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Landing_Skipper

Manual AA and Dual Purpose Guns

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Manual AA increases DPS by 100% against a targeted squad for guns 85mm and bigger.  

What about Sims’ main battery dual-purpose Guns?  Does Manual AA double their DPS as well?  And Atlanta’s 127s?

I think I just found the answer in LittleWhiteMouse’s Atlanta review:  

Looks like Manual AA does double dual purpose gun AA output. Yee hah!

I haven’t spent a lot of time focusing on AA builds in this game.  With the recent uptick in CV populations at higher Tiers I’ve been looking at it more.  I re-spec’d my Minotaur captain from AFT to Manual AA the other day and was surprised.  I thought she went medieval on planes before!  Oh, the range went down from 8.6 to 7.2 and that is significant. But doubling that long range aura DPS to 236 works wonders on enemy planes. 

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IT would be nice if you could combine these manual secondary and manual AA two into one but reduce the effect by 50% as a concession.

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yes, it works on any gun listed in the ships aa section that is greater than 85mm (iirc).   This includes pretty much every DP gun in the game.  

On some ships its less worth taking than AFT, if the DPS is low for the DP mounts because you're only gaining 70% on the DP mounts vs not having MFCAA.  On boats like sims/atl, where almost all of the AA DPS is in the DP mounts, then it is VERY worthwhile. 

 

 

Edited by AnimaL21

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6 minutes ago, landedkiller said:

IT would be nice if you could combine these manual secondary and manual AA two into one but reduce the effect by 50% as a concession.

If that was the case it would not be worth taking.   I already get +30% without taking manual aa.  If its only worth +50% instead of +100% to dps, 20% is a really MEH increase for a 4 point skill. 

Edited by AnimaL21

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1 hour ago, AnimaL21 said:

If that was the case it would not be worth taking.   I already get +30% without taking manual aa.  If its only worth +50% instead of +100% to dps, 20% is a really MEH increase for a 4 point skill. 

If manual secondaries stays as is, and the manual aa drops, and you get both for 4 points, I think that would be a pretty good deal.

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Just now, cometguy said:

If manual secondaries stays as is, and the manual aa drops, and you get both for 4 points, I think that would be a pretty good deal.

Not if you're a DD AA'er, or any ship with totally MEH secondaries.  

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Just now, AnimaL21 said:

Not if you're a DD AA'er, or any ship with totally MEH secondaries.  

Tweak the percent and caliber of guns it works on then. 60%? Don't have a range of AA gun caliber in mind off hand. But I think it would help a lot more people than it would hurt.

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42 minutes ago, cometguy said:

Tweak the percent and caliber of guns it works on then. 60%? Don't have a range of AA gun caliber in mind off hand. But I think it would help a lot more people than it would hurt.

 

Only way I'd spend on it is if it worked on 3"/50's. Then DM becomes viable with it, and WORCESTER will be here soon, too. :cap_rambo:

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3 minutes ago, LT_Rusty_SWO said:

 

Only way I'd spend on it is if it worked on 3"/50's. Then DM becomes viable with it, and WORCESTER will be here soon, too. :cap_rambo:

Lol, and this is why CVs are so powerful. So many people only willing to invest in AA if it would make it ridiculously overpowered.

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5 minutes ago, cometguy said:

Lol, and this is why CVs are so powerful. So many people only willing to invest in AA if it would make it ridiculously overpowered.

 

Perhaps I should clarify.

I don't mean that DES MOINES only becomes viable for AA or for play if it's ridiculously overpowered. I mean that, with only the 127's affected, your 100% gain from the 4-point skill takes you from 468.6 to 559.2. This is only a 19% gain in DPS. Spending the 4 points on AFT instead, on the other hand, increases your AA range by 20%. This gives you a net effect of almost 50% extra in the area you can cover with your AA guns. For me, there's no real contest here on which one is more useful, especially if I'm providing area defense for my team.

If the manual AA skill affected the 3"/50's as well, then you go from 468.6 up to 894.2, which is a 90% increase in overall DPS. At that point, it would be worth it, in my estimation, to take manual AA control instead of something else nice to have, like concealment or AFT.

 

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4 hours ago, LT_Rusty_SWO said:

 

Perhaps I should clarify.

I don't mean that DES MOINES only becomes viable for AA or for play if it's ridiculously overpowered. I mean that, with only the 127's affected, your 100% gain from the 4-point skill takes you from 468.6 to 559.2. This is only a 19% gain in DPS. Spending the 4 points on AFT instead, on the other hand, increases your AA range by 20%. This gives you a net effect of almost 50% extra in the area you can cover with your AA guns. For me, there's no real contest here on which one is more useful, especially if I'm providing area defense for my team.

If the manual AA skill affected the 3"/50's as well, then you go from 468.6 up to 894.2, which is a 90% increase in overall DPS. At that point, it would be worth it, in my estimation, to take manual AA control instead of something else nice to have, like concealment or AFT.

 

I see no reason to not take both for DM since the effect stacks. AA is one of her strengths. Just as well to maximize it.  I don't see CVs more than 1 per 4 games or so, but the investment is well worth it to take them out of the equation for those games and the coverage helps your allies a lot as well. 

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14 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

I see no reason to not take both for DM since the effect stacks. AA is one of her strengths. Just as well to maximize it.  I don't see CVs more than 1 per 4 games or so, but the investment is well worth it to take them out of the equation for those games and the coverage helps your allies a lot as well. 

 

AA is a strength, sure, but the points that I'd spend on manual AA are simply too valuable to leave there with how small the benefit is compared to the cost and the relative rarity of CV's in T10 matches. Survivability expert or Superintendent or Demolitions Expert or ... there's all sorts of things to spend the points on that are useful in every battle, and I can make more of a team contribution in more battles by staying alive and putting out damage than by taking a very situational upgrade that is useful on only relatively rare occasions.

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Manual AA is why it lets some DDs like Kidd, Akizuki, Fletcher, Gearing surprise some CVs big time when they think they got an easy attack going on.  Toss in Defensive Fire and that surprise quickly turns into "WTH just happened to my planes?"

1 hour ago, Tzarevitch said:

I see no reason to not take both for DM since the effect stacks. AA is one of her strengths. Just as well to maximize it.  I don't see CVs more than 1 per 4 games or so, but the investment is well worth it to take them out of the equation for those games and the coverage helps your allies a lot as well. 

Your team's BBs and DDs will appreciate it also.

 

Everybody thinks AA isn't important.  That is, until Midway, Kaga, Enterprise, Taiho, Hakuryu are coming for you.  Then they come to boards and complain why the AA they didn't spec for didn't stop or hinder the bomber attack.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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If DP guns are shooting at airplanes, how is it that they can simultaneously shoot at surface targets? I'm not complaining, I do very well in the Atlanta and have no desire to see the mechanic changed, it just seems a little odd, even for an arcade game that won't allow different turrets to engage different targets.

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3 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Manual AA is why it lets some DDs like Kidd, Akizuki, Fletcher, Gearing surprise some CVs big time when they think they got an easy attack going on.  Toss in Defensive Fire and that surprise quickly turns into "WTH just happened to my planes?"

Your team's BBs and DDs will appreciate it also.

 

Everybody thinks AA isn't important.  That is, until Midway, Kaga, Enterprise, Taiho, Hakuryu are coming for you.  Then they come to boards and complain why the AA they didn't spec for didn't stop or hinder the bomber attack.

That's my feeling. If it wards the CV's planes off of me and my allies, on the games that a CV appears it was worth every penny. They test the AA bubble, and when it opens up at max range and starts downing planes, they go elsewhere. It also gives my allied CV a large safe area for his planes. 

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3 hours ago, _Starbuck said:

If DP guns are shooting at airplanes, how is it that they can simultaneously shoot at surface targets? I'm not complaining, I do very well in the Atlanta and have no desire to see the mechanic changed, it just seems a little odd, even for an arcade game that won't allow different turrets to engage different targets.

It would be nice for DP gun to have to choose between air or ground targets when in such a situation but the way WG handles things I'm guessing it would involve an absurd amount of rework.

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If a gun is listed in the AA tab and fits the listed criteria, it counts. I don't understand why this is so confusing. 

 

As to the people confused about how a DP gun can shoot at both targets, main guns are controlled by projectiles, AA guns are controlled ENTIRELY by RNG, different calculation systems therefore both can play. 

Edited by TheNargacuga

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There's no confusion about anything, especially since the game mechanics are painfully simple in such instances, it just seems odd from a reality check standpoint. I think I would have gone a different route, where the DP guns would be slaved exclusively to Anti-Aircraft fire control anytime an enemy aircraft is manually targeted. Deselect the target, or turn off AA, and the DP guns are once more available for surface action. But it's an arcade game and about as complicated as a block of wood, so what does it matter? I was merely making idle observations to pass the time.

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That's your problem starbuck, throw any and all belief of logic and reality out of this game. And it really REALLY does not matter what you would have done as you are not in control and that idea will be chewed apart by wargaming's higher ups for being too complicated for their precious russian playerbase. 

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Eh, not so much a problem. I'm pretty much playing in a stress-free zone; nothing much bothers me and it's all good. I just like to talk and express my wandering thoughts. Maybe one of my ideas will spark another, better idea for someone else. It's been known to happen, but not if we don't say something. Of course, I'm reminded of the old adage, be careful what you wish for...

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22 hours ago, AnimaL21 said:

If that was the case it would not be worth taking.   I already get +30% without taking manual aa.  If its only worth +50% instead of +100% to dps, 20% is a really MEH increase for a 4 point skill. 

 

The 30% you get from click focusing without manual AA stays as a seperate multiplier even if you have manual AAA. Manual AAAA does not replace it.

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4 hours ago, Carl said:

The 30% you get from click focusing without manual AA stays as a seperate multiplier even if you have manual AAA. Manual AAAA does not replace it.

lFOj8oz.jpg

Awesome to know, thank you sir! 

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Thank LWM she was the one that worked it out AFAIK. I just know about it :Smile-_tongue:.

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Just now, Carl said:

Thank LWM she was the one that worked it out AFAIK. I just know about it :Smile-_tongue:.

I wish the dynamic DPS calculations when you press H would show the effect of manual targeting and MFCAA.  It shows the multiplier take place when DFAA is activated, dont know why it would be so hard to display realtime dps.  

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