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RagingxMarmoset

At what tier in the German BB line should I start looking at a secondary build?

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I'm nearly done with König and wondering when I should specializing a captain and selecting modules to help with secondaries. I have an 11 point captain now, I'd think 15-17 by the time I reach Bismarck. Should I be starting in on it now?

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You should start training your captain in that direction now.

I made some adjustments in my ships at Tier 7, but Bismarck is where this really starts to work well.

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Damage from secondaries will still be incidental, the majority of your damage will come from your main guns. Don't focus on your secondaries at the expense of those.

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You can start thinking of them at T7, but like Lert Said, take care of the Mains first.  Scharn and Gneis can push out to 8km.

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6 minutes ago, YeOldeTraveller said:

You should start training your captain in that direction now.

I made some adjustments in my ships at Tier 7, but Bismarck is where this really starts to work well.

I totally agree. I did the same and it worked out well. Secondary range is vastly improved in tier 7 so I started working towards the captain skills for secondary build and once I unlocked Bismarck I moved my captain to it. If you intend to keep your t7 and captain on it then you could wait till t8. 

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The bonus that manual fire gives gets a significant boost once you get to tier 7. Low tiers don't get the same boost as higher. That and the Gnies is the first ship where you really are gonna be pushing in close and dishing out some serious carnage

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If I had to play German BBs, I'd do it right away, because I can't hit anything with a German BB. But since I don't have to play German BBs, I don't.

If you can hit things with your mains, I'd say tier 7 and 8 are good tiers, but may want to rethink it for tier 9 and 10, as getting in that close tends to happen less frequently there, without serious repercussions.

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36 minutes ago, Lert said:

Damage from secondaries will still be incidental, the majority of your damage will come from your main guns. Don't focus on your secondaries at the expense of those.

Secondaries are great and do a lot of damage in some situations.  But they have a major psychological effect that can't be discounted.   A lot of people don't like getting hit by them.  The extra fires that can happen.  Other things you can adjust via skills (by the player) but can't add secondary range by how you play need captain skills for that.

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Aim to have a secondary build by the time the captain you've hopefully been moving up with the ships ends up in T8. 

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46 minutes ago, YeOldeTraveller said:

You should start training your captain in that direction now.

I made some adjustments in my ships at Tier 7, but Bismarck is where this really starts to work well.

If you play a lot of Ops, you want Gneisenau with at least AFT and MFCS, as well as the secondary upgrade.

With those, the ship is a force of nature vs. AI....

 

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I did it in my Bayern, OP, but ignorant of several facts already posted on this page.

95% chance you really want Manual Fire Control for your secondaries.  On the off chance you're like me, and don't trust yourself to turn them on in the middle of shooting mains, watching positioning, targeting aircraft and dodging torpedoes plus you like it when secondaries fire off both sides of your ship - it can be viable to leave it off.  I sacrifice a lot of damage potential from my secondaries this way, but it works for me.  (All of you who are going to tell me I'm stupid for this, go right ahead, but you're not gonna change my mind.  I've repeatedly proven to myself in battle that it works for me.)

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I started out with nassau and i would say T3 worked pretty well. Great for self defense and when you get to t5 it works a lot to help with cyclones

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19 secondary kills with Kaiser. I brawl with German BBs whenever I can and secondary build really helps. Don't really play anything above Bayern though.

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5 hours ago, RagingxMarmoset said:

I'm nearly done with König and wondering when I should specializing a captain and selecting modules to help with secondaries. I have an 11 point captain now, I'd think 15-17 by the time I reach Bismarck. Should I be starting in on it now?

T8 is really the first place it's worth anything and with the current meta, secondary builds are far from ideal.

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GK with Secondary build is still ridiculous. I think I did like 60 or 70k the other day in Secondary damage one round. it is a major skill point investment though. 

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To answer the question...  I started noticing secondaries with Bayern.  Gneissenau is when they start getting useful.  T8-T10 they are deadly.  

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Every German BB has the best secondaries for their tier.  Only in Tier IX-X French BBs do you actually start seeing competition in this department.  They're all good candidates for secondaries build, especially from Tier VIII on, but the meta changes quite a bit in a Tier VIII-X match.

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Since going with a secondary build on my German t8-10 BB's they've become my favorite BB's to play. I very much enjoy firing on multiple ships at the same time. 

 

Not one of my better battles in the first one but I did get a lot of secondary hits.

image.thumb.png.32c4d1119ccb56ad2ce8428aa05a52c1.png

image.thumb.png.b22f98ac05d862f249e83fe439ee00a5.png

image.thumb.png.aa393b0c7b652262544eea6137099a9d.png

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5 hours ago, RagingxMarmoset said:

I'm nearly done with König and wondering when I should specializing a captain and selecting modules to help with secondaries. I have an 11 point captain now, I'd think 15-17 by the time I reach Bismarck. Should I be starting in on it now?

You should be building your captains for the desired end-state right from the beginning, given it costs 500 gold to re-spec them later (unless there is a special, which happens but is fairly rare).

IMO, going for secondaries is worthwhile from about Tier 7 with the Gneisenau.  

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With the rise of armor piercing dive bombers, you should also consider an AA build.

 

Edit:  It can be ridiculously easy to nuke a german BB with my Enterprise.

Edited by db4100
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In my pics above there are 14 kills, 7 of which were secondary kills. That's worth the points to me. 

Few of my ships from any nation have an AA build.  An AA build is only useful if there are CV's in the battle and the enemy CV targets you.  A secondary build is useful in all battles.......But only if you use them!!!!!!!

Frustration in my last battle a little while ago. Late in the battle when things are looking bad I try to cap B in my Tirpitz. That didn't go well and after I sank I look over the map and there is our 50%HP GK sitting still, sniping behind an island 20+km away from the enemy.  

 

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Based on what I've read here, I think I'll start pushing toward secondary skills once I have Bayern unlocked. Thank you all for you input.

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8 hours ago, Skpstr said:

If you play a lot of Ops, you want Gneisenau with at least AFT and MFCS, as well as the secondary upgrade.

With those, the ship is a force of nature vs. AI....

100% agree.

 

If you only play COOP/MOTWs (I farm MOTW for Credits and Capt XP) in your clan like I/we do, the Gneisenau and Sharnhorst are great for these. The secondaries do a lot of damage on DDs & Cruisers and cause a lot of fire damage to BBs.

 

For general COOP play, focusing BBs with manual fire control is all about lighting fires, DDs/Cruisers you kill them with both fire and direct damage. If their HP is low, I focus my secondaries on them till their dead whilst focusing my mains on other targets with more health. If you get good at this, you can do as much as 1/4 to 1/3 of your overall damage as fire on a BB.

 

Best ship IMO for a high performing secondary build is the Alsace. Close runners up are the TX German and French ships. Honourable mention is Bismarck/Torpitz if you are top tier as your secondaries really to rip up Cruisers/DDs in lower tiers.

 

In relation to T9/T10 Frenchies, their very high secondary fire chance and very high Rate of Fire make them the best IMO as secondary fire starters. Also, secondary builds buff AA and the Alsaces AA is far better than the T9 German ship (I rarely play it now). Highest amount of fire damage Ive ever achieved in this game via secondaries in COOP was with this ship (57k damage).

Edited by CC123

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