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What could had been the 3rd Yamato class battleship

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Info-Shinano (信濃), was an aircraft carrier built by the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) during World War II, the largest such built up to that time. Laid down in May 1940 as the third of the Yamato-class battleships, Shinano's partially complete hull was ordered to be converted to a carrier following Japan's disastrous loss of four fleet carriers at the Battle of Midway in mid-1942.

More in depth info-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_aircraft_carrier_Shinano

Japanese aircraft carrier Shinano.jpg What tier would this ship be classified if it was added to World of Warships?

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I can't remember the exact numbers but its operational loadout was actually rather low even though it carried a huge number of planes. It's real mission was to bring planes to the front line carriers. The biggest problem for the Japanese though was the loss of trained pilots which meant that by the end of the war most of the pilots they had were barely trained at all and were easy kills even for the new US pilots who had thousands of hours of training before being sent to combat.

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21 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

I can't remember the exact numbers but its operational loadout was actually rather low even though it carried a huge number of planes. It's real mission was to bring planes to the front line carriers. The biggest problem for the Japanese though was the loss of trained pilots which meant that by the end of the war most of the pilots they had were barely trained at all and were easy kills even for the new US pilots who had thousands of hours of training before being sent to combat.

It was not just lack of trained pilots. By 1943 U.S. fighter aircraft in the Pacific were far superior to anything Japan could put in the air. By far. It became a Turkey Shoot. 

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5 minutes ago, dmckay said:

It was not just lack of trained pilots. By 1943 U.S. fighter aircraft in the Pacific were far superior to anything Japan could put in the air. By far. It became a Turkey Shoot. 

It was more the lack of pilots as even though outdated the updated Zero's with self sealing tanks were still capable and dangerous opponents when flown by an experienced pilot.

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1 hour ago, BrushWolf said:

I can't remember the exact numbers but its operational loadout was actually rather low even though it carried a huge number of planes. It's real mission was to bring planes to the front line carriers. The biggest problem for the Japanese though was the loss of trained pilots which meant that by the end of the war most of the pilots they had were barely trained at all and were easy kills even for the new US pilots who had thousands of hours of training before being sent to combat.

IIRC, the real problem here was that the IJN didn't rotate experienced pilots back home to pass on what they'd learned in combat to the trainees.  The US did.  Thus, when the IJN lost 4 of its fleet CV's at Midway, that created a HUGE loss of institutional combat experience that could not be replaced.

 

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10 minutes ago, Crucis said:

IIRC, the real problem here was that the IJN didn't rotate experienced pilots back home to pass on what they'd learned in combat to the trainees.  The US did.  Thus, when the IJN lost 4 of its fleet CV's at Midway, that created a HUGE loss of institutional combat experience that could not be replaced.

 

The US and to a certain extent the British did although they were more lenient about allowing pilots to volunteer long beyond their combat tour. However everyone else tended to keep their pilots in the line until they mentally broke or died which is why the huge kill counts are Axis or Russian.

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Shinano was Japan's tier IX CV way back when.

 

It did not go well, hence why it's no longer in-game.

 

Edit - corrected for my shoddy memory, thanks Sventex.

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13 hours ago, WilylolFederation said:

Info-Shinano (信濃), was an aircraft carrier built by the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) during World War II, the largest such built up to that time. Laid down in May 1940 as the third of the Yamato-class battleships, Shinano's partially complete hull was ordered to be converted to a carrier following Japan's disastrous loss of four fleet carriers at the Battle of Midway in mid-1942.

More in depth info-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_aircraft_carrier_Shinano

Japanese aircraft carrier Shinano.jpg What tier would this ship be classified if it was added to World of Warships?

Tier 9.

y96QsXP.jpg

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13 hours ago, dmckay said:

It was not just lack of trained pilots. By 1943 U.S. fighter aircraft in the Pacific were far superior to anything Japan could put in the air. By far. It became a Turkey Shoot. 

Not entirely true. Both the N1K1 and Ki-84's were extremely well regarded by US Pilots when tested after the war. They also found the J2M2's to be well designed with the only draw back the US pilots had was the lack of rear view however the British Pilots didn't note this issue. Hell, the Ki-84 is regarded as the best aircraft fielded by Japan during the war in large numbers and was found to be capable of going toe to toe with the Spitfire and the late war mustangs with it's high powered engine, good climb and turn rates.

The A7M was an amazingly designed aircraft that didn't see widespread production due to a major earthquake in northern Japan which caused extensive damage to the Factory that was to produce it. This limited the Japanese to keep producing the A6M's for carrier operations; however, by that point in the war carriers were in low numbers and the Naval Air sections were operating mostly on land bases.

As already noted, it really was an issue of Pilots.

Edit: And before someone screams "OH GOD, WHEEEAAAABOOOO" the F8F-1B Bearcat is my single engine BABY! God I love that thing's rate of climb and turn rate.

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15 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

I can't remember the exact numbers but its operational loadout was actually rather low even though it carried a huge number of planes. It's real mission was to bring planes to the front line carriers. The biggest problem for the Japanese though was the loss of trained pilots which meant that by the end of the war most of the pilots they had were barely trained at all and were easy kills even for the new US pilots who had thousands of hours of training before being sent to combat.

 

14 hours ago, dmckay said:

It was not just lack of trained pilots. By 1943 U.S. fighter aircraft in the Pacific were far superior to anything Japan could put in the air. By far. It became a Turkey Shoot. 

 

14 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

It was more the lack of pilots as even though outdated the updated Zero's with self sealing tanks were still capable and dangerous opponents when flown by an experienced pilot.

 

14 hours ago, Crucis said:

IIRC, the real problem here was that the IJN didn't rotate experienced pilots back home to pass on what they'd learned in combat to the trainees.  The US did.  Thus, when the IJN lost 4 of its fleet CV's at Midway, that created a HUGE loss of institutional combat experience that could not be replaced.

 

 

1 hour ago, Azumazi said:

Not entirely true. Both the N1K1 and Ki-84's were extremely well regarded by US Pilots when tested after the war. They also found the J2M2's to be well designed with the only draw back the US pilots had was the lack of rear view however the British Pilots didn't note this issue. Hell, the Ki-84 is regarded as the best aircraft fielded by Japan during the war in large numbers and was found to be capable of going toe to toe with the Spitfire and the late war mustangs with it's high powered engine, good climb and turn rates.

The A7M was an amazingly designed aircraft that didn't see widespread production due to a major earthquake in northern Japan which caused extensive damage to the Factory that was to produce it. This limited the Japanese to keep producing the A6M's for carrier operations; however, by that point in the war carriers were in low numbers and the Naval Air sections were operating mostly on land bases.

As already noted, it really was an issue of Pilots.

Edit: And before someone screams "OH GOD, WHEEEAAAABOOOO" the F8F-1B Bearcat is my single engine BABY! God I love that thing's rate of climb and turn rate.

 

Japan could have fielded better or matching fighters against the US. The issue was Japanese manufacturing could not even compare to the factories of the US. Add in the bombing campaigns, the lack of fuel, Japan was at a distinct disadvantage.

The US rotated it's pilots out and sent them stateside. There, they passed on their knowledge to the new pilots training to deploy. US Pilots knew their machines, and how to get the best out of them. Through the use of captured and recovered aircraft, the US pilots learned what the Japanese planes could and could not do. It also allowed American manufacturers to design aircraft to counter them.

 

Yes, Japan did capture American and British aircraft. Yes they tried to make airplanes to counter them. The problem was they did not have the ability to mass produce those aircraft like the US could. They were not able to make the high performance engines they needed for those aircraft in significant numbers, and thus had to use alternative engines.

As has been said, they also did not rotate pilots back to home to train the next group. Like Germany, the Japanese pilots flew until they were injured, sick, or died. The Japanese pilots were lucky to have more then a few hundred hours of flight time. Meanwhile comparable US pilots were being trained by combat veterans and possibly even flying against them in training.

 

Those Japanese aircraft being tested after the war were also flown by US Combat veterans. Experienced flyers who knew how to handle high performance aircraft. It's possible the US pilots were able to get more out of the planes due to the US testing then the Japanese could during their wartime testing.

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4 hours ago, Azumazi said:

Not entirely true. Both the N1K1 and Ki-84's were extremely well regarded by US Pilots when tested after the war. They also found the J2M2's to be well designed with the only draw back the US pilots had was the lack of rear view however the British Pilots didn't note this issue. Hell, the Ki-84 is regarded as the best aircraft fielded by Japan during the war in large numbers and was found to be capable of going toe to toe with the Spitfire and the late war mustangs with it's high powered engine, good climb and turn rates.

The A7M was an amazingly designed aircraft that didn't see widespread production due to a major earthquake in northern Japan which caused extensive damage to the Factory that was to produce it. This limited the Japanese to keep producing the A6M's for carrier operations; however, by that point in the war carriers were in low numbers and the Naval Air sections were operating mostly on land bases.

As already noted, it really was an issue of Pilots.

Edit: And before someone screams "OH GOD, WHEEEAAAABOOOO" the F8F-1B Bearcat is my single engine BABY! God I love that thing's rate of climb and turn rate.

Good points. However "overall" .....overall....U.S. planes outclassed most Japanese planes but there were indeed, as you point out, some very good Japanese planes.  Low numbers of them was a big handicap however.  The pilot thing also of course was a huge issue.

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On 3/27/2018 at 5:41 PM, BrushWolf said:

It was more the lack of pilots as even though outdated the updated Zero's with self sealing tanks were still capable and dangerous opponents when flown by an experienced pilot.

That's the problem.  They no longer had the "experienced" part with their pilots.  Most of them died in the timeframe of Midway thru the Solomon Islands campaigns.  1942 thru mid 1943, they were butchered, even before the mass service of F6F Hellcats and F4U Corsairs became a thing.  The Hellcat didn't see combat in the Pacific until September 1943.  The Corsair came later in the Solomon Islands area for action in February 1943, but still earlier than the Hellcat.  The IJN's elite avaitors were killed off when the US was still flying F4F Wildcats.

http://www.historynet.com/japans-fatally-flawed-air-forces-in-world-war-ii-2.htm

"By the end of 1943, the army and navy had lost about 10,000 pilots. As American Lt. Gen. George C. Kenney reported to Washington, 'Japan’s originally highly trained crews were superb but they are dead.'"

 

Even in "Japanese Destroyer Captain," Capt Hara mentions the decline of the IJN's aviators in quantity and quality.

 

It's not that Japan couldn't design a good plane with the changing war conditions, but resources and being a bit slow about it didn't help them.  On top of that, they couldn't meet the demands to keep their air forces staffed.  By the time more improved versions of the venerable Zero came into service, it was Mid-1943 and their cadre of elite pilots were dead.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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