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KalishniKat

More Lower Tier Premiums Please

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Only 2 T4 premiums available, both IJN and i have them both. No T5 currently on sale. I'd like to see more introduced or made available. Seems too many T4 and T5 premiums were OP and now we can't get them...Kamikaze, Fujin, Gremaschy, Nikolai, Arkansas B....

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It looks like Varyag, which should be a tier 2-3 Russian cruiser, is going into supertest.  But I'd agree that tier 4 is currently an under-served sweet spot.

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Low tier premiums don't make much money and encourage seal clubbing to the detriment of the long term game. I don't really support them.

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2 minutes ago, mofton said:

Low tier premiums don't make much money and encourage seal clubbing to the detriment of the long term game. I don't really support them.

Lower tier premiums don’t “promote seal clubbing.” Seal clubbers are perfectly capable of farming noobs in tech tree ships. Balanced low tier premiums simply contribute to the game’s diversity, enable players to obtain premium vehicles at a more comfortable price point, and can incentivize the company to pay attention to the balance at all tiers, not just tiers VIII-X.

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Tier 1 introduction to the premium Shop. And the mechanics of how to purchase items.

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Yeah. More great low tier Premiums like Mikasa and Smith.

No. T5 and up maybe.

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22 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

Lower tier premiums don’t “promote seal clubbing.” Seal clubbers are perfectly capable of farming noobs in tech tree ships. Balanced low tier premiums simply contribute to the game’s diversity, enable players to obtain premium vehicles at a more comfortable price point, and can incentivize the company to pay attention to the balance at all tiers, not just tiers VIII-X.

I'm not sure that I can agree with this.  Oh, sure, seal clubbers are, indeed, perfectly capable of doing so in regular ships.  That's not the point.  Premium ships allow you to put a highly skilled captain in them and then club away without the need to develop a great captain.  And to me, this is what "promotes" seal clubbing in low tier premiums.

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problem is, most of the Combat missions personal missions mid tier and above. Now if they return to t4 CMs then I agree more premiums for t4. but for now I just dont see why there is a need for a low tier premium if there is not purpose for them in accomplishing  a mission.

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5 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

Lower tier premiums don’t “promote seal clubbing.” Seal clubbers are perfectly capable of farming noobs in tech tree ships. Balanced low tier premiums simply contribute to the game’s diversity, enable players to obtain premium vehicles at a more comfortable price point, and can incentivize the company to pay attention to the balance at all tiers, not just tiers VIII-X.

People can seal club in anything, but if you offer them cheap premiums to collect then even people who just want a pretty thing will play it. For instance I have 18 games in Vampire making her my second most played T3 simply because WG gave it to me. Premiums also encourage people to bring down their high-tier 19-pt captains without penalty.

WG's so far been pretty poor at low-tier premium balancing, I suspect because it's not much worth their time. Low tier ships seem to require similar modelling, a half-hearted attempt at balancing but then sell for a fraction of the price of a mid-tier one.

I don't really see the point of a low-tier premium, the base XP is so low most of the earnings advantages are meaningless and a mid-tier permacamo seems a better investment to me.

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32 minutes ago, mofton said:

Low tier premiums don't make much money and encourage seal clubbing to the detriment of the long term game. I don't really support them.

Even if one completely ignored the seal clubbing aspects, I completely agree that low tier premiums just aren't money makers because the far lower price point.  And I doubt that low tier premium ships are any less difficult or less time consuming to create than higher tier ships.  So it doesn't seem like there's a big incentive for WG to produce a lot of those low tier premiums.

 

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So many great ships of the dreadnought era would fit at T4 or T5. Also as was mentioned, why do all missions start at T5? How about a little lower tier love? German battlecruisers would rock T4 and T5, along with any of the odd nation BBs like from Austria or South America, not to mention DeRuyter at T5 and Java at T4 Dutch cruisers. With so many "real" ships at T4 to 5 level it would be great to see more..hell, Swedish Sverige would fit, or Spanish BB Espana as a prize for the vast Spanish speaking population. 

Edited by KalishniKat

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For the amount of time it takes the devs to model ships, higher tier premiums offer a better return on their resource investment. Also, WG is always going to encourage people to play higher tiers. See the Missouri and Musashi as examples. 

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5 minutes ago, Kombat_W0MBAT said:

For the amount of time it takes the devs to model ships, higher tier premiums offer a better return on their resource investment. Also, WG is always going to encourage people to play higher tiers. See the Missouri and Musashi as examples. 

This

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1 hour ago, KalishniKat said:

So many great ships of the dreadnought era would fit at T4 or T5. Also as was mentioned, why do all missions start at T5? How about a little lower tier love? German battlecruisers would rock T4 and T5, along with any of the odd nation BBs like from Austria or South America, not to mention DeRuyter at T5 and Java at T4 Dutch cruisers. With so many "real" ships at T4 to 5 level it would be great to see more..hell, Swedish Sverige would fit, or Spanish BB Espana as a prize for the vast Spanish speaking population. 

T4 ships were eligible to run A Taste of Blood (the missions to win the Vampire), but I suspect this is because she is herself Tier 3. But I hear you. I suspect WG are running a "no gain without pain" philosophy - if you want flags, camo and other such juicy prizes, you have to be prepared to play in the big league (T5 and above, where the matchmaking is much tougher).

To quote Captain James T Kirk, talking to his successor, the Enterprise B's captain: "Risk is part of the game if you want to sit in that chair."

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3 hours ago, mofton said:

Low tier premiums don't make much money and encourage seal clubbing to the detriment of the long term game. I don't really support them.

Seal clubbing isn't as big of a problem as people  moving past t4 too quickly.  I'd like to see some more T4 ships, PLUS a cap on captain skills to the first 7 points spent are the only ones active.

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I wouldn't mind more T5 options from the WWII era especially CLs and DDs. I don't feel like playing the older WWI and pre-WWI ships like Omaha enough to buy a premium of one.

Though l will say that going up against 19 pt kamikaze captains when I am grinding up a DD line with 6 point captain can get annoying so I don't mind sticking to my T6 - T8 premiums.

Edited by MasterDiggs

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1 minute ago, crzyhawk said:

Seal clubbing isn't as big of a problem as people  moving past t4 too quickly.  I'd like to see some more T4 ships, PLUS a cap on captain skills to the first 7 points spent are the only ones active.

I'm not sure if T4 is a good enough learning environment to ever prepare people for T5. Seeing T3-T5 is so different from seeing T7's in a T5 that it's pretty easy to miss out on the fundamental lessons you should be learning.

You can't learn to fly a 747 no matter how many hours you spend on the $0.50 fun plane ride outside the supermarket.

I do think inactivating some skill points is reasonable, though if you're used to being up against 7 point T4's and suddenly leap up to seeing 19pt T5's and then 19pt T7's you're probably not going to enjoy it.

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3 minutes ago, mofton said:

I'm not sure if T4 is a good enough learning environment to ever prepare people for T5. Seeing T3-T5 is so different from seeing T7's in a T5 that it's pretty easy to miss out on the fundamental lessons you should be learning.

You can't learn to fly a 747 no matter how many hours you spend on the $0.50 fun plane ride outside the supermarket.

I do think inactivating some skill points is reasonable, though if you're used to being up against 7 point T4's and suddenly leap up to seeing 19pt T5's and then 19pt T7's you're probably not going to enjoy it.

Is it perfect?  No.  It does help a lot though.  Moving back to T4 to play with a RL friend helped me improve my game immensely.  The fact that mistakes are not punished as hard makes a massive difference.  You get a better opportunity to learn without game-ending fear.

 

Nobody's enjoying the nut-kick of going against T7's over 50% of the time in their T5's anyways.

Edited by crzyhawk

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8 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

Is it perfect?  No.  It does help a lot though.  Moving back to T4 to play with a RL friend helped me improve my game immensely.  The fact that mistakes are not punished as hard makes a massive difference.  You get a better opportunity to learn without game-ending fear.

I find the opposite, low tiers makes me play like an overconfident pleb. I start doing dumb things like trying to gun-down cruisers in destroyers on open water, suicide rushing when I shouldn't, rolling into whatever I feel like in a BB knowing I won't get focused too hard, rushing inaccurate BB and showing broadside to torpedo them when a Montana would delete you in that circumstance - very bad training for higher tiers.

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Low tier premiums I have:

  • Tier 2 - Tachibana, Mikasa, Smith, Albany, Emden.  (Tachibana, Albany, and Smith are actually pretty good for T2 ships)
  • Tier 3 - Katori, Aurora, Konig Albert, Campbeltown, Vampire (all are solid at T3.  I know KA was removed for being OP, but my scant 16 games in her haven't made me a believer)
  • Tier 4 - Ishizuchi, Imperator Nikolai (good, and OP)
  • Tier 5 - Kamikaze R, Okhotnik, Marblehead, Murmansk, Oktyabraskaya Revolutsiya, Giulio Cesare,  +4 ARP Kongo clones (marginal, good, and OP mixed in there)

22 low tier premiums.  That's quite a few.  The OP may have been asking to make them more available, as not many currently are.

 

4 hours ago, Crucis said:

Premium ships allow you to put a highly skilled captain in them and then club away without the need to develop a great captain.  And to me, this is what "promotes" seal clubbing in low tier premiums.

Yes, this can certainly be true.  I have seen plenty of 3-man divisions (usually clans) of low-tier premiums, and am pretty confident they were there to seal club and inflate their W/R stats.  If true, that is pretty sad behavior.  I enjoy some of my low tier ships, but honestly can't play many games there because the lack of game understanding by my team mates often gives me a head ache.  It's even worse than seen at T6+...if you can fathom that.

One could also argue, however, that T2&3 could use the population infusion, regardless of intent or ability.

*Edit - in support of my last point, because of this thread I decided to play a game with Konig Albert at 6:30 pm...prime time.  I waited 3 1/2 minutes for a game.

Edited by desmo_2

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Better over-confidence than playing like a whipped cur.  Without confidence, a player won't get anywhere.  They get to t5, and get slammed in the face with a brick and nope out of the game.  That bleeding has to stop.

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3 hours ago, Crucis said:

Even if one completely ignored the seal clubbing aspects, I completely agree that low tier premiums just aren't money makers because the far lower price point.  And I doubt that low tier premium ships are any less difficult or less time consuming to create than higher tier ships.  So it doesn't seem like there's a big incentive for WG to produce a lot of those low tier premiums.

 

Low tier ships make great gifts though.   The taste of blood promotion seemed to be a huge success in getting people to play.  Also, some of the lower tier ships could be easily cloned/modified; the ships do not have to be unique.  Some ideas that are already in game:

- T3 DD John D Ford (stock Clemson)

- T4 DD Kane (Clemson with 5"/51)

- T4 BC Haruna (old stock Kongo)

- T4 BB Prinzregent Luitpold (Konig Albert tiered up)

- T2 CL Amazonas (Brazilian Albany)

- T4 CL Penelope (Huang He)

- T4 CL Raleigh (10 gun Omaha, with pre-war AA)

- T2 cruiser Brisbane (Weymouth)

- T4 cruiser Dehli (Danae)

- T4 cruiser Conrad/Dragon (Danae)

 

Very little work in there, and there are a lot more ships that could be easily done.

 

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I agree with you. I do know of two ships that would be easy, Tier 6 and Tier 7 Premium ships, the old Hull A (Circa 1919) New Mexico Class Battleship and the old Hull A (Circa 1920) Colorado Class Battleship. The World War I era Hull A New Mexico Class Battleship was/ is my absolute favorite ship to play. Being that the old Hull A Colorado Class Battleship is circa 1920, it lacks hit points and AA Guns (As compared to it's 1942 era hull upgrade) could easily moved to Tier 6 with no modifications. I hope both of these ships Wargaming will convert to premium ships and re-release, It would be so easy since they already were in game. 

The Battleship USS Oklahoma (BB-37) would be an excellent Tier 6 premium as well, as it's similar in armor and armament to the battleship USS Arizona (BB-39) which already exists as Tier 6 premium battleship.

USS Ward (DD-139) would be a great Tier 4 Premium ship, The Destroyer Ward fired the first shots of World War II on a Japanese min-submarine just prior to the December 7, 1941 Attack on Pearl Harbor, T.H..

 

UPDATE:

For clarity purposes, A World War I era New Mexico Class battleship premium ship should be the USS Mississippi (BB-41) of 1919. A premium Colorado class battleship of 1920 should be USS Maryland (BB-46), as the upgraded USS West Virginia (BB-48) should emerge as a circa 1944-1945 premium ship.

 

Edited by Ben_CA68

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1 hour ago, crzyhawk said:

Low tier ships make great gifts though.   The taste of blood promotion seemed to be a huge success in getting people to play.  Also, some of the lower tier ships could be easily cloned/modified; the ships do not have to be unique.  Some ideas that are already in game:

- T3 DD John D Ford (stock Clemson)

- T4 DD Kane (Clemson with 5"/51)

- T4 BC Haruna (old stock Kongo)

- T4 BB Prinzregent Luitpold (Konig Albert tiered up)

- T2 CL Amazonas (Brazilian Albany)

- T4 CL Penelope (Huang He)

- T4 CL Raleigh (10 gun Omaha, with pre-war AA)

- T2 cruiser Brisbane (Weymouth)

- T4 cruiser Dehli (Danae)

- T4 cruiser Conrad/Dragon (Danae)

 

Very little work in there, and there are a lot more ships that could be easily done.

 

Honestly, crazy, I am just not a fan of all these damned clones, and am certainly not a fan of the idea of creating even more of them.

 

 

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