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Herr_Reitz

General RoT for non DD players

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For you non-dd players, I thought it might be helpful to start a Rule of Thumb (RoT) thread so you can better understand your role in supporting your team's dds.

  • When you see a DD stalking a red ship and torpedoes are launched, do NOT suddenly start firing upon the dd's target ship.
    If you were already engaged against that ship fine, keep it up. But if you were NOT engaging that ship, don't start, especially if he's not firing on you. Think for a moment - yea, your firing upon that ship will cause it to change course. The dd's torps will no longer be worth the pixels that make them up.
     
  • Support does not mean ride the dd's stern like it's a saddle.
    Support DOES mean stay within a few kilometer and fire on the big ships that are trying to squish your dd out of the match. 

 

tiafyc

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Excellent points.

Another: Radaring the cap that is being taken  by reds when a green DD can shoot, only if they were visible. Can't count how many times a radar-equipped cruiser is within radar range and I have to ask. Often times they  do not even care, as they are busy doing other things.

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General rule of thumb for DD captains.

1. Get comfortable with predictive torps. Understand common choke points and use them. Don't expect teammates to hold their fire for your torps that aren't guaranteed to hit.

2. Supporting your team does not mean sitting at max torp range stealth dropping torps in hopes of long range hits.

 

Get off your high horse OP. I'm not holding shots for anyone unless it is 100% clear to me that the target is going to take hits form the torps. Otherwise, I'm dropping rounds on his deck.

Edited by smf117
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Sure, I'll stick with ya little buggers and support you with gun fire a few kilometeres behind you. But can you not be so trigger happy poping that smoke of yours? You dab that T key, and you left me blind in front of a group of angry enemies...

Just, don't bother poping smoke unless you can actively use it. You will die by torp in smoke anyway, we all know how bad your game awareness is :Smile_playing:

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1 hour ago, Herr_Reitz said:

When you see a DD stalking a red ship and torpedoes are launched, do NOT suddenly start firing upon the dd's target ship.
If you were already engaged against that ship fine, keep it up. But if you were NOT engaging that ship, don't start, especially if he's not firing on you. Think for a moment - yea, your firing upon that ship will cause it to change course. The dd's torps will no longer be worth the pixels that make them up.

So if all the torpedoes miss, then I've just given said ship a free pass on taking any damage whatsoever.  

Although I see your point here, I'm not going to hold off on vulnerable targets if it is in my team's best interests to put pressure on them.

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What about the dd players that get between me and a BB I'm firing on and steals the kill? You got any words of advice for them?

1 hour ago, Herr_Reitz said:

When you see a DD stalking a red ship and torpedoes are launched, do NOT suddenly start firing upon the dd's target ship.

 

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There is always the counter point that the ship can get fires going on the target ship causing the ship to burn its Repair so when/if a torp hits and causes flooding, the DD gets LOTS of damage. The distraction might even keep the target from reacting as fast to the torps.

As a DD main I would never expect a friendly to hold fire on a target because I launched torps at it. Most of the time I wouldn't expect the friendly to even notice that I have fired or who I fired at until the torps show up in his gunsight. My biggest beef is the guys that go in for a knife fight making it impossible for me to launch torps at all from my perfect flanking position. Hate having to wait until the friendly is sunk before launching.

One of my jobs is spotting so if I just lit up an island camper, I will assume (hope)  my team will start blasting away no matter how juicy a torp target he is. The fire may drive the target out into the open for the team to kill him or cause him to hug the island even closer, making him an even better target. I would love to get the kill but want the win even more.

 

Edited by Sabot_100

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44 minutes ago, The_first_harbinger said:

Sure, I'll stick with ya little buggers and support you with gun fire a few kilometeres behind you. But can you not be so trigger happy poping that smoke of yours? You dab that T key, and you left me blind in front of a group of angry enemies...

Just, don't bother poping smoke unless you can actively use it. You will die by torp in smoke anyway, we all know how bad your game awareness is :Smile_playing:

If the DD is dropping smoke in front of you and continuing past it, but staying close, they are actually shielding you.  They will continue to illuminate targets for you to blat against, but the target wont see you.  I have done this with a few BBs, they stayed in my smoke while I hid on the other side of the cap out of detection range as they rained fire down on the enemies that thought there was only a little DD in the smoke.  Sometimes I would intentionally exit the smoke, get detected and run around the backside of an island, or until undetected, while the BBs were getting into position.  Enemy thought the smoke was safe until they saw 6 tons of hot steel coming at them and gave up a few juicy broadsides...:Smile-_tongue:

 

Now if the DD dropped smoke in the middle of nowhere and hit the turbos and ran for the other side of the map then I would agree with you.:Smile_izmena:

RIch C.

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2 minutes ago, Crij said:

I have done this with a few BBs, they stayed in my smoke while I hid on the other side of the cap out of detection range as they rained fire down on the enemies that thought there was only a little DD in the smoke.

Current meta makes it generally useless to smoke BBs unless they are very far from the enemy. Even CAs can be dicey and a waste of smoke.

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5 minutes ago, Crij said:

If the DD is dropping smoke in front of you and continuing past it, but staying close, they are actually shielding you.  They will continue to illuminate targets for you to blat against, but the target wont see you.  I have done this with a few BBs, they stayed in my smoke while I hid on the other side of the cap out of detection range as they rained fire down on the enemies that thought there was only a little DD in the smoke.  Sometimes I would intentionally exit the smoke, get detected and run around the backside of an island, or until undetected, while the BBs were getting into position.  Enemy thought the smoke was safe until they saw 6 tons of hot steel coming at them and gave up a few juicy broadsides...:Smile-_tongue:

 

Now if the DD dropped smoke in the middle of nowhere and hit the turbos and ran for the other side of the map then I would agree with you.:Smile_izmena:

RIch C.

I never see dds do that unless they are my platoon mate :Smile_playing:

Most of the time they get into a cap, either smokes right away, or smokes up the moment the see a red pixel on the horizon. I either die from a hail of crossfire, or kites away and plays like a average cruiser, dd gets torped in smoke or gets radared, and types in chat "useless team no support"

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23 minutes ago, Ghostdog1355 said:

What about the dd players that get between me and a BB I'm firing on and steals the kill? You got any words of advice for them?

 

Its a forum - you already expressed it - but yes, don't do it... unless of course you're 20km away from the BB and the dd player cannot see you firing. 

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6 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

Current meta makes it generally useless to smoke BBs unless they are very far from the enemy. Even CAs can be dicey and a waste of smoke.

Thinking back they might have been cruisers, but if the smoke is placed covering a gap between 2 close islands.  their sterns can hang out the back of the smoke and they won't be seen, assuming they stop before their bow pierces the enemy's side of the smoke, and none of the enemy come around the islands.  All I know is it worked and 2 friendlies were hidden and sank 3 enemies that day.  IIRC I was in the Nicolas and my Captain has the smoke radius training.

Edited by Crij
typo

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2 minutes ago, The_first_harbinger said:

I never see dds do that unless they are my platoon mate :Smile_playing:

Most of the time they get into a cap, either smokes right away, or smokes up the moment the see a red pixel on the horizon. I either die from a hail of crossfire, or kites away and plays like a average cruiser, dd gets torped in smoke or gets radared, and types in chat "useless team no support"

 

Acutally, about 70% of my Gearing smokes are exactly for that purpose... when my team's approaching a cap i'm approaching, I'll hit boost and lay down a very long streak of Gearing smoke... lasts what, nearly two minutes? I push on beyond the smoke to scout for them. 

Unfortunately, most of the time, they won't fire on the reds because they don't wanna be detected. But at least their approach is smoked. 

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4 minutes ago, The_first_harbinger said:

I never see dds do that unless they are my platoon mate :Smile_playing:

Most of the time they get into a cap, either smokes right away, or smokes up the moment the see a red pixel on the horizon. I either die from a hail of crossfire, or kites away and plays like a average cruiser, dd gets torped in smoke or gets radared, and types in chat "useless team no support"

If they do that then they should get blatted.

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2 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

 

Acutally, about 70% of my Gearing smokes are exactly for that purpose... when my team's approaching a cap i'm approaching, I'll hit boost and lay down a very long streak of Gearing smoke... lasts what, nearly two minutes? I push on beyond the smoke to scout for them. 

Unfortunately, most of the time, they won't fire on the reds because they don't wanna be detected. But at least their approach is smoked. 

remind me to platoon with you more often :Smile_honoring:

1 minute ago, Crij said:

If they do that then they should get blatted.

Prepare my internet stupid stick:fish_viking:

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1 hour ago, smf117 said:

General rule of thumb for DD captains.

1. Get comfortable with predictive torps. Understand common choke points and use them. Don't expect teammates to hold their fire for your torps that aren't guaranteed to hit.

2. Supporting your team does not mean sitting at max torp range stealth dropping torps in hopes of long range hits.

 

Get off your high horse OP. I'm not holding shots for anyone unless it is 100% clear to me that the target is going to take hits form the torps. Otherwise, I'm dropping rounds on his deck.

I'm not on a high horse. You're exactly the person I'm addressing - nothing is 100% clear unless the torps are five feet from the ship. You go ahead and play your style then because obviously you are a team player. 

See what ponders me is you'd say that when at most there are ten other red ships you could be firing upon. How often when you "drop shells on their deck" do you sink them, as opposed to then having taken torps broadside and THEN your shells landing on their deck? 

Each their own. I'm just offering advice - you don't want it don't use it. 

Edited by Herr_Reitz
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1 minute ago, The_first_harbinger said:

remind me to platoon with you more often :Smile_honoring:

3 minutes ago, Crij said:

Thanks - that's nice of you. :cap_fainting:

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I play lots of stealthy IJN DDs so when capping I often pop smoke to fool the enemy into thinking I'm at that spot but instead I move. If a DD nearby torps the smoke I know I can close in to torp him without worrying about him torping me back.

Hope that makes sense

 

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33 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

There is always the counter point that the ship can get fires going on the target ship causing the ship to burn its Repair so when/if a torp hits and causes flooding, the DD gets LOTS of damage. The distraction might even keep the target from reacting as fast to the torps.

As a DD main I would never expect a friendly to hold fire on a target because I launched torps at it. Most of the time I wouldn't expect the friendly to even notice that I have fired or who I fired at until the torps show up in his gunsight. My biggest beef is the guys that go in for a knife fight making it impossible for me to launch torps at all from my perfect flanking position. Hate having to wait until the friendly is sunk before launching.

One of my jobs is spotting so if I just lit up an island camper, I will assume (hope)  my team will start blasting away no matter how juicy a torp target he is. The fire may drive the target out into the open for the team to kill him or cause him to hug the island even closer, making him an even better target. I would love to get the kill but want the win even more.

 

I don't mind them helping in the kill itself, it's when the get between when I'm less than about 8km from the target us that bothers me.

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On 27/03/2018 at 12:17 PM, The_first_harbinger said:

I never see dds do that unless they are my platoon mate :Smile_playing:

Most of the time they get into a cap, either smokes right away, or smokes up the moment the see a red pixel on the horizon. I either die from a hail of crossfire, or kites away and plays like a average cruiser, dd gets torped in smoke or gets radared, and types in chat "useless team no support"

Not much different than when a DD dies due to lack of support and some back camper that would be the last guy to help out at the cap complains "crap DD, no support".

 

As DD I no longer dive into any caps, you have to know where the enemy ships are first, especially radar ones. My "support" just needs to deal with it and get out of 1/4 throttle a little sooner. Many ships just treat DD as the guy that spots for them so they can throw darts at 18km from relative safety, while blaming RNG and dispersion for their bad play choices. Those players aren't helping either.

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Posted to wrong topic

Edited by Crij

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On 3/27/2018 at 9:55 AM, Ghostdog1355 said:

What about the dd players that get between me and a BB I'm firing on and steals the kill? You got any words of advice for them?

 

Hey

Who cares; we all have had kills stolen from us, but a dead enemy ship helps your team including you since it won't be given out anymore damage.  To whine a about someone taking a kill is selfish, just be glad he's dead and onto the next target.  Just last week I was so close to a Kraken and shells were in bound to take him out when my Div. partner kill secured the enemy, was I disappointed, yes, but so what, we won and I was still top of the board.

 

Pete

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On 3/31/2018 at 1:35 PM, Canadatron said:

Not much different than when a DD dies due to lack of support and some back camper that would be the last guy to help out at the cap complains "crap DD, no support".

 

As DD I no longer dive into any caps, you have to know where the enemy ships are first, especially radar ones. My "support" just needs to deal with it and get out of 1/4 throttle a little sooner. Many ships just treat DD as the guy that spots for them so they can throw darts at 18km from relative safety, while blaming RNG and dispersion for their bad play choices. Those players aren't helping either.

Hey

Unfortunately there is more and more lack of support from a great many BB's anymore and it's getting worse.  Too many times they don't mind DD's going into caps but then do nothing to support them.  They would rather sit back at or near spawn and try to snipe OR just let the cruisers support the DD's, then they complaint about why our DD's and cruisers get taken out.  I see it all the time, then Wargaming doesn't help since we have HE spamming everything, AP bombs, DWT, for damaging the one nation of BB's (Germans) that were known to be brawlers who's captain would support into caps but cant as well as they used to.  So now everyone lacks fortitude to play the objective of getting caps and has to do it on their own without real team support.  Just look at almost every game and how half way through the game, how many of your BB's are still sitting near your base/spawn area.  Sorry for the rant but geez BB drivers grow a pair!

 

Pete 

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