Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
44_percenter

Nerf islands

27 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Members
559 posts
2,601 battles

So the reason I came to the forums tonight, the ship upgrade called Target Acquisition System Modification 1. When you click on the upgrade button, a line of text says "increases the maximum distance at which targets are acquired." But that is a lie! It increases the MINIMUM distance at which targets are acquired! Minimum is not maximum. The minimum is of course 2 km, which the upgrade increases to 3 km. O.k, that's useful on occasion, better than nothing at least. But then it says, "increases spotting range 20%." What the [edited] is spotting range? If it's that thing in the game that when you press H says spotting range: 30 km, then what good is that? Without the 20% increase, it's already way over the border of the map. Does that mean rendering ships spotted by my team out to that distance? I really only need to see spotted ships out to my maximum gun range, really. After that, markers on the minimap are fine. Like when there's a cyclone, ships are marked on the minimap even though you can't see them yourself. Whatever.

Next point, "increases the range at which torpedoes are acquired by 25%." um ok? Point the first, torpedoes are not targets. Point the second, there is a captain skill for acquiring torpedoes farther out. I suppose the two stack, which is nice, but not what the purpose of the upgrade is. Here's what we want to see in that description: "Increases the range at which enemy ships are acquired by 25%" that is all. Torpedoes don't have to be part of it. Spotting range doesn't have to be part of it. If ships can be invisible inside spotting range, then what good does that do? The point is to acquire targets. This upgrade does not help acquire targets until you are practically inside the smoke screen of an enemy dd or cruiser. More importantly, what is the counterplay to the TWO concealment upgrades THAT ACTUALLY WORK? Asking for a friend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,631
[DAKI]
WoWS Wiki Editor
8,213 posts
7,205 battles

Spotting Range is your view range. On any ship that is not a Carrier you can see a cone on the map which shows your field of view. Where this cone ends length-wise, ships are no longer rendered. So you can‘t see them beyond this distance. Seeing those ships provides useful information for yourself.

The Torpedo spotting is a great benefit, because not only does it stack with Vigilance, it also stacks with Hydro. That can add to up to 6km Torpedo spotting on selected ships.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,495
[GWG]
[GWG]
Members
5,996 posts

If you charge an enemy smoke cloud, there is a range you can see through and detect a ship hiding inside.  This also works around pointy islands you can't shoot through.  That is usually 2KM.

The upgrade increases that detection distance to 3KM.

Torpedo detection distance is determined by the 'sending' ship's specification.  This upgrade increases that range.  High Alert further increases that.

And hydro stacks further to both of these.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
638
[VW]
Members
2,429 posts
14,253 battles

they tried nerfing islands, apparently it's called "ocean" but due to the generalized wailing and grinding of teeth they then nerfed the nerfed island map despite it being the greatest AND most relevant one.

Edited by monpetitloup
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
38 posts
3,711 battles
6 hours ago, 44_percenter said:

So the reason I came to the forums tonight, the ship upgrade called Target Acquisition System Modification 1. When you click on the upgrade button, a line of text says "increases the maximum distance at which targets are acquired." But that is a lie! It increases the MINIMUM distance at which targets are acquired! Minimum is not maximum. The minimum is of course 2 km, which the upgrade increases to 3 km.

The maximum distance you can automatically detect ships is 2km. If that was the minimum distance, you wouldn't be able to detect them at less than 2km.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
559 posts
2,601 battles

Alright then, the upgrade needs to add 25% to the minimum distance at which targets are acquired. Even 20% would be worth something. 0% is, well, completely useless. There is still no counterplay to torps from invisible ships, that are in open water not hidden, just out of detection range. Or actually I guess radar is the counter, but I don't have any ships with radar. QQ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
559 posts
2,601 battles
21 hours ago, SireneRacker said:

The Torpedo spotting is a great benefit,

If the Target Acquisition Upgrade Modification added, say, 1.5 km to the detection range of the invisible dd that launched the torps, I wouldn't need to see the torps in the first place. And, added benefit, I could shoot at the dd, and possibly force him to retreat or something. Actually probably not even that, because he'd be notified he was spotted before he rendered on my screen anyway, all it would change would be he couldn't torp from outside his detection range. It's still his choice if I ever see him. And he's still spotting me for all his team's bb's in gun range, that I can't see. WG really goes overboard with the [edited] horizon [edited] mechanic. The laws of physics say light goes both directions equally. If a boat can see me, I can see the boat. One day, I will get a ship with radar, and you will all be sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,201
[SALT]
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters, Beta Testers
3,660 posts
2,989 battles
24 minutes ago, 44_percenter said:

If the Target Acquisition Upgrade Modification added, say, 1.5 km to the detection range of the invisible dd that launched the torps, I wouldn't need to see the torps in the first place. And, added benefit, I could shoot at the dd, and possibly force him to retreat or something. Actually probably not even that, because he'd be notified he was spotted before he rendered on my screen anyway, all it would change would be he couldn't torp from outside his detection range. It's still his choice if I ever see him. And he's still spotting me for all his team's bb's in gun range, that I can't see. WG really goes overboard with the [edited] horizon [edited] mechanic. The laws of physics say light goes both directions equally. If a boat can see me, I can see the boat. One day, I will get a ship with radar, and you will all be sorry.

Considering you average 21000 dmg in a tier 8/9 Battleship, we all seriously doubt that statement. No amount of radar is going to improve your ability to read the mini-map and learn the game mechanics and how to use them to your advantage.

What would help you is going back and playing both Destroyers and Cruisers and actually learning how both classes work so that you improve your BB game play. The reason why you're such food for DD's most of the time is that you probably use predictable game patterns making torpedo runs extremely easy on you. Less getting tunnel visioned into a target and more watching your surroundings and adjusting speed/course a lot makes that difficult to plan.

  • Cool 1
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
559 posts
2,601 battles

Doubt all you want. I don't know what the average potential damage is, but mine is well over a million, some games over 2 million. I don't always get torped, but when I do, I make a forum post about why those mechanics shouldn't be in a retail game. I don't disagree that better playing will help with fighting invisible ships. Rather disappointed that the Target Acquisition Upgrade Modification doesn't help acquire targets except within 3 km. I don't want the concealment upgrade. It doesn't bother me if people stare at my huge bb's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
136
[VIP-2]
Members
814 posts
2,914 battles
5 hours ago, 44_percenter said:

The laws of physics say light goes both directions equally. If a boat can see me, I can see the boat. One day, I will get a ship with radar, and you will all be sorry.

Um no. The spotting ability is correlated to mast height, and size of target. Its not the laws of physics that are the problem. It is more about resolution of image.

Is it easier to see the Empire state building from a car 5km away, or easier to see the car from the building?

Guessing you have never been at sea. Damn hard to see small things, easy to see big ones.

Radar doesnt change this priciple much. Big things are still easier to see there too.

 

 

  • Angry 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
334
[REVY]
Members
1,208 posts
8,746 battles
7 hours ago, 44_percenter said:

 There is still no counterplay to torps from invisible ships, that are in open water not hidden, just out of detection range.

kZdkxx9.gif

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
189
[WOLFB]
Beta Testers
1,456 posts
8,158 battles
7 hours ago, 44_percenter said:

I don't always get torped, but when I do, I make a forum post about why those mechanics shouldn't be in a retail game.

:Smile_popcorn:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
295
[CAST]
Members
1,541 posts
7,995 battles

Think of acquisition from a target perspective rather than a targeter perspective.  If the maximum range a target can be seen in smoke or behind an island is 2km, then the target acquisition module increases that to 3km. 

Spotting range is the maximum distance that you can properly render a ship.  Even if other friendly ships can spot the ship, if they are outside your spotting range, you will not see them.  By increasing your spotting range, you can render those ships.  You still cannot shoot them because they are outside your gun range, but you can see them.  The increase in spotting range isn't applied to cyclones.  It is hard capped at 8km.

Torp acquisition is increased by 25%, so you have more notice when torps approach.  This one is much like vigilance and stacks with it.  If you are a DD hunter it would be a nice feature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
559 posts
2,601 battles

Well, that's great and all, but it's useless. I can't decide if it's more useless or less useless than the alternative, concealment modification. Sneaking around isn't something I feel the need to do in a battleship. Would rather have a choice that is actually an improvement, like maybe a gun upgrade that ISN'T half good and half bad. This is a waste of 3 million credits. If it added at least *something* to normal acquisition range, it wouldn't be useless. Also misleading text like this is why I won't take a chance on engine modification. I have no idea if it will do anything besides get to full speed sooner at the start of the game, which happens 1 time per game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
559 posts
2,601 battles
On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 7:52 AM, Gregor_Marethel said:

The maximum distance you can automatically detect ships is 2km. If that was the minimum distance, you wouldn't be able to detect them at less than 2km.

It doesn't say "automatically". It says "detect". That is the detection range, not the automatic detection range. The upgrade does not add 50%, or 20%, or any %, to the detection range. It only affects the automatic detection range. But that's not what it says. Your logic is flawed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
739
[NWNG]
Members
2,771 posts
4,647 battles

44_percenter is back... HURRAY:Smile_popcorn:

"+50% to range of assured acquisition of enemy ships"

It doesn't say "detect" either. You should improve your reading skill.

Assured Acquisition, also referred to as "Auto-detection" is 2kms, and ignores line of sight. With the Upgrade the Assured Acquisition (AKA AUTO-DETECTION) allows you to spot enemies from 3kms rather than 2kms, regardless of Line of Sight.

"+20% to the acquisition range of torpedoes."

You don't like this bonus... therefore, please be part of my next battle on the enemy team, you'll just fuel my love of killing battleships.

"+20% to spotting range."

Yes, this one sounds useless, but it's really not. The picture in the spoiler comes from the wiki.  That +20% to spotting range would help the destroyer see the battleship.

Spoiler

Diagram_showing_relationship_between_det

Being able to see an enemy fully rendered, allows one to plan ahead. Ready their guns, calculate target's speed, and can even allow for early firing of guns before the lock-on mechanic takes hold... and sure, not locking on means less accurate shots, but I have fired shots well before enemies were in gun range, and managed to get hits. Even got a kill by firing before the lock-on occurs.


But as before with your other posts about game mechanics... LEARN THEM, BEFORE YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT THEM!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
652
[PVE]
Members
1,698 posts
7,332 battles
On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 6:42 AM, monpetitloup said:

they tried nerfing islands, apparently it's called "ocean" but due to the generalized wailing and grinding of teeth they then nerfed the nerfed island map despite it being the greatest AND most relevant one.

This is so true, if they would allow the map Ocean to be more in the rotation, the island issue would not be an issue at all. But the whiners whined about not having any islands to hide behind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53
[RELIC]
Beta Testers
263 posts
14,803 battles
On 3/28/2018 at 2:21 AM, 44_percenter said:

Doubt all you want. I don't know what the average potential damage is, but mine is well over a million, some games over 2 million. I don't always get torped, but when I do, I make a forum post about why those mechanics shouldn't be in a retail game. I don't disagree that better playing will help with fighting invisible ships. Rather disappointed that the Target Acquisition Upgrade Modification doesn't help acquire targets except within 3 km. I don't want the concealment upgrade. It doesn't bother me if people stare at my huge bb's.

After seeing you play, there is no question that there is plenty certain that radar won't save you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,095
[KP]
Beta Testers
2,557 posts
12,334 battles

WG really should make the ocean map more regular, maybe even epicentre on ocean, now that would be fun, also they should make it so if we have 2 ships in the centre cap and you have 1 then the points go up in our favour

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
777 posts
1,515 battles
16 minutes ago, CriMiNaL__ said:

WG really should make the ocean map more regular, maybe even epicentre on ocean, now that would be fun, also they should make it so if we have 2 ships in the centre cap and you have 1 then the points go up in our favour

They have done that before, but because of how many people complained about Ocean being on rotation, eventually staff got sick and tired of it to the point that they caved in and took it off rotation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,095
[KP]
Beta Testers
2,557 posts
12,334 battles
1 minute ago, Ephemeric said:

They have done that before, but because of how many people complained about Ocean being on rotation, eventually staff got sick and tired of it to the point that they caved in and took it off rotation.

WG should of stuck to their guns and told the player base to GROW UP , or have the xp multiplier for ocean give more than it does usually for a win

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
136
[VIP-2]
Members
814 posts
2,914 battles
4 minutes ago, CriMiNaL__ said:

WG should of stuck to their guns and told the player base to GROW UP , or have the xp multiplier for ocean give more than it does usually for a win

I would like to see it returned as well. I made suggestions a few times to merely lower the chances of receiving it, but i like the xp multiplier idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
38 posts
3,711 battles
10 hours ago, 44_percenter said:

It doesn't say "automatically". It says "detect". That is the detection range, not the automatic detection range. The upgrade does not add 50%, or 20%, or any %, to the detection range. It only affects the automatic detection range. But that's not what it says. Your logic is flawed.

My post only addressed the minimum vs maximum complaint you made, I didn't make any claims about the wording of "detect" vs "automatically detect", etc.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
4,375 posts
7,091 battles
On 3/28/2018 at 2:21 AM, 44_percenter said:

I don't know what the average potential damage is, but mine is well over a million, some games over 2 million.

It is not a good stat to determine play.  It is merely the amount of damage you would have taken if the salvos fired at you would have hit.  It counts shells that land within a certain distance from your ship.  The stat can be seriously gamed and for that reason  - means very little.  Some things can be assumed based on the Potential and Damage dealt numbers.   High potential with low damage dealt by you means you rushed in, did little damage to the enemy team, and likely died early.  High potential with high damage dealt would generally mean the person lived longer and helped the team more.  The issue still stands that the potential damage can still be gamed and these are fairly large generalization.  For me in a high tier BB - if I do not do at least 75-80K damage dealt then I did not play well and help the team out in a meaningful way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,662
Members
22,338 posts
5,780 battles
On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 7:19 AM, c3shooter said:

Um no. The spotting ability is correlated to mast height, and size of target. Its not the laws of physics that are the problem. It is more about resolution of image.

Is it easier to see the Empire state building from a car 5km away, or easier to see the car from the building?

Guessing you have never been at sea. Damn hard to see small things, easy to see big ones.

Radar doesnt change this priciple much. Big things are still easier to see there too.

 

 

He's technically right. First thing you see on a ship as it comes over the horizon is the mast. If you have a lookout on the very top of the mast, you would first see the lookout on the top of the other ship's mast, and he would be able to see you as well.

I know what you mean about it being hard to spot small things at sea though, especially when not silhouetted against the horizon.

I think the issue with spotting is that they're using the wrong criteria. Mast height should dictate the spotting distance for both ships involved.

If you want a spotting system where one ship can spot another without being spotted in turn, it should be the bulk of the silhouette that determines distance, with an angled aspect letting you get closer before being spotted, due to a smaller silhouette.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×