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CarbonButtprint

Do you think WTR is a good indication of skill?

Which classes do you think it best measures skill in?  

163 members have voted

  1. 1. Select all that apply

    • Destroyers
      41
    • Cruisers
      52
    • Battleships
      61
    • Aircraft Carriers
      34
    • None of the above
      80
  2. 2. Is it a generally good system to estimate a player's skill?

    • Yes
      55
    • No
      107

155 comments in this topic

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I'm just wondering what other people think about this. In case you didn't know, these are the percentages: 50% damage, 30% kills, 20% winrate, 0% base reset/capture. I think it's a good indication overall, but I wish that the damage value was based off the percent of damage caused to an enemy rather than the raw damage number. 

Edited by CarbonButtprint
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The WTR is not.   Although, the individual break down of statistics based on a daily pull (vs all in WG), is useful to track daily and time specific trends.

Now, warship today is a free site with up/down reliability.   Take it with a grain of salt.

vr,

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WTR is only a bad indicator for bad players who look to either justify or blame others for poor play. When they suffer from Dunning-Kruger syndrome. That being said WTR is nowhere near perfect but it's what we got.

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WTR is an over-glorified damage-meter.  The argument will invariably be made "it's the best we have".  It's still a far cry from passable, never mind good.

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WTR puts way too much emphasis on damage, and is like most attempts to capture a player's skill in a single number heavily subject to attempts to pad it. A stat like it that ignored damage done entirely would at least be better for the first, don't know why it doesn't work that way.

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Wtr can be a good indicator of the person's ability to damage you. But I believe that isn't as important as knowing who to damage, when, and where to be.

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WTR doesn't track the intangible things, the real things that decide the outcome of matches. So, no, WTR isn't a good indicator of real skill. It's really just a decent indicator of damage dealing.

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Take any sort of online stat rating with a grain of salt IYAM. Skill, at least imo, is how well a player is able to adjust and refine their playstyle to fix habitual errors. Take me for instance.

  • I'm having a hard time in Gadjah Mada, so I take a look at my own stats for that ship. 

>WR is looking ok

>Damage is high

>EXP is rather low

>KDR and MBHR is decent

>THR is also pretty good

Looking at these, I am able to make the guess that I'm spending too much time going after to torp BBs with the short 8km torp range and straying too far away from the objectives. So based on this, I look at my playstyle now and adjust it accordingly and play some games to see how it goes. 10 games later, my XP has risen as does my WR, but my KDR and such drops. This can suggest that I need to work on winning my HP trades or maybe improve my positioning still.

 

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FWIW WTR and any other 3rd party rating system is constrained by the limited amount of information WG makes public.

Caps/spotting/tanking/AA etc. aren't considered because the data is not available. It should be said however that those things are (indirectly) represented by the winrate portion of the formula.

WTR is certainly flawed, but it's somewhat useful as a *rough* estimate of skill or measure of personal progress.

...

Edited by Dr_Powderfinger

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https://na.warships.today/help/warships_today_rating

All you need to do is see the chart in the top of that page and see how many actions are left out to dry.  It is all about winning, kills, damage.

 

It doesn't reward capping.

It doesn't reward spotting.

It doesn't reward CVs sweeping the skies clear of enemy aircraft.

It doesn't reward the ship, player getting lots of Potential Damage.

Etc.

 

WTR can be used to help gage a player, but it is merely 1 stat.  It's not even an official WG WoWS stat.  I would not look at WTR as the sole measure of a player.  Even then, WTR is kind of useless for some ships.  Look at the few examples I listed that WTR doesn't care about.  DDs are screwed quite a bit in WTR.  There are games where DDs get sh*t for damage and kills, yet they do the spotting, capping, and the threat of their torpedoes is sometimes enough to scare bigger ships to retreat across the map.  How does WTR truly reward them?

 

The only thing it measures is damage farming.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Obsession with WTR is a good indicator of self-esteem issues manifested by an irresistible desire to masturbate in public.

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Damage, kills, spotting, and caps are some of the most fundamental cores of winning.

They are all intermingled. Without spotting there can be (almost) no damage, exception is torps.

Kills dont happen without damage, and rarely without spotting.

The many wins involves capping of some sort. Capping without killing can rarely win.

 

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Since I dont know what WTR from Warship today is, all I know is  well its a number. A number is only a number until we the human brain put an explanation that makes sense to us. The more we believe on this explanation the more we convince our selves its true when in reality its only a number.  For example, for must people WIN RATE is

  • a better indicator of skill.

For me Win Rate tells me you're lucky with

  1.  Match making
  2. Having luck playing with 11 other players that know what they need to do to win CONSISTENTLY

Use the 3rd party stats tracking site to check and improve on your individual stats/category.  Stat shaming, that is a person with emotional issues, Cheers guys!

Edited by Navalpride33
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WTR shows metrics to one aspect only. That its weighted to damage the most skews it badly. 

Intangibles aren't included that may make a player unicum and help a team to win, but if they aren't measured then people ignore them and only work on those aspects that matter to WTR.

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6 minutes ago, kagero__ said:

Obsession with WTR is a good indicator of self-esteem issues manifested by an irresistible desire to masturbate in public.

ROTFLMAO

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 "I couldn't claim that I was smarter than sixty-five other guys--but the average of sixty-five other guys, certainly! - Richard Feynman".  (Replace "smarter" with "better" if you like).

 Use the data from WT, or any stats site, for your own enjoyment.  They are flawed, but if you like stats, then its all we've got.

B

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As others have said, WTR measures damage mostly, 80% last time I checked. The focus on damage isn’t what wins games, spotting (which the rewarding technique is bad), and one’s mere presence, can help win games. Take my Ryujo, I have slightly above average damage, but my WR is over 70%, why? Because I scared enemy ships by keeping them spotted, and denying them the ability to hurt my allies (ie, denying strikes or a favorable position).

The spotting rewards only apply if the enemy ship you are spotting cannot be spotted by someone else. If you light a CA, and your BBs shoot him, and while the shells are in the air, he shoots back and gets detonated, you get 0 spotting damage. 

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Any metric of overall performance is only as useful as the variables that go into it and the manner in which they are weighted. To my mind, WTR does not incorporate enough variables. And this is even before we start splitting hairs about how they ought to be prioritised.

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The wtr value rewards damage farming instead of contributing to a win.  Yes damage matters, but most players will farm 50k off a BB from a distance rather than shoot a cruiser for 20k, or a DD for 10k, even if it is closer, just to show bigger damage numbers to inflate their wtr values.  The best metric for skill right now is base XP, but WG doesn't release the players accumulated value in that for each ship.  They only release the total XP with premium multipliers.  Base XP at least combines various other aspects of the game, so it is a better indicator of overall contribution.  

Even if wtr is used, the win rate should be the 50% value, then 30% damage, then 20% kills.  Win rate is the most important stat.  It shows contribution.  If you consistently win, you are doing something right.  If you consistently lose, you might want to adjust your play style.  The average win rate is centered around 50%, but better players will have higher values and poorer playes will have lower values.  If a kill was the lowest value, then kill stealing wouldn't be a thing so much and kill securing would help with the win.

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2 hours ago, Murcc said:

The wtr value rewards damage farming instead of contributing to a win.  Yes damage matters, but most players will farm 50k off a BB from a distance rather than shoot a cruiser for 20k, or a DD for 10k, even if it is closer, just to show bigger damage numbers to inflate their wtr values.  The best metric for skill right now is base XP, but WG doesn't release the players accumulated value in that for each ship.  They only release the total XP with premium multipliers.  Base XP at least combines various other aspects of the game, so it is a better indicator of overall contribution.  

Even if wtr is used, the win rate should be the 50% value, then 30% damage, then 20% kills.  Win rate is the most important stat.  It shows contribution.  If you consistently win, you are doing something right.  If you consistently lose, you might want to adjust your play style.  The average win rate is centered around 50%, but better players will have higher values and poorer playes will have lower values.  If a kill was the lowest value, then kill stealing wouldn't be a thing so much and kill securing would help with the win.

I like this formula much more, spotting would need to be added though, and perhaps weighted heavier for cvs and dds.

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Not particularly, but it's as good as anything else we have.

 

Until we get a better system wtr does for the time being.

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7 hours ago, CarbonButtprint said:

I'm just wondering what other people think about this. In case you didn't know, these are the percentages: 50% damage, 30% kills, 20% winrate, 0% base reset/capture. I think it's a good indication overall, but I wish that the damage value was based off the percent of damage caused to an enemy rather than the raw damage number. 

Its an average damage meter, pure and simple. Its not a good indicator for who is "good" on your team, but it does give you an idea in regards to who is probably "less useless" on your team.

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It’s a decent general indicator if you don’t have the time or energy to dig deeper. Someone with 1400 wtr is going to be better than someone with 1000 wtr. However I would not bet that a 1450 wtr player is better than a 1400 because it does not account for enough to be that accurate. Depending on what someone plays and how they play their wtr can vary some even for a similar level of skill.

It’s like listening to something on the news, it could be accurate or it could be fake you have to dig deeper and look yourself.

That said even though it’s heavily damage based you got to be a decent player to get those damaged in the first place even if its padding. Not just anyone can do double what the average is. 

Stats like everything else in life now it seems are heavily polarized. You got the stat haters that wait around on the forums for a stat thread to pop up so they can make their comment about how terrible people with good stats are and how they must suck at life. You got the stat defenders that like being good at something and being able to show it but the truth is always somewhere in the middle and it’s very rare that an absolute position is accurate. 

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I am of the opinion it can be used as a metric to see if you are improving if you take it for what its worth, but as a measure of absolute skill, no.

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4 hours ago, GabeTheDespot said:

As others have said, WTR measures damage mostly, 80% last time I checked. The focus on damage isn’t what wins games, spotting (which the rewarding technique is bad), and one’s mere presence, can help win games. Take my Ryujo, I have slightly above average damage, but my WR is over 70%, why? Because I scared enemy ships by keeping them spotted, and denying them the ability to hurt my allies (ie, denying strikes or a favorable position).

The spotting rewards only apply if the enemy ship you are spotting cannot be spotted by someone else. If you light a CA, and your BBs shoot him, and while the shells are in the air, he shoots back and gets detonated, you get 0 spotting damage. 

It's been 50% based on damage since I can remember and that's over a few years now. It's never been 80% of your damage, ever.

If you check Warships today you will see it's 50% Damage, 30% kills, and 20% W/R. They currently have 0% off Capping and Defending. Cap points and Defense has always been a point that they wanted to adjust for, the issue is that the API to wargaming's system for WoWS doesn't bring back proper data on this metric like it does for WoT. This makes it difficult for them to create a metric including those 2 points. They have left it up on the original page for when it does work to add it to the mix.

Overall, WTR is the best thing we got, but in my opinion the WR8 system on WotLabs for WoT is better but it also is able to pull more metrics to create a larger picture for a given profile.

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