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disappearing enemy

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well today is a real bummer....three random battles where I was wiped out by ghost ships that just appear fire at u and disappear again......what a real disappointment....especially since I spent money on this game for HOOD...........

 

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8 minutes ago, ship29710 said:

.three random battles where I was wiped out by ghost ships that just appear fire at u and disappear again......what a real disappointment....especially since I spent money on this game for HOOD..

 

?EH ?

 there is sooooo much details missing

4 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

Thank you ^^^^^ I too recommend this for your understanding as the what you call "disappearing enamy". Thank RIPNUN2, an educated captian is a better off captian. CHeers!

Edited by Navalpride33

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18 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

Great link

14 minutes ago, Destroyer_ShimakazeChan said:

Someone needs to update their understanding of game mechanics 

Yes I think we all could learn something.

 

What I see happening is a ship firing and then immediately disappearing again.  A prime example of this a BB shooting at me, appears just after he fires and seconds later he is invisible again until he shoots again where he is only visible for 2 or 3 seconds max.  I had been detected by a DD I cannot see.

My understanding is that once you fire your detect-ability goes out to your max fire range for a period of time (20 sec).  But if the you had not been previously detected and are still being detected, this resets immediately. 

I believe this is what the OP is talking about.  A ship that has never been detected shooting at him and immediately disappearing.  

This is a game mechanic that best benefits BBs with long gun ranges.  Cruisers with shorter gun ranges are almost always at the mercy of being detected prior to ever being in range of anything to shoot.   This is a core game imbalance in my mind.  BBs that play way back, and stay undetected have a distinct advantage.  It is certainly a mechanic I see BB players using.  Trying to be in a good spot to shoot from while remaining undetected.  The problem I see is they are almost never in the best spot to support the forward ships, DDs and cruisers.  Often leaveing us in the open with no back up.  It is why as a cruiser and DD player I no longer rush caps and spot.  If I got no back up I am not going in, the enemy can have that cap!

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9 minutes ago, AXELGREASE said:

My understanding is that once you fire your detect-ability goes out to your max fire range for a period of time (20 sec).  But if the you had not been previously detected and are still being detected, this resets immediately. 

I believe this is what the OP is talking about.  A ship that has never been detected shooting at him and immediately disappearing.  

There are a couple situations where this might happen. If the ship is firing on you at near max range, and you are running away from them, you might soon exceed their max range. This would make them then invisible to you unless another ship on your team had line of sight to them. It might also be that a DD has dropped smoke between you and the ship firing on you. If no one else on your team has line of sight to that ship, it would vanish.

Respects,

Am

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59 minutes ago, Destroyer_ShimakazeChan said:

Someone needs to update their understanding of game mechanics 

Agreed, this is a newer player so they are still learning the game mechanics.

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Tagged by the old "disappearing" ships. You see you must have bought one of the "haunted" Hoods. Probably a German ship that got you.

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1 hour ago, Destroyer_ShimakazeChan said:

Someone needs to update their understanding of game mechanics 

Considering the vast majority of players have little concept of the game mechanics, it seems unlikely this will happen....:cap_hmm:

Constantly surprises me that anyone that has played this game for any length of time really believes that most players care about learning the mechanics....:Smile_amazed:

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31 minutes ago, Amracil said:

There are a couple situations where this might happen. If the ship is firing on you at near max range, and you are running away from them, you might soon exceed their max range. This would make them then invisible to you unless another ship on your team had line of sight to them. It might also be that a DD has dropped smoke between you and the ship firing on you. If no one else on your team has line of sight to that ship, it would vanish.

Respects,

Am

Yep, and the one that I usually encounter are those small islands, such as on Haven.   They're squat, short little plateau islands.  You can see over them, you can shoot over them.

However, I've had BBs open up at 13km and then a portion of their ship go behind one of those squat islands, and they disappear.

Likewise, I've sat behind those squat islands, can fully see the enemy, and pepper them undetected.      I've experienced it both ways - frustrating when you're on the receiving end, but that's the mechanic.  No complaints here.

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For the sake of the OP and anyone else who may not understand spotting mechanics:
Bnk6jVo.png

Keep in mind islands and smoke can obscure visions by breaking line of sight, making it possible to be within SDR and still be undetected

 

EDIT: When firing your main battery guns your detection range will bloom to your maximum firing range for 20s.

Example: A DD has a SDR of 6km and a 13km gun range. Said DD opens fire on an enemy, and his or her SDR will bloom all the way to 13km for 20s unless the DD continues firing

Edited by Destroyer_ShimakazeChan

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1 hour ago, AXELGREASE said:

Great link

Yes I think we all could learn something.

 

What I see happening is a ship firing and then immediately disappearing again.  A prime example of this a BB shooting at me, appears just after he fires and seconds later he is invisible again until he shoots again where he is only visible for 2 or 3 seconds max.  I had been detected by a DD I cannot see.

My understanding is that once you fire your detect-ability goes out to your max fire range for a period of time (20 sec).  But if the you had not been previously detected and are still being detected, this resets immediately. 

I believe this is what the OP is talking about.  A ship that has never been detected shooting at him and immediately disappearing.  

This is a game mechanic that best benefits BBs with long gun ranges.  Cruisers with shorter gun ranges are almost always at the mercy of being detected prior to ever being in range of anything to shoot.   This is a core game imbalance in my mind.  BBs that play way back, and stay undetected have a distinct advantage.  It is certainly a mechanic I see BB players using.  Trying to be in a good spot to shoot from while remaining undetected.  The problem I see is they are almost never in the best spot to support the forward ships, DDs and cruisers.  Often leaveing us in the open with no back up.  It is why as a cruiser and DD player I no longer rush caps and spot.  If I got no back up I am not going in, the enemy can have that cap!

I do this in my cruiser.   If I spot a target in direct line of sight to me, I try to wait until there is an island between me and him.  Then i shoot. My detection range blooms out to max firing range, but then goes right back to what it was before.   If it doesn’t and I remain spotted, then I also know there was someone else and not my target that spotted me - usually a dd or airplane.

 

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High tier premium ships that can be bought without qualification are the worst idea in the game. OP had only 23 battles in T3 BB then jumped right into a premium T7 BB. He's set up by WG to fail.

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To add on top of detection

Some ships had spotting plane equipped, meaning they can extend their max range further. Russian cruiser for example, if you are already detected my enemy dd/planes/by other means (radar), if the cruiser is well within his extended max range, he can shoot you and you cant see him

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The disappearing ship that I am fighting, is the ship that is there detected and fired at but once fired at disappears but continues to fire back at me...I can see the firing sequence from the ship as it fires at me, but cannot aim at it because it is not there...other ships fire at it and my only solution is to try and get away...sometimes the ship will reappear and the battle resumes......but in the mean time the ship is firing at me and there is only the blasts from the guns showing that there is a ship even there.......therefore a ghost ship that disappears............

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1 minute ago, ship29710 said:

The disappearing ship that I am fighting, is the ship that is there detected and fired at but once fired at disappears but continues to fire back at me...I can see the firing sequence from the ship as it fires at me, but cannot aim at it because it is not there...other ships fire at it and my only solution is to try and get away...sometimes the ship will reappear and the battle resumes......but in the mean time the ship is firing at me and there is only the blasts from the guns showing that there is a ship even there.......therefore a ghost ship that disappears............

Firing while cloaked? 

 

Must be Chang's bird of prey... 

latest?cb=20100518004525&path-prefix=en

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This thread, literally shows WG's effort at communicating game mechanics to players. Even this, one of the fundamental mechanics of the game, is not properly conveyed to the players. No wonder there are players that reaach T10 and still have no clue on how the game works.

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1 hour ago, ship29710 said:

The disappearing ship that I am fighting, is the ship that is there detected and fired at but once fired at disappears but continues to fire back at me...I can see the firing sequence from the ship as it fires at me, but cannot aim at it because it is not there...other ships fire at it and my only solution is to try and get away...sometimes the ship will reappear and the battle resumes......but in the mean time the ship is firing at me and there is only the blasts from the guns showing that there is a ship even there.......therefore a ghost ship that disappears............

Knows about the ability to modify a badge but doesn't know the vision mechanics. Okay... well... whatever. 

If you're zoomed in on a ship that disappears depending on your graphic setting it may be very difficult to tell that the ship has smoked up and is concealed therein. Zooming out to verify the presence of smoke can provide some measure of context for the disappearing act. Other times, if the ship has not fired within 20 seconds, if you lose sight of it it is because it has exited its visible range or, if it was already outside of its visible range is no longer being spotted by a friendly ship that was within its visible range. 

 

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On 3/25/2018 at 2:45 PM, ship29710 said:

well today is a real bummer....three random battles where I was wiped out by ghost ships that just appear fire at u and disappear again......what a real disappointment....especially since I spent money on this game for HOOD...........

 

While it is possible you experienced a bug, the most likely explanation is it had something to do with the spotting/detection mechanics of the game. I strongly urge you to read the link @RipNuN2 provided about spotting/detection section of the WoWs Wiki. And in addition to the great graphic @Destroyer_ShimakazeChan  provided, there are also a couple of pretty videos on YouTube that also deal with the spotting/detection mechanics. A lot of newer players don't understand how smoke works in the game either. Video below.

You also need to know your own concealment rating. For the Hood, without any modifiers from camo or captain skills, your surface detection range without firing a shot is 16.2 km and airplanes can detect you at 13.86 km. That increases, blooms, when you fire your main guns or if your secondary and/or AA guns are firing. It also increases if you are on fire.

On top of all this, lag between your computer and the WoWs server could also play a factor.

 

 

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But...guys

 

He paid money for the Hood

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1 minute ago, Business6 said:

But...guys

 

He paid money for the Hood

Which appears to be his first mistake. Tier jumping from 3 to 7 without really understanding the huge difference in mechanics and play styles.

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23 hours ago, pmgaudio said:

6iiTnuL.gif

It's the seamless animated gifs.  Those are my favorites.

:Smile_great:

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1 minute ago, xalmgrey said:

Which appears to be his first mistake. Tier jumping from 3 to 7 without really understanding the huge difference in mechanics and play styles.

Of course.

 

It's less about the fact that he has a problem understanding the mechanics of the game and more about the fact that he's not asking what is actually happening.  I certainly hope some of the posts here help people who aren't making threads like this understand what is going on but none of this should be for the benefit of the OP.  He doesn't care because he paid and expects something else.

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