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JediMasterDraco

USS Helena aka The Machine Gun Ship

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This looks identical to the Dallas in every way except more guns. It has the same guns with exactly the same stats, identical detection, its tier-adjusted survivability is about the same, it has the same modules, is only a tiny bit less maneuverable and has about the same AA (again, considering that it is a tier higher).

 

Again, I'm pretty sure these are stock stats and that there'll be a range upgrade which'll bring it up to 16km or so. It looks perfectly balanced to me, and I'm pretty sure this, like the Dallas, will play just like the cleveland does now.

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No range, meh reload.

What are we, 0 for 6 in "might be good" so far.

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I don't know....fifteen guns at Tier 7 sounds pretty nice to me.    

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2 hours ago, JediMasterDraco said:

Well here's the ship I've been waiting for since I started playing the game. USS Helena was a ship know to put down fire that was so accurate and rapid that the Japanese literally thought she was armed with 6" machine guns and thought it was a major victory when she was sunk during the Solomons campaign. Here's hoping wargaming doesn't screw it up.

 

ST. American cruiser Helena, tier VII.

Hit points – 33300. Plating - 16 mm. Armor belt – 51-127 mm. Torpedo damage reduction – 4%.

Main battery - 5х3 152 mm. Firing range – 14.6 km. Maximum HE shell damage – 2200. Chance to cause fire – 12%. Maximum AP shell damage - 3200. Reload time - 10 s. 180 degree turn time - 22.5 s. Maximum dispersion - 133 m. HE initial velocity - 812 m/s. AP initial velocity - 762 m/s. Sigma value – 2.0.

...

AA defense - 10x1 20 mm, range - 2.0 km, damage per second - 36. 4x2 20 mm, range - 2.0 km, damage per second - 24. 4x2 40 mm, range - 3.5 km, damage per second - 64. 4x2 127 mm, range - 5.0 km, damage per second - 60.

Maximum speed - 32.5 kt. Turning circle radius - 680 m. Rudder shift time – 9.1 s. Surface detectability – 11.9 km. Air detectability – 7.6 km. Detectability after firing main guns in smoke – 5.6 km.

Available consumables:

Slot 1 - Damage Control Party

Slot 2 - Defensive AA Fire/Hydroacoustic Search

Slot 3 - Catapult Fighter

All stats are listed without crew and upgrade modifiers but with best available modules. The stats are subject to change during the testing.

Image may contain: ocean, sky, mountain, cloud, outdoor, water and nature

Minotaur would like a word on being a "machine gun ship":Smile_teethhappy:

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18 minutes ago, Madwolf05 said:

No range, meh reload.

What are we, 0 for 6 in "might be good" so far.

cReniEQ.jpg

does no one read the "STATS MAY BE SUBJECT TO CHANGE DURING TESTING"

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1 minute ago, tcbaker777 said:

cReniEQ.jpg

does no one read the "STATS MAY BE SUBJECT TO CHANGE DURING TESTING"

Yes. Nobody reads these days tcbaker. Look at EA, or the WW I Steamboat hater. 

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2 hours ago, smf117 said:

Not sure I like the idea of a 10 second reload on USN 152s. I know lowering it could make this borderline OP but still...with those short range guns at that tier, maybe a short reload is exactly what it needs.

Thankfully that‘s what the Supertesters are for, to test stuff and see if it works or not.

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Stats are subject to change, and they had damn well better. 10s reload on the potato canons is incredibly mediocre. If they couldn’t balance its rate of fire properly, they should have used a different ship.

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19 minutes ago, Big_Spud said:

Stats are subject to change, and they had damn well better. 10s reload on the potato canons is incredibly mediocre. If they couldn’t balance its rate of fire properly, they should have used a different ship.

so you want a better mogami with tier lower? 
hell no no no no 

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6 minutes ago, New_Horizontal said:

so you want a better mogami with tier lower? 
hell no no no no 

 

Does Mogami have an initial HE shell velocity of only ~800 meters per second and no torpedoes? Try comparing this things actual applicable HE DPM to Shchors or Belfast.

 

Hopefully testing will show just how mediocre it is in the current form. Same with Dallas and Seattle.

 

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4 minutes ago, Big_Spud said:

 

Does Mogami have an initial HE shell velocity of only ~800 meters per second and no torpedoes?

 

does mogami is T7 ship to begin with? 
does torpedo on cruiser necessary to be a good thing?
does helena have to face yamato every now and then like mogami get?

and so on 

 

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5 minutes ago, New_Horizontal said:

does mogami is T7 ship to begin with? 
does torpedo on cruiser necessary to be a good thing?
does helena have to face yamato every now and then like mogami get?

and so on 

 

 

You were the one that brought Mogami into the discussion.

Mogami has both much higher DPM as well as higher applicable DPM because of the differences in shell damage and shell velocity. Torpedoes are NEVER a disadvantage on cruisers ingame, especially not being able to drop a full spread of them into a choked area before you open fire, or in the path of enemy ships should you be kiting away. How about being able to fire them into smoke to flush enemy ships out from a relatively safe distance?

Helena has to face the likes of Musashi, Iowa, Missouri, Lion and Alsace, all of which are every bit as lethal to a tier 7 cruiser as Yamato is to a tier 8 cruiser. Cruisers in general don’t hold up well to battleship fire.

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7 minutes ago, Big_Spud said:

 

You were the one that brought Mogami into the discussion.

Mogami has both much higher DPM as well as higher applicable DPM because of the differences in shell damage and shell velocity. Torpedoes are NEVER a disadvantage on cruisers ingame, especially not being able to drop a full spread of them into a choked area before you open fire, or in the path of enemy ships should you be kiting away. How about being able to fire them into smoke to flush enemy ships out from a relatively safe distance?

Helena has to face the likes of Musashi, Iowa, Missouri, Lion and Alsace, all of which are every bit as lethal to a tier 7 cruiser as Yamato is to a tier 8 cruiser. Cruisers in general don’t hold up well to battleship fire.

you seem to missed the whole point I'm trying to make 
I'll repeat again 

1)
mogami is T8 
Helena is T7 
you are asking to have mogami dpm at tier lower
2)
how many times you get to use torpedo, if you have to use torpedo you need to consider your position immediately granted you yolo rush enemy ship but that's basically desperate move or you screwed up your position
3)
T7 tend to be top tier more than T8 does is that enough to make a difference 
and cruiser dont stand well against BBAP regardless of tier 

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Tier VII CL with Tier VI Max Gun Range, and Tier VI Cleveland Floaty Shells, having mediocre AA, and dealing with up to Tier IX ships :Smile_Default:

Comparing this ship to Mogami is improper.  Mogami can reliably hit things at her max range.  Helena inherits the floaty Cleveland shells.

 

Current Tier VII Pensacola has lots of problems, but at least main battery power and ability to hit at range isn't in question.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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4 hours ago, IronMike11B4O said:

10 second reload? Unimpressed.

Yeah, all the Roo-Shin CLs with 6" guns, tier 6 and up, have a reload of 8 seconds or less.

 

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Looks pretty dire, of course there's scope for serious improvements but there need to be in my opinion.

 

It's easier to have more confidence in the Dev team if they get it mostly right first time.

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58 minutes ago, New_Horizontal said:

you seem to missed the whole point I'm trying to make 
I'll repeat again 

1)
mogami is T8 
Helena is T7 
you are asking to have mogami dpm at tier lower
2)
how many times you get to use torpedo, if you have to use torpedo you need to consider your position immediately granted you yolo rush enemy ship but that's basically desperate move or you screwed up your position
3)
T7 tend to be top tier more than T8 does is that enough to make a difference 
and cruiser dont stand well against BBAP regardless of tier 

 

And you seem to have also missed every point I was making.

-Mogami has a much easier time applying its already much higher DPM because of its absurd shell velocity. Helena has no such luck. And going by pure DPM, you must think Atlanta is an absolute monster. Mogamis 15.5 cm guns have a DPM of 234,000, Atlanta technically cracks 300,000 DPM. Too bad you can't actually ever APPLY that DPM in any reliable way. Shchors has the EXACT same DPM as Helena at 198,000, yet has an easier time applying it at all times thanks to its much greater velocity, and also at longer range. Or how about Belfast (because there are still a boatload of those around) and her 201,600 DPM. Helena just has barrel count and that's literally it.

-I used my torpedoes on IJN CA's rather frequently when the situation arose. They're a great kick to the shin when you pre-fire them into a cap/smoke cloud, or when you're kiting away and drop them in the path of the people chasing you.

-Grats, you literally repeated exactly what I said, rendering your own point moot.

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2 hours ago, tcbaker777 said:

cReniEQ.jpg

does no one read the "STATS MAY BE SUBJECT TO CHANGE DURING TESTING"

Show me anytime proposed changes to USN Cruisers, or USN Premium Cruisers ever changed for the better after the initial proposal.

It's not my fault you have your head up your [edited].

I've been waiting since Alpha for this crapto stop. I've paid thousands of dollars in playing this game. I can be upset if I choose to be. [edited] you and your labels.

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Hope the alternative Tier VII US cruiser is going to have better guns than this.

WG really likes to sh*t all over US cruisers, that's for sure.

 

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5 minutes ago, Big_Spud said:

 

And you seem to have also missed every point I was making.

-Mogami has a much easier time applying its already much higher DPM because of its absurd shell velocity. Helena has no such luck. And going by pure DPM, you must think Atlanta is an absolute monster. Mogamis 15.5 cm guns have a DPM of 234,000, Atlanta technically cracks 300,000 DPM. Too bad you can't actually every APPLY that DPM in any reliable way. Shchors has the EXACT same DPM as Helena at 198,000, yet has an easier time applying it at all times thanks to its much greater velocity, and also at longer range. Or how about Belfast (because there are still a boatload of those around) and her 201,600 DPM. Helena just has barrel count and that's literally it.

-I used my torpedoes on IJN CA's rather frequently when the situation arose. They're a great kick to the shin when you pre-fire them into a cap/smoke cloud, or when you're kiting away and drop them in the path of the people chasing you.

-Grats, you literally repeated exactly what I said.

Torpedoes on a Cruiser are a good sidearm.  I may not necessarily get to use them all the time, but when the opportunities arrive, they are useful.

IJN Cruisers on the kite.

German and even Russian Cruisers having torpedoes around islands keep ships honest.  The threat of torpedoes is real, and even a Battleship has to respect them.

 

If I know the only thing behind an island is a Cruiser with no torpedoes like most USN Cruisers, I will bullrush that thing so hard with my Battleship with zero respect.  But if that Cruiser has torpedoes, well man, I have to reconsider.

 

These 3 pictures are very old, but it gets the point across how dangerous torpedoes even on a Cruiser can be to a Battleship.

YOL7KzC.jpg

tBfPIaP.jpg

IVKuW2H.jpg

Now, I know some will say that a Tier VIII Cruiser against a Tier VI Battleship is a huge disparity, but it isn't.  Because the BB still has superior armor and a bunch of "only" 356mm shells slamming on a Cruiser is still bad news for a Cruiser.  But we see a badly mauled Cruiser with torpedoes, kill a near full HP Battleship because of island cover and torpedoes.  No torps on the Cruiser?  The scenario is much more dangerous for the Cruiser, even against a lower tier BB.

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3/10.

Ship with nickname 'Machine Gun Cruiser' gets 10s reload...

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