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awiggin

So, Guilio is not only OP, it's the 2nd most played BB at tier 5?

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I happened to check some stats tonight and saw this. GC is on top as usual, but what caught my eye was the number of games. Other than the french grind line it's played at least twice as much as other tier 5 bb's

I think anyone that got the Guilio knows the thing is OP, and WG gave away a lot of them. It's not quite up to Nikolai in terms of domination, but it is also sees a ton more games.

So, my question is, is it really good to have a crazy good BB at tier 5, in such numbers, when tier 5 already presents a significant challenge to newer players? :cap_hmm:

 

image.thumb.png.a9b77061b406612f3013544791d1627e.png

 

Thoughts?

 

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The problem with tier 5 is not GC, it is the disproportionate amount of games vs tier 7s. Even if you flat out remove GC from the game it will not make people play other tier 5 battleships more, or win in them more. 

Nerfing the last few playable tier 5 ships is the opposite of what should be happening to help that suffering tier. 

 

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I guess you didn't notice the top 4 ships are premium of some sort.  Chances are the ship is doing well is because those playing the ship are veterans.  Just a guess.

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24 minutes ago, awiggin said:

So my question is, is it really good to have a crazy good BB at tier 5, in such numbers, when tier 5 already presents a significant challenge to newer players

It could be argued that having a good BB at tier 5 encourages the players that have it to use it, thus helping the population balance as a whole since the new players are less likely to face a tier 7 battleship.

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12 minutes ago, collisionSpace said:

It could be argued that having a good BB at tier 5 encourages the players that have it to use it, thus helping the population balance as a whole since the new players are less likely to face a tier 7 battleship.

Except it's no longer available, so newer players don't have that option...:Smile_teethhappy:

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26 minutes ago, StoptheViolins said:

I guess you didn't notice the top 4 ships are premium of some sort.  Chances are the ship is doing well is because those playing the ship are veterans.  Just a guess.

WG gave 1000's of GC's to players that had stopped playing or weren't playing much....and it was a very cheap buy during x-mas, so I'm doubting it's all about "Veterans playing it" 

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3 minutes ago, awiggin said:

Except it's no longer available, so newer players don't have that option...:Smile_teethhappy:

Availability now doesn't matter - by increasing the number of players at tier 5 it makes it less likely that tier 5 players will see a tier 7 ship (sort of a herd immunity?), so the answer to your question is yes. (There are also many ways to get a no answer of course).

Either way, they're still screwed, but at least they have a fighting chance against a tier 5 BB.

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Guilio does not need a nerf. The T5 BBs do not need a buff, save for the pitiful NY, which really ought to be put down and then cremated and its ashes spread across New Dawn. 

What needs to happen is the destructive T4 restricted MM needs to be reverted.

Edited by Taichunger

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1 hour ago, Taichunger said:

Guilio does not need a nerf. The T5 BBs do not need a buff, save for the pitiful NY, which really ought to be put down and then cremated and its ashes spread across New Dawn. 

What needs to happen is the destructive T4 restricted MM needs to be reverted.

Tai, the problem isn't the T4 thing.  It's not even +/-2 tier MM.

The problem is how MM constructs teams.  You've probably seen my posts on this before, but what WoWS MM needs to do is take a page from WoT MM.

 

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Unsure of the point being made - that the game is not balanced/fair?

As a new player joining this war game whose foundation centres around Surviving to do Damage and earn Credits and XP to buy better consumables and advance, you are faced with the fact you are not even given an equal opportunity to Damage, Survive, earn credit and XP; that comes down to the ship type you choose.

Then let's move on to the player base where, as you state, new players will have to face players with OP ships, 19 points Captains, benefits from special signals and being Clan members, also with the credits to buy signals and probably with upgraded modules that make certain gimmicks on ships become even better. Of course we can throw in the fact that players who have been playing the game should have a better grasp of how to play it, so skill levels should generally be better.

Then take a look at the 'ultimate competition' Clan Wars, or even Rank Play - I would be amazed if the above factors did not play a part in what teams or individuals sat at the top of the rankings. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure plenty at the top are skilful players, but to look at it from another viewpoint: There are plenty of new players that will have a natural skill at playing this game; so how many of them do you think will beat the list of challenges above and be represented at the top?

You can throw in MM if you want, but all the basic elements above far outweigh its contribution to the problem.

I enjoy playing this game, but it's shelf life is constantly eroded by the lack of balance, ship type divide and opportunity for the new player. Unfortunately changing one thing will not address this fact. :Smile_honoring:

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It's a tier 5 battleship... which means it gets pooped on by matchmaking constantly. What does it matter if it's "OP"...? It's going to be facing tier 7 competition a lot. 

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I'm conflicted about GC at Tier V.

 

One one hand it is absolutely broken for her tier.

 

OTOH, it is the one Tier V BB that actually has qualities that make her decent when facing Tier VIIs, qualities her Tier V BB peers do not have.

 

Personally, I have a deep hatred of Tier V because it just doesn't scale well for Tier VII matches.  Texas, New York vs Nagato, anyone?  Gneisenau charging anyone of these POS BBs?  Yet GC is the only Tier V BB that holds up decently in a VII match.

 

GC's speed, concealment are what let her get by in a VII match.

Kongo has sh*t concealment so she can't run and hide as easily when she needs to.

Konig is armored like a tank, FAR better than GC in protection, but is slow against VII BB threats and doesn't have the concealment.

NY and Texas have no armor, eat pens galore, have mediocre concealment, and are SLOW.

Iron Duke isn't exactly a paragon of stealth, nor armor, and she's a sliver faster than NY/TX.

 

GC can run, live, and fight later on in a VII match where her peers can't.  It's funny because it's due to stealth and speed that allows GC to succeed.  Keep surviving to keep shooting shells.  It's not armor, nor great firepower.  I mean, she's actually one of the squishiest Tier V BBs!  But it's the ability to break contact and move to where she needs to be, and not be spotted across the godd*mn map while doing so.  That is why she succeeds.

 

Kongo is the closest Tier V BB in how they sail, but Kongo has bad concealment so she can't do the same secretive, fast map movement that GC can.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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41 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I'm conflicted about GC at Tier V.

 

One one hand it is absolutely broken for her tier.

 

OTOH, it is the one Tier V BB that actually has qualities that make her decent when facing Tier VIIs, qualities her Tier V BB peers do not have.

 

Personally, I have a deep hatred of Tier V because it just doesn't scale well for Tier VII matches.  Texas, New York vs Nagato, anyone?  Gneisenau charging anyone of these POS BBs?  Yet GC is the only Tier V BB that holds up decently in a VII match.

 

GC's speed, concealment are what let her get by in a VII match.

Kongo has sh*t concealment so she can't run and hide as easily when she needs to.

Konig is armored like a tank, FAR better than GC in protection, but is slow against VII BB threats and doesn't have the concealment.

NY and Texas have no armor, eat pens galore, have mediocre concealment, and are SLOW.

Iron Duke isn't exactly a paragon of stealth, nor armor, and she's a sliver faster than NY/TX.

 

GC can run, live, and fight later on in a VII match where her peers can't.  It's funny because it's due to stealth and speed that allows GC to succeed.  Keep surviving to keep shooting shells.  It's not armor, nor great firepower.  I mean, she's actually one of the squishiest Tier V BBs!  But it's the ability to break contact and move to where she needs to be, and not be spotted across the godd*mn map while doing so.  That is why she succeeds.

 

Kongo is the closest Tier V BB in how they sail, but Kongo has bad concealment so she can't do the same secretive, fast map movement that GC can.

Konig's guns also suck.

If Kongo was slightly more accurate, she'd be just as good as GC in tier 7. The problem is, her ordinance feels closer to the derpy performance of Fuso's weapons than, say, Nagato. 

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22 minutes ago, AviationBattleship_Hyuga said:

Konig's guns also suck.

If Kongo was slightly more accurate, she'd be just as good as GC in tier 7. The problem is, her ordinance feels closer to the derpy performance of Fuso's weapons than, say, Nagato. 

Also, the landscape of Tier V BBs has changed considerably since the days of Kongo and New York being the only ones for Tier V.  The power creep in the game at that tier and the tiers they face hasn't been good for Kongo.  I still remember the days of the general consensus being that Kongo was the sweetheart of Tier V.  Well, barring Old 3 TB Zuiho and Pre-Nerf Minekaze, of course :Smile_hiding:

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Tiers V and VI are quite challenging for battleships. I've recently arrived at these tiers in my grinds, and for the most part, they just don't hold up against VIIs and VIIIs. The New Mexico is okay sometimes, but the König really struggles, as does the Texas. It can be very tough on new players since it takes very little time to reach these tiers.

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2 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Kongo is the closest Tier V BB in how they sail, but Kongo has bad concealment so she can't do the same secretive, fast map movement that GC can.

Yes.  But the Gucci Caesar is my favorite T5 BB, where the Kongo is my least.  Started playing Kongo and it was enough to make me drop the IJN line.  I actually had better success in the Myogi than the Kongo (probably due to the MM) and actually enjoyed playing it more if you can believe that.

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5 hours ago, AviationBattleship_Hyuga said:

It's a tier 5 battleship... which means it gets pooped on by matchmaking constantly. What does it matter if it's "OP"...? It's going to be facing tier 7 competition a lot. 

I played 1 battle in my GC. It was a T7 battle, I sank a Nagato, won, and survived doing it. GC is a strong ship, even against T7s. I played like total junk, and just kited the whole time, and was still rewarded very well. No citadels to be sure, but 11k AP salvos were certainly not terribly hard to pull off against poorly played T7 Battleships. 

 

Any game online is like this. Try being a "new" player in any MMORPG, you're up against a wall right out of the gate. 

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2 hours ago, ZARDOZ_II said:

I actually had better success in the Myogi than the Kongo (probably due to the MM) and actually enjoyed playing it more if you can believe that.

Kongo is the T5 BB that least care about the MM. Its the most versatile T5 BB, longo range guns and high speed.

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It’s pays really well cuz it’s premium. From what I have read it’s also faster than Texas, arguably hits harder and is way more agile. All good reasons to play it. Texas AA is good but carriers are scarce and the rewards for downing lanes aren’t really amazing. If I had Giorgio I play the heck out of it.

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10 hours ago, awiggin said:

I happened to check some stats tonight and saw this. GC is on top as usual, but what caught my eye was the number of games. Other than the french grind line it's played at least twice as much as other tier 5 bb's

I think anyone that got the Guilio knows the thing is OP, and WG gave away a lot of them. It's not quite up to Nikolai in terms of domination, but it is also sees a ton more games.

So, my question is, is it really good to have a crazy good BB at tier 5, in such numbers, when tier 5 already presents a significant challenge to newer players? :cap_hmm:

 

image.thumb.png.a9b77061b406612f3013544791d1627e.png

 

Thoughts?

 

Tier V BBS are a tad slow and because of that I don’t play the Guilio all that often but here guns are very accurate and hit harder than I thought they would

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i've been playing my oct rev  regularly  and been doing well.  I have no issue with  t5 matches .   most of the grind is very short anyway, but t5 BBs are pretty dang strong .         CG  may be strong but I dont' have it.   my clan mate loves theirs.   I do fine enough in oct rev anyway.

t5bb1.png

Edited by centarina

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4 hours ago, ZARDOZ_II said:

Yes.  But the Gucci Caesar is my favorite T5 BB, where the Kongo is my least.  Started playing Kongo and it was enough to make me drop the IJN line.  I actually had better success in the Myogi than the Kongo (probably due to the MM) and actually enjoyed playing it more if you can believe that.

Odd.  Kongo is the one Tier V BB in which I really didn't mind Tier VII matches.  All the others, save Kongo and Giulio Cesare, being put in Tier VII means for a hard, likely not fun, game.

1 hour ago, thebigblue said:

It’s pays really well cuz it’s premium. From what I have read it’s also faster than Texas, arguably hits harder and is way more agile. All good reasons to play it. Texas AA is good but carriers are scarce and the rewards for downing lanes aren’t really amazing. If I had Giorgio I play the heck out of it.

Carriers are not rare at Tier V.

That said, Texas' slow speed makes everything harder.

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