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radical insane crazy idea. get rid of HE.

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I love it when a BB dcs a fire straight away, you get another fire going, then change to next BB or see if you can get one front, mid or rear.

I think when BB are on fire it should make the cross hair a bit fuzzy and their accuracy should be down a bit, till the fire is out

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Just now, Frederick_The_Great said:

Bbs shoot cruisers because they are free damage when they hit.  They overmatch their armor.  They are the ships they can dev strike with the most ease, especially  when they give you a nice broadside to shoot at.  This  is one of the first things you learn when you are new to the game, and see constantly in the low to mid tiers.   For a lot of cruisers, their max range is in the sweet spot for BBs and accuracy. 

For me i shoot them because i hate being lit on fire every salvo or two. I think that's why the majority shoot CA's first.

Try playing a Cleveland these days. The moment you get spotted they treat you like an atlanta.

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7 minutes ago, Frederick_The_Great said:

Cruisers counter DDs?  no, not really.  DDs have far better concealment at every tier compared to cruisers.  At tiers 8-10, outside of the RU gun boat DD line, DDs have 6km or so odd of concealment or less.  The lowest any cruiser can get is in the 8-9km range.  most have 9km+ and many are well over 10km.   Some have worse concealment than BBs. 

 

The only cruisers that can effectively counter DDs are radar cruisers.   Even then, the radar only temporarily exposes the DD.  Many radar ships have pretty lofty shells making their effective DPM at their max radar range meh.    After the radar runs out, he is free go where they please. 

 

The best counter to DDs are other DDs.  If a CV is in a match, then it is a CV.(pretty rare seeing CVs in mid to high tiers)  Cruisers can do good damage to a DD, if the DD is spotted, but outside the few ships with radar, that requires others to spot the DD for you or hope you catch the DD making a mistake.  you know what is even better at deleting DDs than a cruiser?  BB AP.   I do it all the time.  Even a few OP is pretty nasty.  Just need someone to spot the DD for you, or if you are the MO, use radar when you are close enough. 

 

BBs dont go full health to none in a min from fires.   That is pure hyperbole. 

also, how is the CA spotting you and farming you for so long in this 1v1 fight from behind an island?  the only thing that can spot you would be either radar, which means you are very close,  safe from them.  planes can spot you, but again that is only out to what, 10-12km.  you can either turn away or get close so they cant shoot over said island.  You can pop your own plane, and spot them when the plane is in their air detection range when they fire.  

 

That last lines makes me feel like you don't really play other types of ships.  Do you?  i doubt it.  I play DD, BB, and cruiser all the time.   I have or am working my way up all of the various lines except for 2 lines.

 

I play both BBs and DDs, with my two main ships being Montana and Harekaze (I like alternating between the two). I don't play CA/CL or CVs just because I have no interest in their playstyle.

Based on my experience, the ships that often kill my DDs are cruisers. Against other DDs, I either just slink back into stealth if I'm outgunned, or I just gun them down if they're a torpedo boat. But getting spotted if there's a cruiser in the vicinity? That's a dead DD right there. Against BBs or DDs, I feel like I can do many things with my own DDs, but against cruisers I feel pretty helpless and only one well-aimed torpedo salvo can save my butt. That cruiser ROF and their medium caliber guns are hell for a DD, and are not easy to escape from, unlike the fast but small caliber guns of other DDs or the slow-firing guns of a BB. If that's not a proof that cruisers easily counter DDs, I don't know what is. And that's before radar comes into the equation.

And of course BBs don't go from full health to none from fires alone. If a cruiser spams HE with their rate of fire, and then sets another batch of fires after DC extinguishes the initial batch of 2-3 fires, and maintains their barrage, then yes, a BB can go down in a minute or less during 1v1. I've experienced it before, I've seen my teammates pull it off against enemy BBs, and vice versa. It's understandable BBs feel helpless if they have to 1v1 a DD, but for them to also feel helpless when constantly set ablaze by 1v1-ing a cruiser is just too much and is an evidence that with the current fire mechanics, cruisers have unintentionally become too powerful.

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4 minutes ago, CriMiNaL__ said:

I love it when a BB dcs a fire straight away, you get another fire going, then change to next BB or see if you can get one front, mid or rear.

I think when BB are on fire it should make the cross hair a bit fuzzy and their accuracy should be down a bit, till the fire is out

When BB shells hit DD's and CA's they should take flooding damage. After all you have a huge object being hurled through the hull of a ship. Any AP hit should result in minor flooding and reduced movement speed that stacks for every hit due to taking on water.

Asking for silly things is fun. I can see why you do it.

Edited by xalmgrey

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1 minute ago, xalmgrey said:

For me i shoot them because i hate being lit on fire every salvo or two. I think that's why the majority shoot CA's first.

Try playing a Cleveland these days. The moment you get spotted they treat you like an atlanta.

i shoot whatever gives me the best target or whatever is the most important target at the time.

 

i have the cleveland.  played the last tier 6 ranked season with it being more or less my main ship all the way to rank 1.  the know the pains of playing that ship. 

 

you should try the pepsi.  its armor is made out of cola cans.  Every BB wants a piece of you.  Im looking forward to playing that ship again, when the split happens.   I was still a noob when i played the ship last. 

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45 minutes ago, CriMiNaL__ said:

Yes I agree remove all he,

but while were at it, make it so only secondaries can hit a DD not the main guns, 

Give all CA's torps, that had torps in RL.

Remove ridiculous stealth from BB and that all BB can be spotted from 17 km away.

Give all CA's true range of their guns and fire rate

Lower sigma of all BB by 1

Make all BB have RL re-loading times.

Reintroduce stealth firing

Put 460mm guns on the Nikolai and give it 120k hp with a 120aa rating top speed of 34 knots and a rudder shift time of 3 seconds with 25 km torps that do 90 knots and a detection of .3 km and make it a t8.

Give the Khab back its 15.6 km firing range and 10 km torps

Make it so a CV can division with another CV as its unfair they're singled out

Now, do you really want to remove HE from the game if we could have these other things.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Frederick_The_Great said:

Bbs shoot cruisers because they are free damage when they hit.  They overmatch their armor.  They are the ships they can dev strike with the most ease, especially  when they give you a nice broadside to shoot at.  This  is one of the first things you learn when you are new to the game, and see constantly in the low to mid tiers.   For a lot of cruisers, their max range is in the sweet spot for BBs and accuracy. 

see my above post, as a BB cant hit a DD with main guns, but your right a CA should have a huge hole in it.

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1 minute ago, Frederick_The_Great said:

it doesn't matter what changes they make to the game, BBs will still sit in back sniping.  You can give BBs 5 min radar that goes out to 20km, with laser secondaries and bubble that stops CVs from attacking them.  Some BBs will still sail around in back.  They also tend to be the people who instant DC one fire, never angle and get away with it and sail in straight lines for minutes at a time.   They are the same ones who will be full HP 15 min in, then the moment they get focused by the enemy team, die 2 min later. 

 

That is the case for every game.  majority never read the forums.   The devs read the forums supposedly, but we all know nothing will be changed for a long long time with AP or HE in terms of what they do.   we may get a change to ballistics, but that wont change what AP and HE go in general. 

The best game I’ve ever played with the most fun was mid tier me in my favorite ship Murmansk and another Cruiser with 2 BBs and a DD we were an unstoppable team,

me and my Cruiser buddy kept the DDs away from the BBS the DD spotted and the BBS fired on any threat to me... it’s called teamwork it prevents fires and a whole lotta other bad stuff from happening,if your regularly getting on lit on fire you should consider abandoning the lone wolf strategy and figure out what your doing ... wrong ... team play people... Clan battles teaches this

 

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1 minute ago, Frederick_The_Great said:

i shoot whatever gives me the best target or whatever is the most important target at the time.

 

i have the cleveland.  played the last tier 6 ranked season with it being more or less my main ship all the way to rank 1.  the know the pains of playing that ship. 

 

you should try the pepsi.  its armor is made out of cola cans.  Every BB wants a piece of you.  Im looking forward to playing that ship again, when the split happens.   I was still a noob when i played the ship last. 

I have the pepsi and tried it a few times and yeah...just no. After the awesome that is the cleveland pepsi belongs in tier 5 where its going after the split. Just yuck.

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The problem with the Pepsi, is, people are so used to the cleveland that going to the pepsi they think they can still play it like a cleveland, and they cannot.  Pepsi is a support ship 

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A more radical idea would be, take away HE from

  1. ALL BBs of any tier, premium or not,
  2. from all nations.
  • This will change the BB drivers in game behavior of using the incorrect shell type just out of bad habit.

My main concern is

  • BBs are not cruisers and
  • Cruisers are not BBs

That said, BBs in higher tier play are like over grown cruisers in there play style. Wargaming has not respected the duties of each type of class ship, now you have BBs doing extra work of the cruisers of using radar and setting fires. I say, stop the  exchange of duties between ship types and enhance the capabilities of there individual ship type to make them effective. Cheers guys !

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1 minute ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

The best game I’ve ever played with the most fun was mid tier me in my favorite ship Murmansk and another Cruiser with 2 BBs and a DD we were an unstoppable team,

me and my Cruiser buddy kept the DDs away from the BBS the DD spotted and the BBS fired on any threat to me... it’s called teamwork it prevents fires and a whole lotta other bad stuff from happening,if your regularly getting on lit on fire you should consider abandoning the lone wolf strategy and figure out what your doing ... wrong ... team play people... Clan battles teaches this

 

I may be in the Lone Wolves but how i play is far from solo. I always go with the lemming train if no one will respond / make plans. Being solo just gets you killed more often than naught specially as a BB.

We don't clan battle so...yeah dunno there. I'd try rank play but its never up it seems and i hear its just random with extra helpings of toxicity. I play randoms and ops. Sometimes you get team work in randoms and sometimes you get a bunch of potatoes. /shrug

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2 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

A more radical idea would be, take away HE from

  1. ALL BBs of any tier, premium or not,
  2. from all nations.

But what about my Conq (waa waa), it's all you do is fling HE, best I've ever done is 24 fires in a match

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4 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

A more radical idea would be, take away HE from

  1. ALL BBs of any tier, premium or not,
  2. from all nations.
  • This will change the BB drivers in game behavior of using the incorrect shell type just out of bad habit.

My main concern is

  • BBs are not cruisers and
  • Cruisers are not BBs

That said, BBs in higher tier play are like over grown cruisers in there play style. Wargaming has not respected the duties of each type of class ship, now you have BBs doing extra work of the cruisers of using radar and setting fires. I say, stop the  exchange of duties between ship types and enhance the capabilities of there individual ship type to make them effective. Cheers guys !

WG sure is blurring the lines with BC's like Shiny Horse and the new up and coming Russian BC. That doesn't help it will just promote more cross playing.

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4 minutes ago, Admiral_Snoop_Dogg said:

 

I play both BBs and DDs, with my two main ships being Montana and Harekaze (I like alternating between the two). I don't play CA/CL or CVs just because I have no interest in their playstyle.

Based on my experience, the ships that often kill my DDs are cruisers. Against other DDs, I either just slink back into stealth if I'm outgunned, or I just gun them down if they're a torpedo boat. But getting spotted if there's a cruiser in the vicinity? That's a dead DD right there. Against BBs or DDs, I feel like I can do many things with my own DDs, but against cruisers I feel pretty helpless and only one well-aimed torpedo salvo can save my butt. That cruiser ROF and their medium caliber guns are hell for a DD, and are not easy to escape from, unlike the fast but small caliber guns of other DDs or the slow-firing guns of a BB. If that's not a proof that cruisers easily counter DDs, I don't know what is. And that's before radar comes into the equation.

And of course BBs don't go from full health to none from fires alone. If a cruiser spams HE with their rate of fire, and then sets another batch of fires after DC extinguishes the initial batch of 2-3 fires, and maintains their barrage, then yes, a BB can go down in a minute or less during 1v1. I've experienced it before, I've seen my teammates pull it off against enemy BBs, and vice versa. It's understandable BBs feel helpless if they have to 1v1 a DD, but for them to also feel helpless when constantly set ablaze by 1v1-ing a cruiser is just too much and is an evidence that with the current fire mechanics, cruisers have unintentionally become too powerful.

cruiser DPM only really kicks in when you let it as a DD.  That means being close, and giving them a good target to hit.   Staying narrow and wiggling will make most of their shots, especially once you get out to the 10km+ range.  Outside of rail gun cruisers, you are fairly safe.   If you are getting very close to a cruiser as a DD, then you have to make your torps count.  You are taking a very big risk doing so.   You normally shouldn't be that close.  You should just keep them spotted, so your BBs can smack them for you.

 

It takes a long time for cruiser raw damage to really be felt.  a lot of shells break without doing any damage.  especially when nose in, as many shells will break on the guns.  if they hit the very nose of your ship, they can do more damage. 

 

 

you should try playing cruisers more.   I think you will realize how flimsy they are.  it will also let you see what its like to play from their PoV, so when you play as a DD or BB, you know what to expect from an enemy cruiser. 

 

8 minutes ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

The best game I’ve ever played with the most fun was mid tier me in my favorite ship Murmansk and another Cruiser with 2 BBs and a DD we were an unstoppable team,

me and my Cruiser buddy kept the DDs away from the BBS the DD spotted and the BBS fired on any threat to me... it’s called teamwork it prevents fires and a whole lotta other bad stuff from happening,if your regularly getting on lit on fire you should consider abandoning the lone wolf strategy and figure out what your doing ... wrong ... team play people... Clan battles teaches this

 

teamwork is underated.  you shouldn't be going to caps solo in a BB unless you have to or know its empty.  being with teammates covers each others weaknesses. 

 

8 minutes ago, xalmgrey said:

I have the pepsi and tried it a few times and yeah...just no. After the awesome that is the cleveland pepsi belongs in tier 5 where its going after the split. Just yuck.

it got buffed around the time i was grinding it or just after.   it was before the captain skill changes, which meant the CE skill was 5 points rather than 4.  i didnt have the credits to buy the gun upgrade either at the time, so i skipped it.   the cleve is a great ship tho.

 

 

10 203mm guns is not something to sniff at tho for tier 6.  it can over match cruiser armor and lead to cits.  not to bad vs BBs either if you are close, but you dont really want to be that close. 

 

11 minutes ago, CriMiNaL__ said:

 

see my above post, as a BB cant hit a DD with main guns, but your right a CA should have a huge hole in it.

sure you can.  Especially in the higher tiers where the DDs are bigger and BBs tend to be either more accurate and/or have more guns.  you should always shoot DDs when they are inside a decent range.  You want to shoot the DD as you may not know when they will be spotted again.  you want to help your DDs get the advantage in the area. 

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46 minutes ago, xalmgrey said:

For me i shoot them because i hate being lit on fire every salvo or two. I think that's why the majority shoot CA's first.

Try playing a Cleveland these days. The moment you get spotted they treat you like an atlanta.

We don't treat anybody like an Atlanta. Trust.

  • Funny 1

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BB's already have longer than real life reload times. The Iowa could shoot 2 rounds per minute. That would be 15 second reload in game, so it's already doubled. Destroyers already can't be hit by battleship main guns from outside 5 km. Maybe 7 km if you go in a straight line too long, but that's on you. I don't know what the nikolai is, but if it's a tiny little destroyer and you fired an 18 inch gun from it, it'd tip over. Those guns weigh more than a dd.

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3 hours ago, 44_percenter said:

The Iowa could shoot 2 rounds per minute. That would be 15 second reload in game

If my maths is correct that's a 30 second reload, if it was 15 second reload that would be 4 rpm

 

3 hours ago, 44_percenter said:

I don't know what the nikolai

T4 Russian BB

 

3 hours ago, 44_percenter said:

Destroyers already can't be hit by battleship main guns from outside 5 km. Maybe 7 km if you go in a straight line too long

You must have poor aim, as a lot of american BB can hit quite well at 15km

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19 minutes ago, CriMiNaL__ said:

You must have poor aim, as a lot of american BB can hit quite well at 15km

I second this, i only one salvo deleted a dd once, in the new mex.  but i can get at least one shell of a salvo into a dd consistently (at max range, incld spotter) wyoming through to colorado.

At 5km, i usually can do 80-90%hp, one salvo. Basically this is secondary range, and selecting the dd finishes em

And i am not even good.

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12 hours ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Oh boy, more battleship mains whining for cruiser nerfs via demanding the removal of the only thing cruisers can use against battleships.

Oh didn't you hear?  The game is called World of Battleships

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A note from the OP..

I do play Battleships.   And I'm even mucked a round a bit with cruisers.  But I self identify as a DD main.   For tose that were looking at my stats look at the number of fights in tier 7,8, and 9 DD (IJN specifically)

And as a rule I rarely fire HE when I drive my BB's anyway..  

Maybe make HE the gold ammo of warships play.. 5 doubloons per broadside...  

I do realize that HE has it's "power" in this game as a balancing mechanic but we see it far to often.. and when I do see BB's that wont move up to where they can both hit more accurately and land more shells because of some other BB or Cruiser slinging HE..

uhg.

I do know I would really like to see a change on this because of how it effect player behavior.     One of my favorite ships to go stomping in is the tier-VIII Akizuki which I've set up for long range shooting.  I'll sit of 12 to 15 Km and just open up.  I do run IFHE.  I'll typically fire on a BB till a fire starts and switch targets to another BB ( or cruiser).   rinse and repeat.   I've turned a BB push  around just from the number of fire and insane volume of fire the ship can put out.   The only real reason I even bother with IFHE is to cut down on shells wasted due to shatters.  The shell pen instead of shattering.  100mm HE rounds tend to be a bit more fragile then their AP cousins (which I loos half my shots that hot to shatters and it really doesn't matter that much what I'm shooting at.  Other Akizuki driver know exactly of what I speak.

Still  HE is overused in the game and in its mechanics..

And it's not about being a BB main or a Cruiser Main or a DD main or even a CV main.   I'm not saying all this to carry a flag for one particular ship class but how it effects play and player tactics.   Yes this isn't a naval combat sim.   I play sims.. they are not "action" games and most of you playing warships haven't the patience to play a naval sim and do well. (even a small naval sim battle can run a couple hours..)   I know "realistic" wont wash here.  But certainly would not mind seeing something that cuts down on the insane amount of HE getting flung.  It's a look and feel thing, and it's always felt utterly backasswards to me.

 

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5 hours ago, 44_percenter said:

BB's already have longer than real life reload times. The Iowa could shoot 2 rounds per minute. That would be 15 second reload in game, so it's already doubled. Destroyers already can't be hit by battleship main guns from outside 5 km. Maybe 7 km if you go in a straight line too long, but that's on you. I don't know what the nikolai is, but if it's a tiny little destroyer and you fired an 18 inch gun from it, it'd tip over. Those guns weigh more than a dd.

 

I kill DD's all the time in when I drive BB's.  I want the DD's dead before they get into torp range.  And I've popped DD's at 20 Km  (sail in a strait line at a constant speed..please..)   Favorite BB to go hunt Destroyer with.. Fuso and the new Lyon..  that nuff at the target something bound to stick.  4 rounds from a BB can hurt you.. 4 torp hits from a DD can kill you.  So yea, learn to shoot at and hit DD's at range..

It's a skill to develop like any oher

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I've got an even crazier idea: Get rid of citadels. I mean, what's the point except to delete cruisers? If a battleship doesn't have special turtleback armor, or citadels lowered so far below the waterline that they're almost inaccessible, then they can always fall back on the (nearly) lost art of angling against the enemy. The only real impact citadels have on the game is that they make cruisers so very easy to delete from very nearly any range and any angle. Ask yourself -- Are citadels really necessary? What do they add to the game? Who benefits? Get rid of them, for cruisers or for everyone, and start making the game fun again.

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13 hours ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Oh boy, more battleship mains whining for cruiser nerfs via demanding the removal of the only thing cruisers can use against battleships.

Seconded.

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