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TL_Warlord_Roff

radical insane crazy idea. get rid of HE.

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Naw really just get rid of HE entirely.

 Every thing that comes out of a gun barrel is AP.. AP has a fire starting chance dependent upon the size of the shells bursting charge and where it hits.  taking a round in the paint locker can be a very very bad thing, or the torpedo fuel, or aviation gas supply for your aircraft.   Make fires dependent on "Where The Shell Hits"

High explosive rounds is for causing concussive shock to equipment and personal, ie: killing soft targets out in the real world.    The only reason real world war ships ever shot HE rounds at another ship is because they were out of AP.   

It really a peculiarity of this game I have never ever liked.

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Just now, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

Naw really just get rid of HE entirely.

 Every thing that comes out of a gun barrel is AP.. AP has a fire starting chance dependent upon the size of the shells bursting charge and where it hits.  taking a round in the paint locker can be a very very bad thing, or the torpedo fuel, or aviation gas supply for your aircraft.   Make fires dependent on "Where The Shell Hits"

High explosive rounds is for causing concussive shock to equipment and personal, ie: killing soft targets out in the real world.    The only reason real world war ships ever shot HE rounds at another ship is because they were out of AP.   

It really a peculiarity of this game I have never ever liked.

Fire is the big equalizer in this game, take away HE it will ruin the game..AP does not start fires

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Agree 100%. HE was almost never used in ship to ship engagements.

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Annnnnnnd.... NO

There are already too many goofballs backing up in their BBs. If there was no HE it would look like the BBs and CAs were line dancing. All facing the same way.

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3 minutes ago, Rekkoff said:

Agree 100%. HE was almost never used in ship to ship engagements.

Very true, but also irrelevant. This is not a sim.

....Rekkof? 

PS Rekkof?

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Oh boy, more battleship mains whining for cruiser nerfs via demanding the removal of the only thing cruisers can use against battleships.

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HE was normally used for bombardment although there are examples of it being used in ship to ship combat. However it was never used to start fires, AP did just fine at that. What I would do is make HE a low but consistent damage producer to use when AP is not performing while drastically reducing fire chance and give AP a similar but low fire chance.

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In closed Beta, AP shells could cause impact damage even if they did not penetrate.  The result was that no one ever used HE due to the fact fast firing guns could just melt any ship no matter where they hit.  It was removed, and bounced/shattered shells were introduced.  HE can always use some balancing, but to get rid of it entirely, is asking for something far more risky.  Now, the HE battleships, yeah, that might need another look... but even those have issues as most of their damaged is repaired.

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17 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Oh boy, more battleship mains whining for cruiser nerfs via demanding the removal of the only thing cruisers can use against battleships.

Or maybe just an idea thrown out into the mix to see what happens?

so quick to say "bb mains"

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arguing about how things were done IRL automatically makes your argument void. this is not a sim.

there are health bars. there are capture points. and there are specific shells for specific types of damage. this is a video game, and an arcade one at that.

any good video game makes you think about how to approach an enemy. taking away HE simplifies the game in the wrong way. if you were to suggest balancing HE shells on specific ships that are over-performing with them, most would probably agree. but to take it away entirely? you're looking for a completely different game.

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32 minutes ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

Fire is the big equalizer in this game, take away HE it will ruin the game..AP does not start fires

Do AP shells explode?  Yes.  Then AP shells should be able to start fires.

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Change all HE to IPHE

Then put in an HE x% at skill 4.

You can thank me for this suggestion by sending remuneration to "families of ships killed by fire"

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45 minutes ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

Fire is the big equalizer in this game, take away HE it will ruin the game..AP does not start fires

There are better ways than how fire works. For one it should never be impossible to put a fire out. I have suggested that the oldest fire burning should have a small chance to go out with each tic reducing that helpless feeling that comes when you put several fires out and then as soon as the immunity period ends you get lit up again with several fires again.

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This is a decent idea. Fires make sense on old wooden battleships like dreadnought, or even ironclads, but on modern steel battleships, I can't figure out what the [edite] is burning. Did I leave a stack of logs on the deck? Someone forget a few drums of oil in front of the anchor chain capstan? Seems like there are way more fires than there should be. How about napalm shells if you want to start a fire on a steel battleship. And have the 'fire prevention' skill actually do something, or give us something useful instead. I only have it on one ship that regularly burns to the waterline, and my other ships that don't have it, never get more than 3 fires anyway. Smaller HE shells really should have a lower chance to start fires anyway, unless they're using ANFO for explosive or something. TNT detonates and then it's gone. I think most would agree that fire is cancer in this game. A lot of weird [edit] goes on in the name of balancing, like a 58,000 ton ship with 8 boilers can't make more smoke than a 3,000 ton ship that's probably powered by a diesel engine...

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It's an interesting idea for sure - I'm sure WG thought of it. I personally think it wouldn't work.

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But if HE was removed-

 

How could i do my job as a Cruiser? How will i damage things as a DD when my torps are reloading or miss? 

Wouldn't giving AP the properties of HE just making it as annoying as HE itself? 

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Ships shot HE at each other all the time - both nose fuse (what we have now) for soft targets (torpedo boats, DDs, etc.) and base fuse (semi-AP, kind of like IFHE in game) for use against moderately armored ships (think CL and CA). Full AP would almost always overpenetrate (fail to fuse) anything short of the main belt on a CA or BB, and with a smaller bursting charge would do less damage compared to a Base-Fuse HE detonating in the same compartment. 

When BBs shot AP against soft targets it is because it was already loaded/in the racks and it was better to fire it while bringing up the HE shells for the next salvo. 

Removing HE would not work unless penetration mechanics were significantly changed, as it would make CL and DD guns almost useless against larger ships and would even cause CAs to struggle. 

For some reason, WG balanced the game around CA/CL being able to gun-duel a BB (at higher tiers) and actually do more DPS over time by fires, HE damage and the odd AP volley when the angles are favorable. If HE was removed, Cruisers would need to be re-balanced across the board, especially 155m-armed and the IJN/French 203mm-armed cruisers. The RN and USN already have superior AP, so they would be hurt less (RN not at all) but they would still need to be somewhat reworked. 

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1 hour ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

Naw really just get rid of HE entirely.

 Every thing that comes out of a gun barrel is AP.. AP has a fire starting chance dependent upon the size of the shells bursting charge and where it hits.  taking a round in the paint locker can be a very very bad thing, or the torpedo fuel, or aviation gas supply for your aircraft.   Make fires dependent on "Where The Shell Hits"

High explosive rounds is for causing concussive shock to equipment and personal, ie: killing soft targets out in the real world.    The only reason real world war ships ever shot HE rounds at another ship is because they were out of AP.   

It really a peculiarity of this game I have never ever liked.

On the BBs I would agree. BBs should not have the HE. Let the Cruisers have it and the DDs. Sick of seeing BBs on my team shooting HE into the boardside of a enemy BB that should be deleted. 

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Removing HE would eliminate the closest thing to a equalizer that CA/CLs have against BBs. British CLs which only use AP are proof of this. While they can still do gun damage to BBs, if the BB is angled much the shells just bounce.

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43 minutes ago, Akeno017 said:

Or maybe just an idea thrown out into the mix to see what happens?

so quick to say "bb mains"

Ok then, well I did look him up and he is a BB main. Played over 1500 Fuso battles. Most likely big weeb, and he isn't very good.

Despite that I actually don't hate his proposal but it would take a pretty big overhaul to make it work somehow.

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53 minutes ago, cavscout1739 said:

Change all HE to IPHE

Then put in an HE x% at skill 4.

You can thank me for this suggestion by sending remuneration to "families of ships killed by fire"

Actually, not all HE firing ships really need IFHE.  But there are a small number of ships where the need for IFHE is rather desperate and IMO should be cooked into those ship's HE from the start.

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