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crazyferret23777

Question about HE vs AP on BB's?

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When I play my bb's I almost never use HE as people have said that HE spammers are annoying and usually terrible at the game. My question is when using a BB what is a good mix of AP to HE usage? IS the -%50 reload capt. point worth getting? Thanks

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About 99% of the time in my BBs I use AP. The shell switching skill would rarely be useful on most BBs, especially when so many other skills are far more critical to have.

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Dont bother with shell switching. With so much time to plan, you should know what shell you need. 
 

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German and Japanese Battleships could have their HE Shells removed and no one would notice a negative Impact on their gameplay. The only exception would be Scharnhorst, which might Need HE once every five games.

American Battleships at higher Tiers can make use of their HE Shells at times, but it's really situational and more like a last ditch effort. For example when the only target is a gow on Battleship at range.

British Battleships depend, from all the lines they are probably the ones that would benefit the most from Expert Loader. Queen Elizabeth, Warspite, Hood and 457mm Conqueror (lol) are rather AP focused. The other ships can use both Shell types depending on their Situation.

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35 minutes ago, crazyferret23777 said:

When I play my bb's I almost never use HE as people have said that HE spammers are annoying and usually terrible at the game. My question is when using a BB what is a good mix of AP to HE usage? IS the -%50 reload capt. point worth getting? Thanks

1.  The Expert Loader skill is not worth taking.  If all your guns are loaded, just fire whatever you have loaded and then reload with the other shell type if you feel the need.

2. I don't think that the question of AP vs HE is about what's a good mix.  For all BBs except RN BBs, it's almost always going to AP, except perhaps if you're facing something like a bow-on enemy BB then HE is a good option.  Another time when it might be worth using HE is if you're in a bottom tier BB that has relatively small guns for its tier (like the Lion at tier 7), and you're firing at higher tier BBs at long range, it can be worthwhile to spam HE in that situation, because those relatively small caliber guns my bounce too much for your taste, but HE will usually get you some damage plus have a rather decent chance of starting a fire.

For most tech tree RN BB's, it's a little different. Most of them will probably want to spam HE most of the time, particularly when  facing BBs and particularly at longer ranges.  But when you get to closer ranges where your guns' penetration will get better and you probably want a better alpha strike, use AP.  Another thing to remember about RN BBs and their HE is that starting fires is a major component of their damage.  But fire is a damage over time (DoT) attack, and it requires plenty of time for that damage to pile up, which is why at shorter ranges, if you need to do a major damage strike with a single volley, you need to use AP.

 

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HE for BBs under the following circumstances:

1) Most of the time on British units, with the exception of when you are presented with broadside higher-tier cruisers and some broadside battleships.

2) Against bow-on, stationary, heavily bow-tanked BBs such as Richelieu and North Carolina.

3) Against destroyers, but ONLY if the swap isn't going to cost you the shot entirely (IE, if it's looking like you're going to get a five second window before he vanishes or torps you, fire AP). Also, for the moment, AP is the ammunition of choice against bow-on/stern-on destroyers, as transverse hull shots will cause the AP to detonate.  

Anything else is pretty much a self-identifier for newbs/bads. 

Edited by AviationBattleship_Hyuga

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Not worth it, change shell types after firing

The worst that can happen is you end up firing a less than ideal shell type for a volley then switch.

Given that changing ammo with the skill is not instant, usually 12-15 seconds, often it would have been better to get that instant shot off as that still is a long time to wait having done nothing in the heat of the battle.

No perk fire then swap can get you 2 salvos in 1 full reload cycle assuming you were loaded at the start.

Perk swapping, it takes 1.5 reload cycles to fire the same number of shells.

 

So in a way the trade the perk create is fewer shells on target but a different shell then was initially loaded.

Just plan ahead, and don’t sweat about firing a less than ideal ammunition once.

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it also depends on the BB and the Range involved.

 

ex: Roma has pretty high velocity guns, While AP is the primary load, if you see alot of overpens, you might want to switch to HE.

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I think the QE is the only rn bb you should not be shooting he in the majority of the time (check its fire prob) other than that i always shoot ap in bbs unless i’m specifically hunting dds, for example at the end of a match, but if not even ap hits to dds frim bb guns do damage, i would not lose time to reload if ap is already loaded.

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Just now, monpetitloup said:

I think the QE is the only rn bb you should not be shooting he in the majority of the time (check its fire prob) other than that i always shoot ap in bbs unless i’m specifically hunting dds, for example at the end of a match, but if not even ap hits to dds frim bb guns do damage, i would not lose time to reload if ap is already loaded.

Hood and Warspite are definitely excluded. 

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The only time I use HE on a BB againts DD's is at low tiers. 

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The only time I really use HE is when I'm DD hunting.  Otherwise I find I get a higher average damage using AP than HE (even taking into account fire damage).

I've been in more than one fight with other BBs where if they has used AP, I'd have lost. 

I wouldn't take the captain skill on a BB when there are other, better, skills to take.

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3 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

About 99% of the time in my BBs I use AP. The shell switching skill would rarely be useful on most BBs, especially when so many other skills are far more critical to have.

Depends on the Captain, I have the Ex Steven Seagal driving my Premium BB's and with the shell switching skill, I can swap from HE to AP in 8 seconds. I have found it very useful.

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3 hours ago, crazyferret23777 said:

When I play my bb's I almost never use HE as people have said that HE spammers are annoying and usually terrible at the game. My question is when using a BB what is a good mix of AP to HE usage? IS the -%50 reload capt. point worth getting? Thanks

For me, I will use AP on BB's and cruisers. HE on destroyers. I will also switch and use HE when you have a BB bow tanking and backing up. HE to the superstructure does consistent damage and sets fires. When he repairs I will use HE on him until I set another fire than switch back to AP. There are times when HE is warranted in a BB, knowing when to use each ammo type just takes time.

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3 hours ago, crazyferret23777 said:

When I play my bb's I almost never use HE as people have said that HE spammers are annoying and usually terrible at the game. My question is when using a BB what is a good mix of AP to HE usage? IS the -%50 reload capt. point worth getting? Thanks

I almost always start with AP...and use it most of the time throughout a game.  Reload captain skill is worthless.  If I need to switch to HE, it's right after I fire a salvo, and the reload skill only works if all your guns are ready to fire.

 

 

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Must be nice getting consistent damage with AP instead of consistent lolfail overpens, especially against softer targets.

2 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

There are times when HE is warranted in a BB, knowing when to use each ammo type just takes time.

Exactly.

Never have agreed with the AP only crowd.

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3 hours ago, crazyferret23777 said:

When I play my bb's I almost never use HE as people have said that HE spammers are annoying and usually terrible at the game. My question is when using a BB what is a good mix of AP to HE usage? IS the -%50 reload capt. point worth getting? Thanks

Fire AP most of the times, BB HE (out of RN HE) is pretty meh. Its often better to change targtes than switch to HE. IMO that EL skill is a waste for BBs, the reload is still too high, its better to fire what you have loaded and than switch ammo for the next salvo. 

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WOW,

Just plain WOW.....

I feel reasonably successful when playing  BBs. I have seen alot of players who do not understand the basics of firing certain types of shells.

HE can be helpful even at high tiers when firing at BB coming head on or going away and only showing their stern.

HE can be valuable at first because of DDs and Cruisers becoming early torp threats.

A captain should never give up a chance to change shells quickly and to give up a one point skill and this to me seems like a bad idea. The ability to switch quick comes in handy.

HEis good  also for citadels, and can start fires; meaning you can change targets and gain damage on multiple ships causing them to use heals,repairs and this allows other ships who are firing to be more effective.

Ap citadels are not always available due to ship type and angle. SO why would limit limit your self to AP only waiting for a broadside that may never show itself.

If you think getting 3400 an AP salve is enough, I have acquired more than that in a BB(German or British) with HE.

AP goes through some ships(over pen) and I feel that and i have done this in my Warspite,Monarch,Montana and others that i can chase down a DD and turn on it when I have enough health or just to keep it honest.

Bow on, lean in, all in , full speed and chase its little hull down and remove them. In one battle I killed three who were attempting to eliminate me

SO HE, you betcha, i will take 3400 and fire over 3400 anytime.

 

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3 hours ago, Crucis said:

1.  The Expert Loader skill is not worth taking.  If all your guns are loaded, just fire whatever you have loaded and then reload with the other shell type if you feel the need.

2. I don't think that the question of AP vs HE is about what's a good mix.  For all BBs except RN BBs, it's almost always going to AP, except perhaps if you're facing something like a bow-on enemy BB then HE is a good option.  Another time when it might be worth using HE is if you're in a bottom tier BB that has relatively small guns for its tier (like the Lion at tier 7), and you're firing at higher tier BBs at long range, it can be worthwhile to spam HE in that situation, because those relatively small caliber guns my bounce too much for your taste, but HE will usually get you some damage plus have a rather decent chance of starting a fire.

For most tech tree RN BB's, it's a little different. Most of them will probably want to spam HE most of the time, particularly when  facing BBs and particularly at longer ranges.  But when you get to closer ranges where your guns' penetration will get better and you probably want a better alpha strike, use AP.  Another thing to remember about RN BBs and their HE is that starting fires is a major component of their damage.  But fire is a damage over time (DoT) attack, and it requires plenty of time for that damage to pile up, which is why at shorter ranges, if you need to do a major damage strike with a single volley, you need to use AP.

 

Agree.  I'd never consider the Expert Loader skill, simply fire what you have and switch on the reload if warranted.

I will sometimes load HE at start of a match if I'm bottom tier BB and / or expecting a lot of DDs to be my first targets.  That said, it doesn't always work out as regularly you will see the chance to take a broadside cruiser if you only had AP loaded...  Bottom line you can always find situations where you wish you had the other shell type loaded, but >80% of the time in BB I'd say AP is the best default choice to start from (and adjust depending on the situation from there).

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I'd fire HE in my BBs if I'm going to enter close combat against destroyers, enemy battleship bowtanking, or in the Nelson...

As for Expert Loader...must've used it quite a few times with Seagal on NY...nice surprise for someone expecting overpons when they eat a full salvo of HE...

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Generally better things to use a skill point on even on RN BBs. As for the actual Ammo, use if you think you need to whenever. 

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9 minutes ago, groomsiebelle said:

Agree.  I'd never consider the Expert Loader skill, simply fire what you have and switch on the reload if warranted.

I will sometimes load HE at start of a match if I'm bottom tier BB and / or expecting a lot of DDs to be my first targets.  That said, it doesn't always work out as regularly you will see the chance to take a broadside cruiser if you only had AP loaded...  Bottom line you can always find situations where you wish you had the other shell type loaded, but >80% of the time in BB I'd say AP is the best default choice to start from (and adjust depending on the situation from there).

Again it depends on the Captain. I have the former Steven Seagal and he gets special buffs to expert loader and turret rotation. With his buff, I can switch from AP to HE in just under 8 seconds. With this particular captain, it would be stupid not to take these skills. 

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I usually start out with HE because I like to try and get off a few volleys at DDs and cruisers that push way out in front then switch to AP when the BBs get in range.

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I'm probably about 75% AP and 25% HE in my BBs. KGV is the opposite. The main thing I use HE for on my BBs is killing bow campers, because AP is gonna do next to nothing. It is pretty amusing watching them try to get out of the terrible position they put themselves in, because their only options are to keep slowly reversing while I farm them with HE and fire damage, or to make an awkward broadside turn in front of everybody. I used to hate seeing bow campers because I was afraid of using HE in a BB, but now I love them. It is immensely satisfying to BBQ some guy that thinks they are playing "optimally."

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