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Ulthwey

Sooo ... the Gascan ...

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Does this ship have ANYTHING going for it? 

With tier 8 MM being the **** that it is, and ships like Alabama, Tirpitz and Kii already being much better choices for a tier 8 premium ... does the Gascan have anything going for it? Guns seem meh, secondaries are a huge disappointment according to most and apparently its burns like a "gas can".

Am I missing anything? Does this thing have a carrot? And if it does what is it supposed to be?

****

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25km range and great penetration. It's great practice for republique

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11 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

She looks really cool with The Republic camo.

yeah but so does Richelieu...

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3 minutes ago, SaidNoOneEver said:

yeah but so does Richelieu...

So when do we get the Vichy France camo? That will be historically accurate for sure.

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41 minutes ago, TheGirlFromIpanema said:

So when do we get the Vichy France camo? That will be historically accurate for sure.

Sure, but it would be grossly politically incorrect—sadly! :Smile_trollface:

Actually, I don't think the Vichy French Navy had any particular camouflage schemes or naval jacks; they existed for such a brief span of time before they were disbanded in the wake of Operation Torch and the liberating of Algeria and other French-controlled territories in North Africa.

Besides, the "regular" premium camouflages for French BBs and the Gascan are butt-ugly.

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54 minutes ago, SaidNoOneEver said:

yeah but so does Richelieu...

For once man, I'm trying to be positive!

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Here's a positive thing about the Gascogne: unlike the Nelson/KGV situation, in the Gascogne/Richelieu situation you can get the best one for free (like, really free, not "eternal grind but technically free" free). Aside from the plane and the faster heal cooldown, Richelieu gets the same advantages of the Gascogne with fewer drawbacks. It's a good thing that the Gascogne doesn't outshines the Richelieu. She may be somewhat worse, but it's better than having her be ridiculously OP while Richelieu gets nothing. As it stands, the only reason to buy the Gascogne is to have a "better" trainer for your french BB commander.

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IMO there is no reason to buy Gascogne, there are better choices, Alabama, Tirpitz and Roma are better ships T8 BBs and Dunkerque is a better and cheaper french BB. 

 

IMO Gascogne (and other french BBs) lack some identity.

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7 minutes ago, Xlap said:

IMO Gascogne (and other french BBs) lack some identity.

And I for one am glad for it. No silly gimmicks that define the line, just a solid baseline balanced line.

As for what Gascogne has got going for her, if you want a French BB trainer she's the only option. She's no worse than the tech tree ship, and is a solid ship that does't rely on gimmicks to stand out.

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28 minutes ago, Lert said:

As for what Gascogne has got going for her, if you want a French BB trainer she's the only option. 

Well Dunkerque does exist... :P But that being said, Gascogne is more similar to every ship in the line except Richelieu... so the skills you learn in Gascogne are more relevant than those you learn in Dunkerque.

 

 

38 minutes ago, Xlap said:

IMO Gascogne (and other french BBs) lack some identity.

Good. Its ok for ships to be average. Its ok for ships to not have some gimmick and for them to stand on their own. Gascogne, by all rights, appears to be a slightly more flexible Richelieu. No worse, no better just different. 

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42 minutes ago, Lert said:

And I for one am glad for it. No silly gimmicks that define the line, just a solid baseline balanced line.

While i agree with the "no silly gimmicks" part, and i like that too. This also means there is no reason to play the french BB like over the others. They can do what the french BBs do, but better. 

42 minutes ago, Lert said:

As for what Gascogne has got going for her, if you want a French BB trainer she's the only option. She's no worse than the tech tree ship, and is a solid ship that does't rely on gimmicks to stand out.

I disagree, Dunkerque is a better french BB IMO, and cheaper too.

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17 minutes ago, Xlap said:

While i agree with the "no silly gimmicks" part, and i like that too. This also means there is no reason to play the french BB like over the others. They can do what the french BBs do, but better.

Are you implying that gimmicks are a factual improvement, and a line with gimmicks is automatically better than one without?

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5 hours ago, Ulthwey said:

Does this ship have ANYTHING going for it? 

With tier 8 MM being the piece of sh*t that it is, and ships like Alabama, Tirpitz and Kii already being much better choices for a tier 8 premium ... does the Gascan have anything going for it? Guns seem meh, secondaries are a huge disappointment according to most and apparently its burns like a "gas can".

Am I missing anything? Does this thing have a carrot? And if it does what is it supposed to be?

You love the Roma, it's like a t8 clone of Roma, performance-wise. Handles t10 randoms nicely.

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48 minutes ago, Lert said:

Are you implying that gimmicks are a factual improvement, and a line with gimmicks is automatically better than one without?

What im saying is, liking or not, gimmicks are already in the game, they were already used to balance the game. So when a new line is released, this line needs to have some kind of thing going for her, stats or gimmicks to be competitive. And the french line has neither of them, ship stats are average. To players that already played other lines the french line is uninteressant. 

 

What the french BBs have going for them? Guns? Nah, they are meh. Armor? What armor? Secundaries or AA? They are good, but nothing special. Concealment? No. Mobility? Maybe, but mobility in a BB is not that important as the others. I can find better options on other lines. 

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1 minute ago, Xlap said:

What im saying is, liking or not, gimmicks are already in the game, they were already used to balance the game. So when a new line is released, this line needs to have some kind of thing going for her, stats or gimmicks to be competitive. And the french line has neither of them, ship stats are average. To players that already played other lines the french line is uninteressant. 

 

What the french BBs have going for them? Guns? Nah, they are meh. Armor? What armor? Secundaries or AA? They are good, but nothing special. Concealment? No. Mobility? Maybe, but mobility in a BB is not that important as the others. I can find better options on other lines. 

Respectfully, I disagree. I need only point at Giulio Cesare. It doesn't have gimmicks, yet it's hilariously OP. You don't need anything to set you apart, you don't need any one quality to be better than everything else, if you don't have pronounced weaknesses to cover. There is such a thing as balance without gimmicks, and I'd personally rather have ships and trees balanced by their own base performance than gimmicks pulling them up higher and trying to cover for weaknesses that a properly balanced line does not need covering.

In the end though, there are gimmicky lines and non-gimmicky lines. So there are tech trees for everyone. You want gimmicks to cover for weaknesses? There are plenty of ships for you to play. Doesn't mean that ever line in the game has to be that way.

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14 minutes ago, Lert said:

Respectfully, I disagree. I need only point at Giulio Cesare. It doesn't have gimmicks, yet it's hilariously OP. You don't need anything to set you apart, you don't need any one quality to be better than everything else, if you don't have pronounced weaknesses to cover. There is such a thing as balance without gimmicks, and I'd personally rather have ships and trees balanced by their own base performance than gimmicks pulling them up higher and trying to cover for weaknesses that a properly balanced line does not need covering.

In the end though, there are gimmicky lines and non-gimmicky lines. So there are tech trees for everyone. You want gimmicks to cover for weaknesses? There are plenty of ships for you to play. Doesn't mean that ever line in the game has to be that way.

You are missing my point here, a line or ship doesnt need to have gimmicks if the line/ship has good stats behind it, either balance through stats or gimmicks. Cesare doesnt have any "special gimmicks", but she has good stats. Good guns, good mobility and good concealment, these three combined makes Cesare a great ship. 

 

Back to the french line, the line doesnt have a gimmick or good stats to balance them. French stats are meh, there are better stats in other lines. French gimmick is EB, which is also meh, not important for a BB. The lack of great stats or gimmicks makes the french BB line uninteressant compared to other BB lines. 

 

Back to Gascogne, compared to the other T8 BBs that i have. Roma has great armor and concealment. Tirpitz/Bismarck tank as hell and great secundaries, NC and Amagi have great guns, Monarch has great concealment, reload and RN HE. What does Gascogne or Richelieu has? Why i would play Gascogne (or Richelieu) over any of the other T8 BBs?

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Roma, good armor? Marred by a citadel the size of a skyscraper. Concealment is not important on a BB, since your job is mainly to keep your guns singing anyways.

Tirpitz and Bismarck have good secondaries and are tanky as well, but lag behind in main firepower.

NC and Amagi have great guns, but NC is slow and Amagi is soft.

Every BB you named is better at something than Richelieu and Gascogne, but Richelieu and Gascogne can hold their own in every category and don't have pronounced weaknesses like the others. They're balanced, not specialized.

Fully agreed that EB is a weak gimmick, that's why I'm not even counting is as a gimmick.

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i assumed the gascan had crappy guns in my Missouri, i regretted that assumption. Only took him 3 salvos from 15km, RNG? No I wasn't sailing broadside to the enemy team, he was flanking us with his speed.

Flanking worked damn good, i should find that replay and Youtube that part of the match. He seemed to play the ship to it's strengths perfectly.

 

Edit: Damnit, I deleted a bunch of replays last night and that was one of them.

EJ

Edited by HorrorRoach

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1 hour ago, Lert said:

Roma, good armor? Marred by a citadel the size of a skyscraper. Concealment is not important on a BB, since your job is mainly to keep your guns singing anyways.

The good armor and concealment allows you to mitigate the citadel issue with good positioning and angling. 

 

Concelament is good to get better firing positions, surpise attacks, dictate the engagement/disengage. With 30 secs reload time and 20 secs gun bloom, you can vanish relatively easy.

1 hour ago, Lert said:

Tirpitz and Bismarck have good secondaries and are tanky as well, but lag behind in main firepower.

The firepower is pretty much the same, troll dispersion but with better reload and better gun placement. But they are much tankier.

1 hour ago, Lert said:

NC and Amagi have great guns, but NC is slow and Amagi is soft.

The french BBs are as soft as Amagi, but Amagi has much better guns. NC is slow, but the speed is good enough for a BB and NC is tnakier and has much better guns. 

1 hour ago, Lert said:

Every BB you named is better at something than Richelieu and Gascogne, but Richelieu and Gascogne can hold their own in every category and don't have pronounced weaknesses like the others. They're balanced, not specialized.

I disagree, Tirpitz/Bismarck have similar guns but are much tankier with much better secundaries. Roma has similar troll guns but is much tankier and has much better concealment. NC and Amagi are as soft, or nearly as soft as the french but both have much better guns. In their current state the french have inconsistent guns and soft skin. 

1 hour ago, Lert said:

Fully agreed that EB is a weak gimmick, that's why I'm not even counting is as a gimmick.

It seems we agree at something :Smile_honoring:.

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1 hour ago, Xlap said:

Back to Gascogne, compared to the other T8 BBs that i have. Roma has great armor and concealment. Tirpitz/Bismarck tank as hell and great secundaries, NC and Amagi have great guns, Monarch has great concealment, reload and RN HE. What does Gascogne or Richelieu has? Why i would play Gascogne (or Richelieu) over any of the other T8 BBs?

This is kinda flawed. You are taking one feature from every ship (their best one) and then compare only that to the Gascogne/Richelieu.

Compare ships 1v1, and with everything. Not just one selected feature.

Let's do NC vs Richelieu, to show how it's properly done:

NC has more hitting power with it's guns, while Richelieu has a higher muzzle velocity which makes gunnery at medium-long ranges more comfortable
NC turns tighter, Richelieu is significantly faster
NC has better Concealment, Richelieu has better TDS
NC has better AA, Richelieu has better Secondaries

See? Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

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7 minutes ago, Xlap said:

The firepower is pretty much the same, troll dispersion but with better reload and better gun placement. But they are much tankier.

<snip>

The french BBs are as soft as Amagi

Gasc / Rich have much better penetration at range than Bismarck / Tirpitz, at the same dispersion and are fare tankier than you give them credit for. I find it very curious that you would call a ship like Roma with serious defensive weaknesses 'tanky', while discounting the tankiness of Rich / Gasc. Roma has an above water citadel and three layers of plating (32mm plating, 375mm belt and 40mm bulkhead) at the same angles. Richelieu has a 32mm outer plate, a 330mm belt, a 50mm turtleback, all at significantly different angles. Then there's a 50mm citadel bulkhead. This gives Richelieu a 15mm advantage in total thickness, while offering different angles and more ricochet checks than Roma's armor does. Richelieu has a thicker athwartship too, to keep bow lolpen shots out. And you call Roma 'tanky' ...

 

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22 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

This is kinda flawed. You are taking one feature from every ship (their best one) and then compare only that to the Gascogne/Richelieu.

Compare ships 1v1, and with everything. Not just one selected feature.

Thats my issue with the fench line, while most BBs have some feature the distingiush them the fench line has none. 

22 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

NC has more hitting power with it's guns, while Richelieu has a higher muzzle velocity which makes gunnery at medium-long ranges more comfortable

While Richelieu has better muzzle and pen values at ranges, you dont have the accuracy to fire from those ranges, the guns have poor dispresion. 

NC turns tighter, Richelieu is significantly faster

Speed in a straight line is not that valuable to a BB, few times you will stay at max speed for too long. 

NC has better Concealment, Richelieu has better TDS

Conceament is better than TDS. You will use concealment much more often. 

NC has better AA, Richelieu has better Secondaries.

 

While the secundaries are better they are not good enough to spec into them, also, they are mostly located in the rear, which takes a lot of their value. 

See? Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

True, both have strenghts and weakness, but NC strenghts are better than Richelieu strenghts. 

 

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