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Flamu: When he's right, he's right.

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Not a fan of flamu at all so can someone give me the cribs notes of whatever the hell he wants to see broken, now?

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I honestly feel like it doesn't even need to be ribbons. One thing WoT did very well was a display of "match contribution": namely, it would list the amount of damage you dealt, the amount of assistance damage attributed to you from spotting or tracking, the amount of damage blocked by armor or absorbed by tracks, and the amount of damage that occurred (for artillery) while the enemy was stunned. It would also track capture points if you had any.

One other thing WoT did well was rewarding you even if you didn't get to deal a single point of damage. Perhaps you fired at a tank and your shots bounced, but you tanked plenty of agro for the team. Perhaps you were a designated spotter and gave your team the vision it needed to win. Either way, you still got rewarded for it, and you didn't have to be required to deal any damage to "unlock" the rewards that you should have gotten just for contributing.

 

These are systems I think should be in WoWS, as the current system is entirely too-focussed on dealing damage to get rewards. Nothing rewards as much as damage, and, while the game doesn't tell you explicitly how much it rewards you for various actions, the rewards for high-contribution matches with low damage are much lower than those for a low-contribution match with high damage.

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Not a fan of flamu at all so can someone give me the cribs notes of whatever the hell he wants to see broken, now?

 

TLDW:

The focus on farming damage in XP/Achievements/Rewards should be shifted to contesting objects/winning games/helping your team.

Edited by TheStarSlayer
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7 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

Not a fan of flamu at all so can someone give me the cribs notes of whatever the hell he wants to see broken, now?

I'm not a fan, either, but he's saying that the game as it currently stands is entirely too-focussed on dealing damage, both in how much it rewards you and how it displays those rewards.

 

Where he and I differ on these is that he thinks the game should give achievements for getting certain milestones, while I think that every instance of damage "blocked" or assisted with spotting should be detailed like it is in WoT.

Edited by Carrier_Lexington
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Flamu is right and it is an issue in the game. The game revolves around Damage when that's not the only avenue to victory, or focus. I play DD because I want to have a hand in winning, not just big numbers on the screen that make me cream my recliner. Game doesn't give you much for that, something I've spoken about around here a few times.

Edited by Canadatron
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8 minutes ago, TheStarSlayer said:

 

 

TLDW:

The focus on farming damage in XP/Achievements/Rewards should be shifted to contesting objects/winning games/helping your team.

 

8 minutes ago, Carrier_Lexington said:

I'm not a fan, either, but he's saying that the game as it currently stands is entirely too-focussed on dealing damage, both in how much it rewards you and how it displays those rewards.

 

Where he and I differ on these is that he thinks the game should give achievements for getting certain milestones, while I think that every instance of damage "blocked" or assisted with spotting should be detailed like it is in WoT.

Oh so another, "I'll point out the obvious like I'm the first person to realize this," video out of him?

Yeah, duh, we need to make damage less of a focus. That's why durability needs to be raised, not lowered. What is the focus in CoD? Kills. Are people easy to kill? Yes. What is the focus in TF2? Area control. Are kills easy to get? Not nearly as other FPS's. Change durability and the rest will follow. Been saying that, at this point, for years. They want WoWs to be sudden death (q.e.d. no respawns), then you need to make death less likely and damage more mitagatable. Matches should end with both sides with about half the team still alive, not 1 or two alive on each.

Edited by _RC1138
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A post game screen that shows spotting damage, your damage done, your damage taken and your potential damage would be great maybe even separating dot vs alpha damage.

Edit.

I meant by team not just your "detailed" screen.

Edited by StoneRhino

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Just now, _RC1138 said:

Yeah, duh, we need to make damage less of a focus. That's why durability needs to be raised, not lowered. What is the focus in CoD? Kills. Are people easy to kill? Yes. What is the focus in TF2? Area control. Are kills easy to get? Not nearly as other FPS's. Change durability and the rest will follow. Been saying that, at this point, for years.

That's why I like games like Heliborne so much: they offer a completely different focus around map control. In fact, map control is how you win. Killing enemy helis jut makes it easier.

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Personally I thought he had some great ideas. Apologies for the duplicate post. I think we posted the same topic at about the same time

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One thing they could easily do is split spotting XP like they do in tanks -- the one spotting gets 50% of the damage-based XP of those shooting what he's spotting. 

I'd also like to be able to see the match stats of other players to see if maybe a BB was tanking like a boss, or a DD spotting like a champ. As of now, that's not available though no idea why.

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8 minutes ago, Carrier_Lexington said:

That's why I like games like Heliborne so much: they offer a completely different focus around map control. In fact, map control is how you win. Killing enemy helis jut makes it easier.

This is usually what I like to do when gaming. I've always liked "defensive" plays more. Play Pyro/Engy in TF2, and have been Engineer in BF series since '42. Love utility.

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20 minutes ago, Canadatron said:

Flamu is right and it is an issue in the game. The game revolves around Damage when that's not the only avenue to victory, or focus. I play DD because I want to have a hand in winning, not just big numbers on the screen that make me cream my recliner. Game doesn't give you much for that, something I've spoken about around here a few times.

 

The rewards focus to heavily on damage.  There objective is winning the game and dealing damage is a fairly small part of that.  

I've been saying for ages that if you give me a choice between someone who has double the average damage in a ship with a 50% win rate and someone who has just above average and a 60% I'll take the lower damage higher win rate guy every time. He's positioning better, shooting at DDs and cruisers instead of BBs, capping and defending objectives and generally doing all the little things it takes to win.

I have zero interest in either farming dead damage or rewarding people who do. Just win, that's the only thing that matters.

There have been steps to improving the reward system, increased spotting xp for DDs, and money gained for being shot at but there is still a lot of room for improvement.

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14 minutes ago, MajorEnglush said:

One thing they could easily do is split spotting XP like they do in tanks -- the one spotting gets 50% of the damage-based XP of those shooting what he's spotting. 

I'd also like to be able to see the match stats of other players to see if maybe a BB was tanking like a boss, or a DD spotting like a champ. As of now, that's not available though no idea why.

This happens, it's just not pronounced enough.

 

BBs get more rewards for being shot at and DDs get more rewards for spotting.

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22 minutes ago, StoneRhino said:

A post game screen that shows spotting damage, your damage done, your damage taken and your potential damage would be great maybe even separating dot vs alpha damage.

Edit.

I meant by team not just your "detailed" screen.

 

Let my DDs flex their spotting and capping e-peens! :Smile_trollface:

I agree.

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I think you guys dislike Flamu because he's 3x better then you at this game, and his opinion is worth 10x more.

 

 

And he makes more money then you playing a video game.

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15 minutes ago, TheStarSlayer said:

 

 

TLDW:

The focus on farming damage in XP/Achievements/Rewards should be shifted to contesting objects/winning games/helping your team.

Yep which is completely accurate. As a shimakaze my hit rate is abysmal yet I'm the one that usually is spotting the entire enemy BB line in the rear for the entire map..and I get squat remuneration for my spotting, for all the damage my team did to the red side because I'm spotting... and for keeping those red BB's turning hard to avoid torps which in turn resulted in their getting citadel'd by our BBs that got a nice view of that red BB's broadside. The only way I can get xp and cash to cover the repair/rearm expenses per battle is to inflict damage directly. Hell, I've been in battles where I alone took all three caps and re-took two of them during the battle (total 5 solo caps) and kept the bulk of the red team spotted while at it... but my torps missed all the time and I barely got 2 hits... end of battle the xp and credit reward was in the toilet. 

As a Yamato I can put over 150k damage on the red team and I get rewarded handsomely.. despite the fact that overall all that damage did very little to help the team as it was spread in little chunks of ~15k damage to almost every non-DD ship in the red team. I do not cap or cap or even tank damage...yet my xp is over 1000 (no premium nor flags nor daily bonus) and my credit rewards covers my repair/rearm/tierII repairs... and gives me profits. Even more absurd, there's been battles where RNG just hated me and I had done squat damage..yet got 4 kills by plinking the last ~2k hp off each red ship... my rewards were high because of said kills. This makes no sense. 

The reward system is poorly designed...and essentially rewards quick lemming-rushing, in-your-face damage fests .

It should be re-designed so each ship class has two primary reward-giving tasks, one secondary and the rest are shared universally by all ship classes. The below is a general guideline example... each nation per ship class should have some variance to this due to the capability of the ships being different per nation...for example USN cruisers would have secondary task be number of planes shot down since USN is AA spec.. IJN would use number of torpedo hits. Brits/German/Soviet would use the bonuses listed below. You get the idea. 

BBs: Primary: Number of Citadel hits , % of ship health it damaged (per ship). Secondary: Amount of damage taken. 

CA: Primary: % of ship health it damaged, number of ships it damaged. Secondary: Large bonus to defend/assist/cap rewards.

CL: Primary: Large bonus to damage inflicted on other ships, medium bonus to spotting rewards. Secondary: Bonus to torpedo damage rewards. 

DD: Primary: Huge bonus to Spotting rewards , large bonus to cap/assist/defend rewards. Secondary: Bonus based on number of torpedo hits. 

 

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Just now, HorrorRoach said:

I think you guys dislike Flamu because he's 3x better then you at this game, and his opinion is worth 10x more.

I think that your horribly off the mark. Theres plently people who are good at this game, just look at all the purples on the forum who don't receive the hail flamu does.

Flamu gets it for his style of videos, and anyone with a youtube channel is going to attract "haters" as much as the next.

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4 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

BBs: Primary: Number of Citadel hits , % of ship health it damaged (per ship). Secondary: Amount of damage taken. 

CA: Primary: % of ship health it damaged, number of ships it damaged. Secondary: Large bonus to defend/assist/cap rewards.

CL: Primary: Large bonus to damage inflicted on other ships, medium bonus to spotting rewards. Secondary: Bonus to torpedo damage rewards. 

DD: Primary: Huge bonus to Spotting rewards , large bonus to cap/assist/defend rewards. Secondary: Bonus based on number of torpedo hits. 

 

In an ideal world....
We can only hope something like (or at least similar) that gets implemented.

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I created a topic recently asking for "Offense" ribbons. That way a BB can contest a cap and get an equivalent amount of points, even if he gets shot and the timer keeps resetting.  For every 100 rounds tanked, you get cap points equal to half an assisted cap. 200 tanked, you get an assisted cap worth, 250 you get a solo cap worth of points.

It can be based on potential damage as well, not just actual hits taken

 

EJ

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5 minutes ago, HorrorRoach said:

I think you guys dislike Flamu because he's 3x better then you at this game, and his opinion is worth 10x more.

 

 

And he makes more money then you playing a video game.

Oh my gosh, you're getting MARRIED? When's the Wedding??! Am I invited?
 

:Smile_trollface:

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2 minutes ago, Carrier_Lexington said:

Oh my gosh, you're getting MARRIED? When's the Wedding??! Am I invited?
 

:Smile_trollface:

Heh, that's exactly the  kind of response i was hoping to generate. you have to strike while the iron is hot...

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WG already solved this problem in World of Warplanes by the way that it shows achievements ingame and the types of activities that generate them.

 

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   Flamu fan here, don't always agree with him, but he is very close to the right of it here.

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And when he’s wrong, he’s so very wrong.

 

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