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TornadoADV

Need help with French BB Admiral skills

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I'm into the home stretch with getting Admiral Honore to his 19th skill point and I'm torn between Superintendant and Demolitions Expert. I know running India Delta will almost give me parity in the healing department, more so then if I ran India X-Ray and Victor Lima for fire chance for the secondaries. Anybody have any suggestions on what they would do?

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   For BB's or T9 and T10 cruisers, SI hands down. St Louis should have both SI and DE, Henri can do without DE since it amounts to less than a 10% enhancement to her base fire chance for 3 skill points. But for BB work, SI definitely.

Edited by Roadrider7021

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5 minutes ago, Roadrider7021 said:

   For BB's or T9 and T10 cruisers, SI hands down. St Louis should have both SI and DE, Henri can do without DE since it amounts to less than a 10% enhancement to her base fire chance for 3 skill points. But for BB work, SI definitely.

I'm a full secondary build, the RPM of my little guns are insane and I know that at the top tiers, secondaries are there to generate fires and strip AA. The additive effect of all those barrels getting a +2% fire chance means I'm much more likely to draw a fire on my target. I feel it's more teamplay oriented then just granting myself an extra heal. (I feel that the extra speed boost use is a wash to me.)

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  Kudos for thinking team and not raw damage performance. I think you'l generate dpm as well or better with your secondary build, but you might find that all over 32 mm armor won't give you the endurance in close in fights. Your 100mm guns are strictly fire threats, fire means dot, dot means time has to pass for your fires to kill, time that you will generally have to spend getting raked with 6" IFHE and 8" HE fire. You can 1 v 1 an enemy battleship this way pretty well, but if it's early to mid match and he has 1 or 2 cruisers behind him, one tends to get HE focused and removed too quickly.

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Since you're asking about French battleships and not cruisers, let me say that you should never under any circumstance take DE on a battleship.  The reason German battleships have such effective secondary builds is because they have large portions of their ship immune to 203mm HE penetrations.  With significant portions of the French BB's being 32mm plate or less, you are going to very very vulnerable to HE spam.  I'm not sure being within secondary range is what you want.  

Caveat: I've only played up to the Lyon and haven't touched the tier 8-10 French BB's yet.

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23 minutes ago, Pope_Shizzle said:

Since you're asking about French battleships and not cruisers, let me say that you should never under any circumstance take DE on a battleship.  The reason German battleships have such effective secondary builds is because they have large portions of their ship immune to 203mm HE penetrations.  With significant portions of the French BB's being 32mm plate or less, you are going to very very vulnerable to HE spam.  I'm not sure being within secondary range is what you want.  

Caveat: I've only played up to the Lyon and haven't touched the tier 8-10 French BB's yet.

Yeah, I'm obviously not going to dive in because of what you mentioned. But the high tier french BBs get incredible range and fire chance, not to mention rate of fire for their secondaries exceeding that of the German BBs get. The French secondaries of course don't get the built in 1/4th rule for dealing direct damage, hence my decision to perhaps use DE as my final skill to focus on Fire DoT and drawing out damcon and repair parties.

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1 minute ago, TornadoADV said:

Yeah, I'm obviously not going to dive in because of what you mentioned. But the high tier french BBs get incredible range and fire chance, not to mention rate of fire for their secondaries exceeding that of the German BBs get. The French secondaries of course don't get the built in 1/4th rule for dealing direct damage, hence my decision to perhaps use DE as my final skill to focus on Fire DoT and drawing out damcon and repair parties.

 

I hear you, but your secondaries already have the best fire chance of any BB at tier 9 or 10.  DE is completely useless for your main battery due to the already high fire chance and low rate of fire.  DE for secondaries that already have a 9% fire chance seems not terrible useful.  If you have 3 points left over, then taking BFT (which I assume you already have if you're talking about a secondary build) or superintendent/vigilence would be better.  Consider that DE increased fire chance by 2%.  Tier 10 ships have an inherent 50% fire reduction built into them.  DE, for 3 points, is giving you an additional 1 fire chance for every 100 HE shells that hit.  I just don't believe it will be even remotely effective and would hate for someone to waste 3 points on a useless skill.

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52 minutes ago, Pope_Shizzle said:

 

I hear you, but your secondaries already have the best fire chance of any BB at tier 9 or 10.  DE is completely useless for your main battery due to the already high fire chance and low rate of fire.  DE for secondaries that already have a 9% fire chance seems not terrible useful.  If you have 3 points left over, then taking BFT (which I assume you already have if you're talking about a secondary build) or superintendent/vigilence would be better.  Consider that DE increased fire chance by 2%.  Tier 10 ships have an inherent 50% fire reduction built into them.  DE, for 3 points, is giving you an additional 1 fire chance for every 100 HE shells that hit.  I just don't believe it will be even remotely effective and would hate for someone to waste 3 points on a useless skill.

Hi, since we are on the topic of secondaries on French BBs, I am building a captain for Alsace or Republique ([F]), he has 16 points right now, for PT-AR-EM-SI-CE-AFT, the idea being some secondary range though I didn't take SBM2 since I went ASM1. I don't do MSEC for MN BBs since their secondaries IMO are about fires at high tiers.

Well, here's the thing: how much secondary range do I really need from the base 7.5 or 8? Besides the obvious SBM2 + AFT, I could do AFT+ASM1 for AA range bump, and a range of 9.5 or 10.08 km for secondaries, and while ASM1 serves as a substitute flag for secondary range, I'm not sure how much ASM1 helps with the over/undershooting which IMO is the real problem with the dispersion and shell speeds, and that's no survivability skills if I take SI and only ~9 km secondary range without flags.

OR, I could switch AFT for FP since that would help with the HE spammers or even forget a second 4-pointer for BoS and high alert, and make up the range with SBM2, but that costs me AA range which could come in handy for when CVs appear.

 

I'm in no rush, I can wait until next clan wars to test out builds.

Edited by admiral_noone

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1 hour ago, Pope_Shizzle said:

 

I hear you, but your secondaries already have the best fire chance of any BB at tier 9 or 10.  DE is completely useless for your main battery due to the already high fire chance and low rate of fire.  DE for secondaries that already have a 9% fire chance seems not terrible useful.  If you have 3 points left over, then taking BFT (which I assume you already have if you're talking about a secondary build) or superintendent/vigilence would be better.  Consider that DE increased fire chance by 2%.  Tier 10 ships have an inherent 50% fire reduction built into them.  DE, for 3 points, is giving you an additional 1 fire chance for every 100 HE shells that hit.  I just don't believe it will be even remotely effective and would hate for someone to waste 3 points on a useless skill.

Yeah, that's my hesitation. I'm trying to balance out leaving extra fire chance on the table versus losing out on that extra heal that may enable me to hang on. (and for my secondaries to keep firing.)

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1 hour ago, admiral_noone said:

Hi, since we are on the topic of secondaries on French BBs, I am building a captain for Alsace or Republique ([F]), he has 16 points right now, for PT-AR-EM-SI-CE-AFT, the idea being some secondary range though I didn't take SBM2 since I went ASM1. I don't do MSEC for MN BBs since their secondaries IMO are about fires at high tiers.

Well, here's the thing: how much secondary range do I really need from the base 7.5 or 8? Besides the obvious SBM2 + AFT, I could do AFT+ASM1 for AA range bump, and a range of 9.5 or 10.08 km for secondaries, and while ASM1 serves as a substitute flag for secondary range, I'm not sure how much ASM1 helps with the over/undershooting which IMO is the real problem with the dispersion and shell speeds, and that's no survivability skills if I take SI and only ~9 km secondary range without flags.

OR, I could switch AFT for FP since that would help with the HE spammers or even forget a second 4-pointer for BoS and high alert, and make up the range with SBM2, but that costs me AA range which could come in handy for when CVs appear.

 

I'm in no rush, I can wait until next clan wars to test out builds.

Couple things.  On the question of range, I think it depends on what your goal is with secondaries.  That may sound odd, but secondaries are generally only effective at causing direct damage to cruisers and destroyers.  BB damage comes through fires.  And the only time you should ever build for secondaries is if you can afford 4 points to use manual control.  They just aren't accurate enough without it. At tier 9 and 10, with so many ships having radar and hydro, I think destroyers are generally more visible and less reliant on stealth.  I'd maximize secondary range.  There is something psychologically disconcerting about driving a ship inside the secondary range of a ship that peppers them out, even if they aren't hitting you.  

I run hybrid secondary specs on my German battleships.  This is my 19 point commander that I have on my GK and my Bismarck:  PM, DCCA, AR, SI, MFCSA, FP, AFT.  Next time I get e free commander respec, I'm going to switch SI out with BFT to increase AA and secondary ROF.  I rarely find myself using all 5 heals.  Sometimes, but not as often as I wish I had better ROF or AA.  If you're using premium heal consumables you can still get 4 heals a game which should be fine.

Combine that with the modules that increase secondary range and secondary/AA gun hit points and you're fine.  I think the hybrid secondary/survival build is going to be especially important on French BB's because they are less robust than the German ones.  So, to actually answer your question, I would get FP as my first 4 point skill, MFCSA as my second and hold off on AFT until you hit 18 points and can get it as your third.

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I put Admiral Honore in Lyon, where his benefit of turret train is more perceivable, given tier VIII and above all have relatively fast train, I can also put him in Gascogne to make the rear turret move maximum train angles faster which may be a consideration for République too, while at the same time employing a slightly alternative commander build for Richelieu/Alsace giving me 3 commanders to use in Gascogne with emphasis on different aspects.

 

so I would only consider Admiral Honore for Lyon or République and by extension Gascogne, as Richelieu/Alsace have a bulk of their firepower up-front which on average doesn't have to train to such a great degree.

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