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ArgosRising

Do Destroyers even care about being uptiered?

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So I decided a while ago that the KM dds seemed like the best fit for me. I am a DD who loves taking down other DDs and the Z52 seems like my ideal ship. Right now I am taking my time in the Ernst Gaede and getting to know her. Out of curiosity I was looking up the line to see the differences between one ship to another and I guess I am wondering: Do destroyers even care about getting uptiered? 

 

Statistically there aren't many differences between all the ships in the KM line between VI and X it seems like outside of continually upgrading torps and the guns swapping between 128mm and 150mm. Is the main reason you care because of concealment against other DDs? Does the health matter that much? I guess I just started to wonder if a Gaede would even care if it was in a completely tier VIII game or not. 

Edited by ArgosRising

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DDs are the least hardest hit by being bottom tier, but the asterisk attached is that you really have to know exactly what you’re doing, especially when fighting T8s that have access to the concealment module that you dont. 

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Overly simplified answer is no. DDs care about skill level more than tiering. DDs are affected differently than other ships so it's nowhere near the easy answer to other types of ships deal with when it comes to when it comes to facing tiering differences. 

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1) Radar

2) Huge volume of fire that gets thrown in your general direction if spotted.

3) Planes

   You'll be fine though, just don't get seen, don't make any mistakes, don't expect any real support or encouragement.

below is an uptiered DD doing okay, so you should be fine too..:cap_rambo:

UnawareSecondHorseshoebat-max-1mb.gif

Edited by Gerbertz

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Well it is disappointing if you are in a Kagero and you don't have T-10 BB's to taunt/scarify before you hunt them down and sink them, and at any tier , (+2 tier) targets do pay better.

Edited by Strachwitz666
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Depends.

I like my Ruskie gunboats.

Being uptiered can mean the secondaries on the BB I'm aiming at have a longer range than my guns.

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 It's a yes no answer most the time I don't have issues with it but I have a lot of experience so I kind of know how to deal with it better than a new player would but after T8 then it becomes a little more difficult with more radar Radar having longer ranges and duration and a lot of the guns are laser effective once you get to 9 + 10 by then everybody wants to delete you as soon as they cu

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Depends on the ship...I hate seeing tier 8 DDs when I'm running the Aigle. If its the only DD vs another tier 6 DD in a tier 8 battle, that's not so bad. 

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Tier 6 and 7 DDs care about being up tiered into tier 8+ MM, because those DDs can mount the concealment upgrade and get far stealthier.  Not to mention there is generally more radar at higher tiers.  

Edited by yashma

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Mostly they care about what DDs they're up against, and Tiering makes a difference there at times, but they care less about higher CAs or BBs.

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52 minutes ago, ArgosRising said:

So I decided a while ago that the KM dds seemed like the best fit for me. I am a DD who loves taking down other DDs and the Z52 seems like my ideal ship. Right now I am taking my time in the Ernst Gaede and getting to know her. Out of curiosity I was looking up the line to see the differences between one ship to another and I guess I am wondering: Do destroyers even care about getting uptiered? 

 

Statistically there aren't many differences between all the ships in the KM line between VI and X it seems like outside of continually upgrading torps and the guns swapping between 128mm and 150mm. Is the main reason you care because of concealment against other DDs? Does the health matter that much? I guess I just started to wonder if a Gaede would even care if it was in a completely tier VIII game or not. 

You care when the uptiered cruisers have Radar.

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If you like cap contesting and hunting other DDs, Lo Yang would be a great fit for you.

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It really depends on what destroyers are on the other team. In my Kamikaze it's not a big deal because my concealment is low and I can reload my torpedoes every 36ish seconds. If I run into another DD I can't fight, I spot them first and run away. In Z-23 though, if I run into a Fletcher or Gearing and my smoke is on cool down, I'm in a world of trouble.

 

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Depends on the ship. Personally I find Tier 8 BB's uptier very well. I never felt out of class when I had my NC or tirpitz against tier 10's. 

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9 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

If you like cap contesting and hunting other DDs, Lo Yang would be a great fit for you.

Right, because it doesn't have the DWTs does it? I played to the Gadjah Mada in the PA DD line and decided I didn't like not being able to torp DDs, but I always forget the Lo Yang does hit DDs, I might have to pick it up and try it some time just for fun. 

 

 

....

 

Update: After looking at it, it looks like it makes you choose between Engine Boost or Hydro, which would be a tough one for me, would really like to have both D:

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2 minutes ago, ArgosRising said:

Right, because it doesn't have the DWTs does it? I played to the Gadjah Mada in the PA DD line and decided I didn't like not being able to torp DDs, but I always forget the Lo Yang does hit DDs, I might have to pick it up and try it some time just for fun. 

Update: After looking at it, it looks like it makes you choose between Engine Boost or Hydro, which would be a tough one for me, would really like to have both D:

No, she does not carry deep water torps.  Her two torp options are 9.2km 55 knot version, or 6.7km 60+ knot version.  I personally run the 6.7's, as they are far more powerful and actually have the speed to hit ships.  With full concealment at 5.8km for Lo Yang, it still gives a slight window to be able to stealth torp from.

As for hydro versus speed boost, no question that hydro is 100% more valuable.  It makes Lo Yang one of the best cap contesting ships in the game.  She was a monster in T8 Ranked last season.

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I mean mass vs z-46 not a fare fight. Theres mutipul major differences per ship that make it stronger. Inly few dd's are bad at uptiered.

(listing ones have experiance in)

- nicholas, farragut, mutsuki, jainwei, ) theres hardly any that i can even name lol

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15 minutes ago, ArgosRising said:

Right, because it doesn't have the DWTs does it? I played to the Gadjah Mada in the PA DD line and decided I didn't like not being able to torp DDs, but I always forget the Lo Yang does hit DDs, I might have to pick it up and try it some time just for fun. 

 

 

....

 

Update: After looking at it, it looks like it makes you choose between Engine Boost or Hydro, which would be a tough one for me, would really like to have both D:

Nope. Its hydro, smoke, boost/defaa.

(never mind for some reason i thought you said z-52)

Edited by JessieTheKitty

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T7 as lowest Tier probably has it the worst, as almost every DD gets access to the Cocealment Module, several ships are likely to run Radar and you face monsters such as the Kidd, Fletcher, Black, Tashkent, and the PA DDs that can just mount Radar for themselves.

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13 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

T7 as lowest Tier probably has it the worst, as almost every DD gets access to the Cocealment Module, several ships are likely to run Radar and you face monsters such as the Kidd, Fletcher, Black, Tashkent, and the PA DDs that can just mount Radar for themselves.

I would agree.  Not all T7 DDs are bad, but as a whole it can be a shock for a newish player going from the relative "safety" (minimal radar, etc.) of T6 to T7 where you see T9s a lot.  

As for the OP, you just have to make the most of the hand that  MM deals.  I don't worry about it, but rather look at the lineups and go from there.

Btw, @ArgosRising, Z-52 is a monster, so don't get discouraged during your grind... it is totally worth the effort.

B

 

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As it has been told above, only facing upper tier DDs can be an uphill battle. Not only by ship stats  or modules but also by commander skills. As for the choice of KM DDs, their short smoke is not for the faint of heart, but I think once you get to know them be a nice jack of all trades.

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Agree with others....you care when radar is a factor.

Without radar, I find being up-tiered not so big a deal. As long as you know your role. Spot for others, cap when possible, shoot from smoke, help with smoke, use islands to your advantage. Don't go yolo'ing after CV's, unless the opportunity presents itself.

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The biggest issue tends to be tier 6-7 DD's vs Tier 8+ DD's. 

 

Tier 8 DD's tend to not care as much as being uptiered compared to 6-7 . 

Concealment plays a huge factor, and one of the biggest issues tier 6-7's have is generally speaking, there concealment values dont come close to Tier 8+. 

Is radar a big deal? Sure it is, however one of the biggest issues for a tier 6-7 DD vs a tier 8 DD is that a tier 6-7 DD can be completely negated by a tier 8 who is shadowing them due to their concealment being much higher .

Radar is radar, it has its duration and its cool down allowing you to potentially react and recover to it. 

However a 6.7 km concealment DD vs a Benson  or Kidd at 5.9 can be completely neutered by some smart play from the Tier 8 DD. 

Keep your guns off, shadow him and just keep him perma spotted while your team blows him out of the water. 

This is something that is not very fair IMO, and can lead to some pretty tilted situations. 

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attached is my 90 day solo  DD stats.  I play t5-t10  and I also know that my divisioned stat is higher.     I only really play DDs I like at mid tier, but have grinded through all of them.    I didn't like KM midtier, but lot of players do well in it.  I prefer stealthier or more agile bote.   if I can maintain 1 ship kill/match in a DD, I know I will do pretty well in it.  

 

T5:  kami  is just very strong because of its stealth and torp reload.   as long as you don't see radar, very tough to counter.

T6: shinonome  gets bad rep from lot of players, but it is probably best t6 DD around.   good guns,  good torps and best balanced DD in its tier with no real weakness.  it does need high point captain to get the most out of , but you can match up well with anyone it is likely to meet.

t7: shiratsuyu and sims          really did well with shiratsuyu and even with nerf, it performs well.  good conceal that can match up with anyone it likely to meet. great torp reload and usable guns , it is still very strong t7.    Sims on other hand plays totally different.  it is cap fighting and scouting specialist and can help win matches, but takes high personal skill.  not the easiest bote to excel in, but gives good result.  it is my most played bote.   Gadja is also strong, but didn't play it much.      big issue with t7 is lack of conceal means you will likely meet botes that are likely to spot you first.   start to see more radars as well. 

t8:   probably toughest tier for DD to excel in.   I only played Hsien Yang for the PADD grind. it is fairly strong, but have to play it very carefully to avoid getting spotted.  only 4 gun makes it poor gunbote.  i think harikaze is probably most versatile   t8 (don't own it)   due to great conceal and good gun.   being first to spot is very good thing to have if you have firepower to land a few shot with good positioning.  benson is playable, but slow torp is a downside.  probably still the best  tech tier t8 dd.

 

 

 

 

 

ddstat.png

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