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She is a ship captain.

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https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/common/8-March-Day/


So when will we have adult female captains for our ships (not including anime schoolgirls)? The current lineup is indefensibly reactionary, Wargaming obviously knows this. They need to make an effort and make up for the obvious. 

Current avatars are either white males (if European, American or Commonwealth), asian males for PA/IJN, or anime schoolgirls. Not only is the sexism blatant, it would be offensive if we were not blinded to the bad habits of video game companies by convention. But to add insult to injury, the racialist biais/world view of WG choices is also self evident. Where are the black faces among the WOWS captain avatars (for example)?

Samuel_Gravely.jpg

edit 

Must admit to being surprised by the confused hostility to this topic, if a little disappointed. But then I should have known better, and set my expectations lower, having  followed the WOWS NA forum for so long..

Spoiler

An unusually sensitive and considered reply to this thread, it says much that I am not so able in expressing.

 

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The last time we had this argument, it got ugly fast because of disagreements about whether the captain portraits are supposed to be historical or arbitrary. Let's see if we can keep it more civil this time around.

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Is this topic a joke?

Integration in the U.S. Navy was still an EXTREMELY hot topic in WWII (see the Black Sheep Squadron and Port Chicago Disaster/Mutiny), and most of the other nations represented (UK, France, Germany, Russia) weren't NEARLY as ethnically diverse then as they are today. Moreover, the first U.S. female captain didn't arrive on the scene until 2003, and Japan only just promoted their first female squadron leader yesterday.

So, I ask again: is this topic a freaking joke? 

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6 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

The last time we had this argument, it got ugly fast because of disagreements about whether the captain portraits are supposed to be historical or arbitrary. Let's see if we can keep it more civil this time around.

Indeed, I shoud have created some placeholder posts to make sure things got off to a good start. I think you have saved this thread for me. +1.

edit : but if this topic does arouse emotion, it clearly is a subject that needs further discussion.

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8 minutes ago, Battlecruiser_Kongo said:

Is this topic a joke?

Integration in the U.S. Navy was still an EXTREMELY hot topic in WWII (see the Black Sheep Squadron and Port Chicago Disaster/Mutiny), and most of the other nations represented (UK, France, Germany, Russia) weren't NEARLY as ethnically diverse then as they are today. Moreover, the first U.S. female captain didn't arrive on the scene until 2003, and Japan only just promoted their first female squadron leader yesterday.

So, I ask again: is this topic a freaking joke? 

Not at all. Is your rant a joke? As I have pointed out, asian and white anime schoolgirl captains are in game, but not anime schoolboy captains. Even on these narrow grounds of fantasy, the game is clearly ahistorical, racialist (as in holds to a view that defines and catagorizes humans according to superficial  physical attributes) and sexist.

Surely we should welcome greater diversity and reprsentativity of humanity among our Captains? I suspect even within WG itself, there are divergent views on this matter, and surprisingly, the least open minded and most conservative might be found in the NA office.

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1 minute ago, nuttybiscuit said:

Not at all. Is your rant a joke? As I have pointed out, asian and white anime schoolgirl captains are in game, but not anime schoolboy captains. Even on these narrow grounds of fantasy, the game is clearly ahistorical, racialist (as in holds to a view that defines and catagorizes humans according to superficial  physical attributes) and sexist.

Surely we should welcome greater diversity and respetnativity if humanity among our Captains? I suspect even within WG itself, there are divergent views on this matter, and surprisingly, the least open minded and most conservative might be found in the NA office.

Name one major school boy captain in high school fleet. Go ahead im waiting

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Just now, nuttybiscuit said:

Not at all. Is your rant a joke? As I have pointed out, asian and white anime schoolgirl captains are in game, but not anime schoolboy captains. Even on these narrow grounds of fantasy, the game is clearly ahistorical, racialist (as in holds to a view that defines and catagorizes humans according to superficial  physical attributes) and sexist.

Surely we should welcome greater diversity and respetnativity if humanity among our Captains? I suspect even within WG itself, there are divergent views on this matter, and surprisingly, the least open minded and most conservative might be found in the NA office.

My rant. You mean history? 

truth.gif

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1 minute ago, JessieTheKitty said:

Name one major school boy captain in high school fleet. Go ahead im waiting

Am I producing that anime? Did I write it? I didn't realize I did. I'll be waiting on that royalties check you're going to be sending me.

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I ask respectfully, is it really a grave matter?  If I get home later and all of my captains have been changed to black men, black women, and whatever-skinned men/women, I'm completely okay with it. I'm not assigning any value to what they look like right now. My concern is how many points does a captain have and will I ever earn a 19 pointer. 

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2 minutes ago, Battlecruiser_Kongo said:

My rant. You mean history? 

(snip)

As the OP clearly points out, there have been female and black captains in history, while cartoon anime asian schoolgirls never did actually captain ships in real life, sorry to disappoint.

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Also i would like to say as a trasn-woman this isnt sexist but rather being from a historically accruate point of view.

back in 1900-1960 (the games era) sexism and colour discrimination was everywhere. There was at most probably 5 maxium female captains in ww2. Non of which where in military warships but rather cargo and merchant vessels. This is due to the fact that back in that time era females where greatly represented as being inferior to males. And well coloured people didnt have it too well either. Considering they where given less opportunitys to be promoted to captain. Granted theyres a few of them but most of them gardly did anything outstanding.

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6 minutes ago, BullpupWOT said:

I ask respectfully, is it really a grave matter?  If I get home later and all of my captains have been changed to black men, black women, and whatever-skinned men/women, I'm completely okay with it. I'm not assigning any value to what they look like right now. My concern is how many points does a captain have and will I ever earn a 19 pointer. 

This basically. All that really matters are the points of my captains and how close they are to getting to 19. They can be whichever race, colour, gender, religion they want. They can sexually identify as attack helicopters too (seems fitting) and I wouldnt mind at all. Taking into account however how WG hands out female crews in WoT as rewards I think, im sure something similar will happen soon enough.

Edited by warheart1992

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5 minutes ago, Battlecruiser_Kongo said:

Am I producing that anime? Did I write it? I didn't realize I did. I'll be waiting on that royalties check you're going to be sending me.

What? Did you even read what i was referring to?

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1 minute ago, JessieTheKitty said:

Also i would like to say as a trasn-woman this isnt sexist but rather being from a historically accruate point of view.

back in 1900-1960 (the games era) sexism and colour discrimination was everywhere. There was at most probably 5 maxium female captains in ww2. Non of which where in military warships but rather cargo and merchant vessels. This is due to the fact that back in that time era females where greatly represented as being inferior to males. And well coloured people didnt have it too well either. Considering they where given less opportunitys to be promoted to captain. Granted theyres a few of them but most of them gardly did anything outstanding.

The only historically accurate elements to this game are the ship models, everything else currently in the game is fantasy, a choice made by the game designers.

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Just now, JessieTheKitty said:

Also i would like to say as a trasn-woman this isnt sexist but rather being from a historically accruate point of view.

back in 1900-1960 (the games era) sexism and colour discrimination was everywhere. There was at most probably 5 maxium female captains in ww2. Non of which where in military warships but rather cargo and merchant vessels. This is due to the fact that back in that time era females where greatly represented as being inferior to males. And well coloured people didnt have it too well either. Considering they where given less opportunitys to be promoted to captain. Granted theyres a few of them but most of them gardly did anything outstanding.

And people want to talk racism. Sheesh.

This thread started off the rails, and the train has now sprouted wings and become a rocket ship. Could a mod kindly lock this before people ruin themselves?

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I am all for adding female captains as well as more racial diversity....but did you really have to play the "sexism/racism" card?

Edited by yashma
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If other players want to have female captains in their ports, which you can't see and don't impact you in any way I don't really see the problem. I don't want to use ARP/HSF stuff, but if others do then that's fine by me.

I'm sure mods already exist for it.

 

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Just now, Battlecruiser_Kongo said:

And people want to talk racism. Sheesh.

This thread started off the rails, and the train has now sprouted wings and become a rocket ship. Could a mod kindly lock this before people ruin themselves?

No im not being racist, its what happened in history. Idgaf about colour, gender or background. Im merely stating what happened in history

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5 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

This basically. All that really matters are the points of my captains and how close they are to getting to 19. They can be whichever race, colour, gender, religion they want. They can sexually identify as attack helicopters to (seems fitting) and I wouldnt mind at all. Taking into account however how WG hands out female crews in WoT as rewards I think, im sure something similar will happen soon enough.

Well in that case the avatars should be blank, so that players  could upload the avatars of their choice. But that isn't the case, we have instead a very narrow view of what consitutes humanity, that reinforces the understanding of players, young and old. But Wargaming does make these choices, it is expressing a world view, a very conservative, exclusive and fundamentally unhealthy one

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1 minute ago, yashma said:

I am all for adding female captains as well as people of color....but did you really have to play the "sexism/racism" card?

The game is both, wiitingly or unwittingly. As I have pointed out this is not uncommon among video games today. It is a subject worthy of discussion, I am not playing, merely stating the facts.

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4 minutes ago, nuttybiscuit said:

The only historically accurate elements to this game are the ship models, everything else currently in the game is fantasy, a choice made by the game designers.

Even many of the ship models are inaccurate.

 

As I said though: This is a problem easily solved by currently existing mods like Mermaid's Wrath or Kancolle Ship Commanders.

 

Also despite what people insist, the ARP Kongo sisters are adults. The Myokos and Takao are teens, though.

Edited by KiyoSenkan

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Just now, JessieTheKitty said:

No im not being racist, its what happened in history. Idgaf about colour, gender or background. Im merely stating what happened in history

Those two words that I bolded in that statement, when paired together, are regarded as enormously racist. We do not refer to people of differing ethnic and social backgrounds as ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀.

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Most people never think of race until some daft brings it up. It continues to exist because people continually do this sort of thing. And here we are again with another. And I should point out that it is also racist to suggest someone or something should be of another race. Please world stop doing this, you only continue to make it worse.

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Look I just want to get more unique captains in the game. If they've got a cool backstory and good abilities then I don't care what they look like.

Edited by pewpewpew42

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