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Snargfargle

Iowa vs. Yamato

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I enjoy Binkov's "what if" historical scenarios. Here is one that pertains to WOWS:

 

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That was actually quite interesting. Is that his normal standard of quality? I'll have to check his other work out.

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2 hours ago, Lert said:

That was actually quite interesting. Is that his normal standard of quality? I'll have to check his other work out.

 

I thought it was pretty fair balance between the two ships and the different scenarios.

 

At the end, he did say that WoWs had 7 million players worldwide in the commercial at the end. I would think that most are in Russia and most are players who signed up, but didn't keep playing.

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2 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

At the end, he did say that WoWs had 7 million players worldwide in the commercial at the end. I would think that most are in Russia and most are players who signed up, but didn't keep playing.

It was obviously just a sales pitch in regards to WoWS, best to just disregard it.

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Just now, Lert said:

It was obviously just a sales pitch in regards to WoWS, best to just disregard it.

Well of course, but I bet they took how many people have tried the game and that is 7 million. Will some come back, maybe a tiny amount, but the vast majority will not I think.

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2 hours ago, Lert said:

That was actually quite interesting. Is that his normal standard of quality? I'll have to check his other work out.

Yes he is a very good commentator and he goes into great depth with his "what if" scenarios.

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He kind of glossed over the issue of a single hit to a rudder or boiler or magazine potentially ending the fight dramatically for either combatant. Binkov is *okay,* but after watching the majority of his vids over the years, I've come to see him as going out of his way to make unequal forces look as if they had near parity for the sake of video elongation.

Edited by Battlecruiser_Kongo

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So many 'What If' scenarios that would never happen. 

In WW2, every US Battleship captain wanted to take on the Yamato.  Thank goodness political reasoning kept our thousands of sailors safe from reckless slaughter.

The video does not speak of the human losses involved in war.  Fact is that, even in a draw, nobody will come out of that slug-fest uninjured.

How many survivors of the Hood?  Bismarck?  Kirishima?  Yamashiro?  ...  You begin to see the crew of the Arizona had better chances of survival.

....

Personally, I like the scenario of 'What if Nagumo sailed his carriers into Pearl Harbor and surrendered on Dec 7th?'.. 

It ends with Japan winning the war....   think politics.

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10 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

Personally, I like the scenario of 'What if Nagumo sailed his carriers into Pearl Harbor and surrendered on Dec 7th?'.. 

It ends with Japan winning the war....   think politics.

 

So, you are saying that Japan surrenders on Dec 7th and keeps the status quo that they had at the time?

 

I don't think that would work. The US embargoed Japan for the war in China. Japan needed raw materials and they were for the taking in the South Pacific. So I don't think that would have worked as Japan needed those raw materials and the US wasn't selling anymore over the war in China.

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8 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

 

So, you are saying that Japan surrenders on Dec 7th and keeps the status quo that they had at the time?

 

I don't think that would work. The US embargoed Japan for the war in China. Japan needed raw materials and they were for the taking in the South Pacific. So I don't think that would have worked as Japan needed those raw materials and the US wasn't selling anymore over the war in China.

At the time the Japanese were looking for a short war....which they lose honorably...surrender, then reset their diplomatic policies and start repairing their relationships with other nations. 

How realist was that? I dont know. It would all come down to what the Japanese were prepared to give up in China

 

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13 minutes ago, MG1962 said:

At the time the Japanese were looking for a short war....which they lose honorably...surrender, then reset their diplomatic policies and start repairing their relationships with other nations. 

How realist was that? I dont know. It would all come down to what the Japanese were prepared to give up in China

 

 

As I understood it, the plan was to wipe out the Pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor and then negotiate a peace from a position of strength. I think the Japanese military did not expect the US to rebuild so fast. But Yamamoto knew which is why he made his 18 months running free comment. 

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I used to enjoy his channel before he started sponsoring horrible mobile games. That is a turn off to me.

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2 hours ago, AVR_Project said:

So many 'What If' scenarios that would never happen. 

In WW2, every US Battleship captain wanted to take on the Yamato.  Thank goodness political reasoning kept our thousands of sailors safe from reckless slaughter.

The video does not speak of the human losses involved in war.  Fact is that, even in a draw, nobody will come out of that slug-fest uninjured.

How many survivors of the Hood?  Bismarck?  Kirishima?  Yamashiro?  ...  You begin to see the crew of the Arizona had better chances of survival.

....

Personally, I like the scenario of 'What if Nagumo sailed his carriers into Pearl Harbor and surrendered on Dec 7th?'.. 

It ends with Japan winning the war....   think politics.

Maybe you should stick to candy crush. Games that involve shooting and violence maybe give you a mental breakdown.

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16 minutes ago, Verios44 said:

I used to enjoy his channel before he started sponsoring horrible mobile games. That is a turn off to me.

If he doesn’t get sponsors then he’ll be forced to stop creating content. YouTube demonotized a lot of content forcing many creators to pick up sponsors.

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2 minutes ago, SavageTactical said:

If he doesn’t get sponsors then he’ll be forced to stop creating content. YouTube demonotized a lot of content forcing many creators to pick up sponsors.

True, but at least find sponsors that are not cash grab mobile publishers that make WG and EA look like kittens!

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3 minutes ago, SavageTactical said:

Maybe you should stick to candy crush. Games that involve shooting and violence maybe give you a mental breakdown.

Japan wins the war because in doing that, Nagumo would bring down his own government.

To me, Japan is defined by the whole country, not a few tin-hatted despots with dreams of regional domination.

The US, is so confused and puzzled by this bizarre action that they suddenly conclude that those in Tokyo are not in control of their sanity.

You need to understand that nobody with an actual brain in Japan wanted to attack the US..  It was rationalized by this 'quick war' theory which was posted, but never debated.

If Roosevelt ordered the US Navy to attack the Royal Navy in 1931, what would have happened if the US navy sailed into London and surrendered?

FDR would be out of office in such a scandal..  What??  We were going to attack England??  Are you Stupid??

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5 minutes ago, Verios44 said:

True, but at least find sponsors that are not cash grab mobile publishers that make WG and EA look like kittens!

I bet you never have had to get sponsors before. Not everybody can get signed by Red Bull or Nike. 

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Interesting discussion going on here.

I think a key element the "surrender = victory" crowd is missing is that Japan was under an army dictatorship - yes, specifically an army dictatorship.  The IJN had virtually no power in the government, exemplified by the fact they highly opposed going to war in the first place.  If the Navy has that little power, how successful do you imagine a popular uprising would have been?

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2 hours ago, Kizarvexis said:

 

So, you are saying that Japan surrenders on Dec 7th and keeps the status quo that they had at the time?

 

I don't think that would work. The US embargoed Japan for the war in China. Japan needed raw materials and they were for the taking in the South Pacific. So I don't think that would have worked as Japan needed those raw materials and the US wasn't selling anymore over the war in China.

Japan needed raw materials because of the behavior of it's government.

Like we would see today in North Korea, if their military suddenly said, '$crew this' and surrendered to South Korea....

The reaction would be....   Huh???  Wha???  Little scramble-head runs off to Iran (or whatever country will take him) and hugs all around.

North Korea WINS.

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18 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

Japan needed raw materials because of the behavior of it's government.

Like we would see today in North Korea, if their military suddenly said, '$crew this' and surrendered to South Korea....

The reaction would be....   Huh???  Wha???  Little scramble-head runs off to Iran (or whatever country will take him) and hugs all around.

North Korea WINS.

True, the people of North Korea would win, yes. Makes sense.

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It’s always funny to watch how riled up people get about these videos.

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4 hours ago, Kizarvexis said:

 

As I understood it, the plan was to wipe out the Pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor and then negotiate a peace from a position of strength. I think the Japanese military did not expect the US to rebuild so fast. But Yamamoto knew which is why he made his 18 months running free comment. 

Yamamato's observations are well recorded, however in the higher levels of government the outlook was far more gloomy. Here is an extraordinary book written with the aid of surviving Japanese memos etc that paint an interesting picture of Japans situation in the years leading up the Pearl Harbor attack.

https://www.amazon.com/Japan-1941-Countdown-Eri-Hotta/dp/0307739740

Well worth the read for anyone interested in deep diving the Japanese motivations leading up to the war.

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15 minutes ago, MG1962 said:

Yamamato's observations are well recorded, however in the higher levels of government the outlook was far more gloomy. Here is an extraordinary book written with the aid of surviving Japanese memos etc that paint an interesting picture of Japans situation in the years leading up the Pearl Harbor attack.

https://www.amazon.com/Japan-1941-Countdown-Eri-Hotta/dp/0307739740

Well worth the read for anyone interested in deep diving the Japanese motivations leading up to the war.

 

Our county library system has it, so I ordered it sent to my local library. Thank you as I will check it out. 

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