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LittleWhiteMouse

Premium Ship Preview: Asashio 0.7.2

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4 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but Asashio feels to me like another shot at reducing battleship populations.  This may (or may not) be Wargaming's intent -- one of the thousands of cuts necessary to encourage players to diversify away from BBs.

If they really want to tone down battleship populations, they need to apply some across-the-board nerf bats rather than gimmicks.

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6 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

If they really want to tone down battleship populations, they need to apply some across-the-board nerf bats rather than gimmicks.

Which will result in a lot of quitting. 

Look, we may not like it, but the fact of the matter is that battleships sell. What Wargaming SHOULD have done was not go all-out arcade dopey and attempt to balance ships on a 1-for-1 basis - that was never going to produce 100% satisfactory results, and it never will. The game would have been so much better if it had attempted to fractionally mirror real life a bit better, where destroyers and cruisers had their utility, but they weren't the same as battleships, and weren't utilized in that fashion.

Instead, what we got is this mess, where battleship nerfs make a population of players who already (rightly) feel like they are playing enfeebled incarnations of the real thing angry, and other classes cannot comprehend why a platform exists in the game that can delete them in a few shots. Nobody is completely happy, and nobody will ever be completely happy - but driving BBs away from the game won't do anything but decrease revenue. 

Edited by Battlecruiser_Kongo
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Depends on the nature of the nerfs.

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33 minutes ago, SansPeur said:

Shhh.  Shut your mouth.

People will know what I am doing when I am in the Harekaze with my 19pt Akizuki captain.  

It's so funny when the dead reds pop up chat and go, What just happened.

Yeah lol had that kind fun with the Harekaze as a Corgi when my team was sure I was going to die, then the 3-4 enemy ships end up dead and enemy wonders what just happened!? And my team was like oh uh never mind our Corgi just took care of it. 

That was first and sadly possibly last days I was able to run Harekaze.

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23 minutes ago, Battlecruiser_Kongo said:

Which will result in a lot of quitting. 

Changing the BB spotting time after firing to 45+ seconds or more would completely change the meta for the better but the 'average' or 'majority' of BB mains wouldn't even notice. 

If this ship comes out, it will make an already broken and unfun meta even worse. At some point concern for the overall health and growth of the game needs to kick in. 

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6 minutes ago, harikari25 said:

Changing the BB spotting time after firing to 45+ seconds or more would completely change the meta for the better but the 'average' or 'majority' of BB mains wouldn't even notice. 

If this ship comes out, it will make an already broken and unfun meta even worse. At some point concern for the overall health and growth of the game needs to kick in. 

That would completely cripple ships like Roma. 

I'm not convinced that nerfs of that sort are going to change anything. Wargaming may ultimately just accept the fact that the product will always be flawed. 

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@LittleWhiteMouse loving the little mini-me inserts! If they don't change her any further...I might snatch her up when they release her.

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Given how much I hate being stealth-torped by destroyers, I may have to vacate tier VI-X for awhile. That is, if she stays in her current configuration. Only really seen one of them in battle, and it was across the map, so I can't really say for certain. But, given what has been revealed about it, I'm bound to hate the thing. And if LWM says it's OP, I trust her. More experience and insight than me.

A question, however. I am under the guise that Deep Water torpedoes affect everything except destroyers. Is that not the case with this ship? Because I only see references to the torps only affecting BB and CV, not CL/CA. If they don't affect CL/CA, I might be ok, though I'd probably have to put my higher-tier Battleships on the back burner for a bit and grind out the NOLA.

Either way, not thrilled about this ship.

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4 hours ago, Th3KrimzonD3mon said:

Can't effectively fight her primary predators.

That isn't even remotely overpowered.

 

I already have a Prem T8 DD that can effectively fight anything. Passing on this one, and will enjoy shredding them in matches.

Do note that mouse' classification for overpowered means it can forcibly redefine the meta, that's this ship in a nutshell, not surprised you aren't capable of realizing this due to your post history however. 

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8 minutes ago, Halonut24 said:

Given how much I hate being stealth-torped by destroyers, I may have to vacate tier VI-X for awhile. That is, if she stays in her current configuration. Only really seen one of them in battle, and it was across the map, so I can't really say for certain. But, given what has been revealed about it, I'm bound to hate the thing. And if LWM says it's OP, I trust her. More experience and insight than me.

A question, however. I am under the guise that Deep Water torpedoes affect everything except destroyers. Is that not the case with this ship? Because I only see references to the torps only affecting BB and CV, not CL/CA. If they don't affect CL/CA, I might be ok, though I'd probably have to put my higher-tier Battleships on the back burner for a bit and grind out the NOLA.

Either way, not thrilled about this ship.

That's why she's OP. 20km. 5 seconds worth of reaction time upon detecting torps. Only hit battleships and carriers.

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Outstanding review LWM as always.   I think if it gets released as is, I would probably buy it.  If for no other reason......this is different and could be a ton of fun to play.  It does seem like the skill level will be high to make this work properly. Certainly not a ship for the DD suicide experts that roam the tiers.

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14 minutes ago, TheNargacuga said:

Do note that mouse' classification for overpowered means it can forcibly redefine the meta, that's this ship in a nutshell, not surprised you aren't capable of realizing this due to your post history however. 

By all means, feel free to just toss insult for no reason. Welcome to my ignore list.

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Yeah, it wrecks BBs, but without guns and torps, it wont be much good at cap contesting. Passing on this.

WG loves the BB heavy meta. I pay no attention to what they say, but only to what they do. They hand out radar like candy and give it ridiculous range and duration. High tier CVs suck for DDs. Giving BBs sonar was also silly. Then there is BB AP and of course, detonations. Lost two games this week to early DD dets. WG wont balance DD numbers, meaning one team often starts down a DD.

Naturally, with the degraded DD gameplay at the high tiers everyone plays BBs. When I see WG address these fundamentals, then I will believe they want to change the meta. Right now that is nonsense.

Asashio is a gimmick DD designed with WGs support for a BB heavy meta in mind. If WG thought the meta was going to evolve, theyd release it with a better suite of anti cruiser and anti DD abilities...

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Allow me to clarify something: Most of the base pays no attention to news or the forums, I find it very highly unlikely that a ship that can't effectively fight other destroyers or cruisers will change the basic meta. A lot of players, who pay no attention, will buy it, and then stop playing it when they realize they can only so certain things at certain times, or they'll yolo ahead and get obliterated by said predators they can't effectively fight.

 

It will end up performing just like other IJN DD's, because while a unicum can make any ship sing, the majority of the base can't. Its WR and damage will be well below the average, that's not remotely OP, that's very bad. That should surprise no-one, WG has been dropping bad ships for a good long while now, and still trying to sell them for vast sums, and on top of that, the packages in the bundles have dropped in value, as well.

 

Mouse is a really good player, and tester, she has the skill to overcome the issues with the ship, the vast majority of the base doesn't. The meta won't change due to the addition of this ship.

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Just now, Taichunger said:

Yeah, it wrecks BBs, but without guns and torps, it wont be much good at cap contesting. Passing on this.

WG loves the BB heavy meta. I pay no attention to what they say, but only to what they do. They hand out radar like candy and give it ridiculous range and duration. High tier CVs suck for DDs. Giving BBs sonar was also silly. Then there is BB AP and of course, detonations. Lost two games this week to early DD dets. WG wont balance DD numbers, meaning one team often starts down a DD.

Naturally, with the degraded DD gameplay at the high tiers everyone plays BBs. When I see WG address these fundamentals, then I will believe they want to change the meta. Right now that is nonsense.

Asashio is a gimmick DD designed with WGs support for a BB heavy meta in mind. If WG thought the meta was going to evolve, theyd release it with a better suite of anti cruiser and anti DD abilities...

Exactly this, also.

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3 hours ago, Tzarevitch said:

I don't think the concept will work at all, even if you widen the gaps between the torpedoes. The problem to me is that, like Mouse said, in the beginning people will realize you can farm damage by spamming torpedoes into the start point before the BBs move. After a while, when people get wise to that one, the ship becomes nearly useless. Great players will try to move up for better shots, but most players won't. The ship has little playability for the average player beyond spamming torps into the start zone.The ship, as-is, is complete meat for every DD and CA/CL out there. It simply can't move forward. It has all the problems of the Pan Asians but with an even smaller target selection which then reduces the ship's ability to defend itself even more than regular IJN DDs, and like most IJN DDs, its guns can't save it from another DD much less a CA. Also, we already have a problem with passive play from BBs at high tiers, this just adds a DD which both encourages BBs to hide in the back and simultaneously teaches bad team-DD playstyle.  Aasashio isn't going to cap or spot for its team. They don't even have to pretend to have a clue about getting into position and setting up a good torpedo run either. They just lob torpedoes from behind the safety of their team with no fear of hitting allies, and heaven help us all when they try to play another DD. I really think they just need to scrap this concept and start again. Asashio deserves better than this. 

I agree with Mouse, the ship is clearly a test run at limiting the BB overpopulation problem, but it won't work. They need to take concrete steps to address the BB problem, but introducing a gimmick ship isn't the way to do it. It won't have the effect they think it will and then the player base will be left with another OP ship that the Devs will have to discontinue. 

Hi. Thanks for actually replying to the idea (kinda surprised that it got so much hate, but whatever). 

It seems to me, despite the WIP tags, something along the lines of the current Asashio will be coming (given the small difference between the last two iterations). 

Given that, is it unreasonable to suggest bigger gaps between torps so that: 

1) fewer long-range torps hit, reducing rewards for ‘sniping’;

2) it is easier to dodge torps, rewarding aware battleship drivers more;

3) it promotes Asashio drivers to get closer to their targets to deliver hits. 

The only reasons why you wouldn’t support such a change is that you either are secretly looking forward to nailing battleships that are trying to push objectives with ninja torps that can’t be dodged; or you think the entire ship in current form is game breaking and shouldn’t proceed. I understand that; this ship sounds both fun and game breaking. But why not use torp spread as a balancing mechanic to make it less game breaking whilst still punishing camping bb? It even makes some degree of sense - as shorter cruisers and DDs aren’t targets, the gap between the torps can be wonder but still effective. 

Itger options would be to remove the TRB so you can’t stack floods as easy (see Flamu’s video on that) and/or reducing flood chance so 1 hit from each spread doesn’t always cause flooding. 

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1 hour ago, crzyhawk said:

If they really want to tone down battleship populations, they need to apply some across-the-board nerf bats rather than gimmicks.

Oh wait, I suggested a survivability nerf to BBs (premiums included) of reducing DC and repairs/effectiveness and you'd thought I said we should shave kittens with cheese graters.

Wow did the BB trolls come out. Don't touch our precious BBs- we are supposed to be invincible.

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Nice write up as always mouse! You truly are a community gem!

I might pick this up for the occasional LOL's. But I see my win rate going down running it for prolonged periods. Like I mentioned in a earlier thread, this ship is broken in sooooo many ways. And its forced play style will be very selfish. I recently picked up the Harekaze for this very reason. But I am considering throwing some more cash at a broken boat, just for the occasional kicks. Depending on price of course.

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The solution here is obvious. Give it the Yug's 12 km torps and torp reload booster and smoke and low detect, but then nerf its guns, turn radius, and health. Then you have a real anti-BB boat with some capability to knife fight and cap. 

 

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12 minutes ago, UltimateNewbie said:

Hi. Thanks for actually replying to the idea (kinda surprised that it got so much hate, but whatever). 

I think part of that might be quoting the entirety of LWM's long OP and making everyone have to scroll past it...

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1 minute ago, mofton said:

I think part of that might be quoting the entirety of LWM's long OP and making everyone have to scroll past it...

Perhaps. Hard to delete much of it on a mobile phone so perhaps will edit when home. 

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Does anybody else feel like this ship is a direct slap in the face to the Shimakaze? I feel like this is a brutal slap in the face to the Shimakaze...

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Well I know at least one player that will be overjoyed at the sight of an overpowered IJN DD.

 

What am I saying, he'll still complain.

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3 hours ago, Sir_Davos_Seaworth said:

Well...not one I'm interested in, OP or otherwise...but I wonder how many Belfasts are gonna be out for blood when this thing drops. If wargaming was smart, they would put this, AND the Belfast back in the shop at the same time...

g8ag40q.gif

Every ship with Radar would be hunting this ship down. I don't believe that Belfast will be coming back because WG had determined that the Belfast and Kutuzov is situational OP. Of course I thought the same of the Perth, but they placed it back on the shop. Perth is also OP for as long the smoke lasts and it can move with it too.

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