Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Komrade_Rylo

Possible removal of Zao

22 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

1,056
[OPG]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
2,891 posts
10,457 battles

So the recent post talking about tone and hybrid CVS, got me thinking. What if after the CV reworked, hybrid mogami may be added to the tech tree. What if we continued from t8+, a hybrid line? Ijn cruisers from t8+ are very lackluster ships atm, not bad, but they don't have any specialties apart from HE spam, which nearly every t10 cruiser does exceptionally well already. So what if we had a hybrid t10 cruiser/carrier? I think it could be really interesting, and zao would become like the death star in tanks, a premium t10 you can throw any captain into. Or we could just have a line split, but I think a premium t10 crew trainer would be nice. What do you guys think?

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,502
[AHOY_]
Beta Testers
6,486 posts
3,435 battles

There's no reason to remove Zao from the line; at best, it'd be a line split from CA to CAV.

And even if WG did remove Zao, they'd just end up replacing her with a superheavy battlecruiser, such as B65 (aka Mini-Yamato) to rival Alaska/Moskva/Stalingrade/Kronstadt, if not a meaner Zao (IJN Des Moines Senjo pls).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,323 posts
3,585 battles

Hybrid lines are at least a year off and having played Ijn cruisers and Ijn cv's I think this idea is better off discussing in the future when we have gone through the cv rebalance. It is complex enough with the current cv interface adding this into a cruiser and trying to do the job of a cruiser or a carrier wouldn't work. In the same way BB/CV's also failed in practical combat any hybrids with cv's should be considered when we know how the cv rework is going to take place.  Any tier 10 premium will not be coming about unless it is through Clan battles or that token system that will be for the 10% of wows players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,641
[KNMSU]
Members
3,368 posts
3,942 battles

Hybrids would more likely come in the form of either premiums or side-grades (similar to the way that the carriers branch off from the battleships in the early tech trees). There aren't enough of them to flesh out a full tree, and the differential in gameplay would render them highly unsatisfying for players looking for a "pure" cruiser experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
439
[YAN]
Members
1,640 posts
7,466 battles

I do not believe this is needed in the game right, especially as CVs are already in need of a total rework as a type in whole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,355
[NMKJT]
Beta Testers
21,399 posts
3,875 battles

No version of Mogami is a tier 10 ship. At most, we'll get a tier 8 CAV Mikuma premium.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,641
[KNMSU]
Members
3,368 posts
3,942 battles
1 minute ago, KiyoSenkan said:

No version of Mogami is a tier 10 ship. At most, we'll get a tier 8 CAV Mikuma premium.

Or the tech tree version becomes Mikuma, and Mogami the CAV version. I think Mogami was the only one of her class that received that refit?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,866 posts

The hybrid carriers were pretty much of a fail, since they couldn't recover their planes. You could have them launch one fire-and-forget air attack per squadron, and then switch to being battleships again. Difficult, but not impossible. The Tone class had only scout planes, which wouldn't be that hard to work into the game. Just give it more scout planes faster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,355
[NMKJT]
Beta Testers
21,399 posts
3,875 battles
10 minutes ago, Battlecruiser_Kongo said:

Or the tech tree version becomes Mikuma, and Mogami the CAV version. I think Mogami was the only one of her class that received that refit?

Like WG cares what ship had what name? In-game Kongo is actually Hiei. The name ship is the name that the tech tree gets, regardless of the hull's final form.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,497
Beta Testers
6,868 posts
4,189 battles

Not only no, hell no.

Zao is fine. It has a valid functional role. If you really can't figure it out, watch a couple Hurricane clan wars.

Adding aircraft on cruisers? No, just no.  

It was ineffective and stupid to try to make hybrids.  Either it has aircraft or it has effective guns. Pick one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,355
[NMKJT]
Beta Testers
21,399 posts
3,875 battles
17 minutes ago, Grizley said:

It was ineffective and stupid to try to make hybrids.  Either it has aircraft or it has effective guns. Pick one.

Time to strip spotter planes and catapult fighters off every cruiser and battleship in the game then.

  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,641
[KNMSU]
Members
3,368 posts
3,942 battles
23 minutes ago, Grizley said:

Not only no, hell no.

Zao is fine. It has a valid functional role. If you really can't figure it out, watch a couple Hurricane clan wars.

Adding aircraft on cruisers? No, just no.  

It was ineffective and stupid to try to make hybrids.  Either it has aircraft or it has effective guns. Pick one.

Just because you don't find them appealing doesn't mean that A) they didn't exist, and B) wouldn't be someone else's cup of tea.

As is common across the sphere of human experience, it is the unusual - not the homogeneous or uniform - that is eye-catching. 

Edited by Battlecruiser_Kongo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37
[GLF]
Beta Testers
523 posts
10,499 battles
49 minutes ago, Seadog_Supreme said:

The Tone class had only scout planes, which wouldn't be that hard to work into the game. Just give it more scout planes faster.

Just swap the "Jake"'s for "Rufe"'s(Zero Float Fighter)

Love to have Tone or Chikuma in port

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,497
Beta Testers
6,868 posts
4,189 battles
23 minutes ago, Battlecruiser_Kongo said:

Just because you don't find them appealing doesn't mean that A) they didn't exist, and B) wouldn't be someone else's cup of tea.

As is common across the sphere of human experience, it is the unusual - not the homogeneous or uniform - that is eye-catching. 

 

They existed, they were just as useful as a screen door on a submarine.

They were not effective weapons. At all. If they were added them people would whine until they had some sort of stupid fantasy buffs like having 50 carrier aircraft and being able to launch and recover.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,641
[KNMSU]
Members
3,368 posts
3,942 battles
12 minutes ago, Grizley said:

 

They existed, they were just as useful as a screen door on a submarine.

They were not effective weapons. At all. If they were added them people would whine until they had some sort of stupid fantasy buffs like having 50 carrier aircraft and being able to launch and recover.  

That's an exaggeration. They still had the same armament as a Kongo class; they had one of the most densely concentrated AA suites ever fitted to a Japanese warship. If they had been able to actually mount their aircraft as-designed, then in a typical fleet engagement, they would have definitely had military utility - 22 aircraft (for a total of 44 combined between the two ships) would be nothing to sneeze at in a line fight. That's definitely enough bombers to sink a few battleships. Plus, in order to counter-balance the weight loss of the two turrets, the flight decks of both vessels were made of 7.8 inches of concrete, which held up quite well even after both ships were bombed to smithereens at Kure.

Now, obviously, the war had changed by the time Ise and Hyuga were converted. But to say that they were not effective weapons is simply wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,497
Beta Testers
6,868 posts
4,189 battles
3 minutes ago, Battlecruiser_Kongo said:

That's an exaggeration. They still had the same armament as a Kongo class; they had one of the most densely concentrated AA suites ever fitted to a Japanese warship. If they had been able to actually mount their aircraft as-designed, then in a typical fleet engagement, they would have definitely had military utility - 22 aircraft (for a total of 44 combined between the two ships) would be nothing to sneeze at in a line fight. That's definitely enough bombers to sink a few battleships. Plus, in order to counter-balance the weight loss of the two turrets, the flight decks of both vessels were made of 7.8 inches of concrete, which held up quite well even after both ships were bombed to smithereens at Kure.

Now, obviously, the war had changed by the time Ise and Hyuga were converted. But to say that they were not effective weapons is simply wrong.

 

Dense AA for an IJN ship translates to "considerably less than Fletcher AA". Not really a role.

They were completely useless as weapons, I'm sorry. Even if they had the ability to operate 22 aircraft, which is a big if, they still wouldn't be an effective weapon.  Think of the breakdown of that, you'd maybe get 10 bombers out of that and no USN ship let alone formation is worried about 10 bombers.  

And no, loading up 22 bombers is even worse. They'd get slapped down without fighter cover.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
180
[SIDE]
Members
730 posts
3,263 battles
1 hour ago, Seadog_Supreme said:

The hybrid carriers were pretty much of a fail, since they couldn't recover their planes. You could have them launch one fire-and-forget air attack per squadron, and then switch to being battleships again. Difficult, but not impossible. The Tone class had only scout planes, which wouldn't be that hard to work into the game. Just give it more scout planes faster.

They would recover them via how every other non carrier ship recovers them, through the cranes. 

 

Sure realistically they would be sitting ducks while this happened, but every other ship doesn't wait around for this to happen. =p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,826
[ARRGG]
[ARRGG]
Members
5,770 posts
1 hour ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Time to strip spotter planes and catapult fighters off every cruiser and battleship in the game then.

There is a difference from 1 plane  / 2 if skill is selected to a squadron of planes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
204 posts
7,415 battles

In this regard I feel like we would get submarines in the game before hybrid carrier's. It would require a big change in game mechanics and it would also have slightly abandon realism. Even if the Ise class of hybrids had a full aircraft complement give the time of the war they would not have been effective due the the complete lack of experienced pilots. I would love to see Wargameing work with these ideas but it will take a long time. IF I am remembering correctly Wargameing has confirmed that the will work on this concept after the carrier rework and general game mechanic changes. This applied to the Tone and the Ise hybrid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×