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The Hindenburg Slide...

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I got all excited about Hinde when I first got it and the ship produced. I was having reasonable games in it with the reload mod. Then things started to take a turn from an early 60% up to around 30-40 battles and now sitting in the 40s . I was getting deleted easily no matter what I did- so I went to youtube and tapped into Flamu for some advice. His videos sway between reload mod and range mod and it made sense given the current static gameplay to lean more on the range mod. Damage levels are still up but W/R makes a suggestion that I'm not having sufficient impact on the overall battle to secure victory. My survival in the ship goes up while W/R continues to decline. 

I'm not a guy who likes to hide behind islands at 20km for an entire battle and I do appreciate the flexibility afforded by the range to be working out in the open more. Changing speed and course frequently, watching the PT indicator and scanning for BBs shooting at me... kiting... AP on broadsides... 

Is Hinde a ship that is expected to influence the course of a battle or is it better used to mop up after more significant ships? 

What has your experience been so far?

 

 

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Hindenburg is the backbone of a lot of Clan Battles teams because it is extremely versatile. Whether you choose to use that power for damage farming or for wins is up to you.

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its best when either at 15km+ or sub 10km    depending on situation.     great brawler when situation calls for it.    but like all cruiser, you need good situation awareness.  

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Hindenburg is my favorite ship. But you have to play it smartly as you can get deleted quickly if caught out in the open. It has great firepower but do not show a broadside or you blow up quickly. Also stay away from Demoines there ROF will hurt you.

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Hindenburg is very versatile but you have to play within the Tier 10 meta with very dangerous ships running around. Do not expose her vulnerable broadside and avoid getting focused down early. Use cover and concealment to your advantage. Her nose is very tough unless you're up against Yamato/Musashi. Move in with some buddies when you have the advantage. Here is my result from this morning.

hindy4.jpg

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You mention something I have noticed. Often when I get a new ship I will put the basic upgrades on her and for bout 20+ or so matches I will be winning at something like 60% then wins start going down. I have had this happen quite a bit. Anyone else have this phenomena occur? It's odd.

Edited by dmckay

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3 minutes ago, dmckay said:

You mention something I have noticed. Often when I get a new ship I will put the basic upgrades on her and for bout 20 or so matches I will be winning at something like 60% then wins start going down. I have had this happen quite a bit. Anyone else have this phenomena occur? It's odd.

You get the high win rate and mentally adjust your opinion of the ship as being more powerful than it is. Then you become less careful with it.

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I use reload for randoms.  Hindenburg is probably my favorite T10 cruiser and what I wish my DM was when it comes to survivability.  Depends on what the situation is whether I kite in it or push in it, and it's a fantastic ship for running delay on a flank that's being pushed.  Also don't forget you have AP, and use it liberally on broadside battleships and cruisers (works great vs. the Khaba as well).  It is a tanky ship and if you know what you're doing you can outduel a BB in the right situation, but at the end of the day you're still a cruiser so don't take the Battleship Hindenburg hype too seriously.  Also something to keep in mind is that to get all 4 turrets on a target, you have to give up a fair amount of broadside, so you need to constantly be paying attention to the minimap and wiggling and keep an eye on the angles that you're giving to other ships.  Play your ship to its strengths, not its meme reputation.

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4 minutes ago, dmckay said:

You mention something I have noticed. Often when I get a new ship I will put the basic upgrades on her and for bout 20+ or so matches I will be winning at something like 60% then wins start going down. I have had this happen quite a bit. Anyone else have this phenomena occur? It's odd.

I'm normally the exact opposite.  My first 20 games will be filled with complete stupidity and I'll be around a 30-40% wr, then after 60-70 battles, I'll be up around my normal 55-60% wr.

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39 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

Hindenburg is the backbone of a lot of Clan Battles teams because it is extremely versatile. Whether you choose to use that power for damage farming or for wins is up to you.

Okay so I guess the next question is... if it's as vulnerable as any other cruiser at mid range how does one "win" in it when you have DDs in cap at close range while BBs remain at long range pretty much all game, every game with a few exceptions. I understand that in close and personal with battleships you get pretty tanky with the turtleback- but it happens really close. I'm not concealed enough and not maneuverable enough to reliably defeat the dispersion of 9-12 guns between 12-15 km which is where BBs tend to dwell. It's hard to find a pocket where you're not simply exchanging one vulnerability for another. 

21 minutes ago, Raven114 said:

Hindenburg is my favorite ship. But you have to play it smartly as you can get deleted quickly if caught out in the open. It has great firepower but do not show a broadside or you blow up quickly. Also stay away from Demoines there ROF will hurt you.

In close against BBs is it still better to be angled or broadside for overpends / turtleback? 

18 minutes ago, dmckay said:

You mention something I have noticed. Often when I get a new ship I will put the basic upgrades on her and for bout 20+ or so matches I will be winning at something like 60% then wins start going down. I have had this happen quite a bit. Anyone else have this phenomena occur? It's odd.

Undoubtedly confirmation bias but I have definitely found this as well. You get this short term "honeymoon" period and once you hit 20 battles it hits the dumper. 

Edited by Gascan75

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hind's 2week average damage is 82.6k, your average is 87.6k, so about exactly 5k more than the server average, so you're sitting almost perfectly at the server's average stat

 

you have 2 ways to go

1 is to raise your raw damage, to at least 6 digit maybe

2 is to raise the quality of your damage, more cruiser destroyer damage, and less battleship damage

both would increase your influence in game

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The problem with the Hindenburg is simple: it's so huge, ponderous, and relatively robust compared to other cruisers (and semi-sarcastically hyped as an actual battleship by famous players like Yuro) that people tend to slowly shed the caution that they learned while playing the rest of the tree.

It is still a cruiser. It still has a gigantoid citadel and a big 'shoot me first' sign draped around its neck. In particular, Hindy's tempting torpedo armament should be viewed similarly to that of Mutsu/Kii rather than Tirpitz - they are there for your 'oh #$&*' moments, not the enemy's.

Edited by Battlecruiser_Kongo

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4 minutes ago, Gascan75 said:

Okay so I guess the next question is... if it's as vulnerable as any other cruiser at mid range how does one "win" in it when you have DDs in cap at close range while BBs remain at long range pretty much all game, every game with a few exceptions. I understand that in close and personal with battleships you get pretty tanky with the turtleback- but it happens really close. I'm not concealed enough and not maneuverable enough to reliably defeat the dispersion of 9-12 guns between 12-15 km which is where BBs tend to dwell. It's hard to find a pocket where you're not simply exchanging one vulnerability for another. 

i usually sit at 15+km angled(about where i barely get to shoot all 4 of my guns), BBs uaually dont get a lot of pen

tested this with my friend's yamato in training room, burned him down and i still had ~30k HP left

Quote

In close against BBs is it still better to be angled or broadside for overpends / turtleback? 

always angle

even if turtleback, a full salvo of penetrations is still 20k or more, hurts like hell...........

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5 minutes ago, Gascan75 said:

Okay so I guess the next question is... if it's as vulnerable as any other cruiser at mid range how does one "win" in it when you have DDs in cap at close range while BBs remain at long range pretty much all game, every game with a few exceptions. I understand that in close and personal with battleships you get pretty tanky with the turtleback- but it happens really close. I'm not concealed enough and not maneuverable enough to reliably defeat the dispersion of 9-12 guns between 12-15 km which is where BBs tend to dwell. It's hard to find a pocket where you're not simply exchanging one vulnerability for another. 

In close against BBs is it still better to be angled or broadside for overpends / turtleback? 

Undoubtedly confirmation bias but I have definitely found this as well. You get this short term "honeymoon" period and once you hit 20 battles it hits the dumper. 

Hmmmm you say confirmation bias then you also say you have "definitely" found this as well. Do you really get a honeymoon period?  That would be manipulative of WG!  Tin Foil Hat stuff!  Rigging!  Interesting if honeymoon period is true. Carry on. :Smile_honoring:

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7 minutes ago, jason199506 said:

i usually sit at 15+km angled(about where i barely get to shoot all 4 of my guns), BBs uaually dont get a lot of pen

Yeah. In the early parts of the match, soften up and threaten their battleships. You will die if you try to get close before they've thinned out. This applies to all cruisers, really, except the island-huggers like Des Moines.

In the late game is when the turtleback, high-damage AP, and torpedoes come in.

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12 minutes ago, dmckay said:

Hmmmm you say confirmation bias then you also say you have "definitely" found this as well. Do you really get a honeymoon period?  That would be manipulative of WG!  Tin Foil Hat stuff!  Rigging!  Interesting if honeymoon period is true. Carry on. :Smile_honoring:

Well- I don't mean that YOU are suffering confirmation bias... but the two of us probably are. 

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attacking flanks,   pushing using covers, general fleet support are all possible with hindy.    I am still in honeymoon stage with hindy.  :D   after 70 + matches.    

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8 minutes ago, Gascan75 said:

Okay so I guess the next question is... if it's as vulnerable as any other cruiser at mid range how does one "win" in it when you have DDs in cap at close range while BBs remain at long range pretty much all game, every game with a few exceptions. I understand that in close and personal with battleships you get pretty tanky with the turtleback- but it happens really close. I'm not concealed enough and not maneuverable enough to reliably defeat the dispersion of 9-12 guns between 12-15 km which is where BBs tend to dwell. It's hard to find a pocket where you're not simply exchanging one vulnerability for another. 

Early game when there are a lot more BBs around you have to choose your timing on when to engage. It's not worth doing 1 salvo of damage to a DD if it means you'll get Dev striked. You should still engage DDs from the beginning, just be smart about when you open fire. A few things you can do to mitigate any potential damage during early game are 1) start turning when you are spotted and assume every turret is turning towards you; you don't have enough time to dodge if you start turning even after someone locks on (sometimes people don't lock on until they are ready to shoot) 2) If you manage to stay concealed when a target shows up, consider pre-angling against potentially incoming shells before opening fire and reveal yourself. 3) if you start to take fire, especially from 2+ ships just dodge and go dark and don't worry about shooting. The more people are targeting you means the poorer the position you are in; people are targeting you cuz they think you are an easy kill. The more guns are on you at 15+km away, means less guns are on your allies. Once ships starts dying, you'll have more freedom to act and can take more risks, stay engage for longer. Don't be in a hurry to deal damage, play the long game and make it a win. 

9 minutes ago, Gascan75 said:

In close against BBs is it still better to be angled or broadside for overpends / turtleback? 

Ask yourself, why are you in close against a BB in the first place? The most advantageous position for a Hindy to be in against a BB is kiting/angling away at 15+ km where you can just stack pens and fires. At that distance you have the speed to dictate the engagement and the maneuverability to dodge just about everything. If the BB lose interest in you, turn around until he is targeting you again, once he is interested in you then wait for them to fire a salvo and make a U turn to get back into a kiting position. Rinse and repeat until he dies. The armor on the Hindy isn't there for you to "tank" incoming damage, it's to give you a better opportunity to disengage from an unfavorable situation so you can come back and re-engage on your own term. Sure if a BB is shooting at you, you should bow in to mitigate the damage from angling and providing a smaller profile, but you shouldn't just sit there and take it. The "turtleback" is mostly moot against  close range BBs since if they are close they'll stack so much regular pens on you that you wouldn't live long after a salvo anyways. 

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Excellent, another opportunity to link to the Hindenburg in its natural environment! Honestly, it's a great ship and on my Top 3 all time fun to play list.

 

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12 minutes ago, Gascan75 said:

Well- I don't mean that YOU are suffering confirmation bias... but the two of us probably are. 

Ha.  Could be. Tks

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23 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

Yeah. In the early parts of the match, soften up and threaten their battleships. You will die if you try to get close before they've thinned out. This applies to all cruisers, really, except the island-huggers like Des Moines.

In the late game is when the turtleback, high-damage AP, and torpedoes come in.

This.

Too many BBs and too many angles early in the match. Soften them up and conserve your health so you can brawl later.

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 you need to have DD spotting the redteam and you need to be able to use cover to turn. 

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Hindenburg's protection scheme is actually at her best when the range is close.  The further out, she can get deleted by a BB that lands a solid AP salvo like any other Cruiser.  But in a knife fight, i.e. getting ready to impale a BB with 2 sets worth of torps from one side, she is amazingly resilient.

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I actually prefer reload module, then take premium spotter + spotter plane upgrade. IMO range mod is good, but doesn't help for crapif you have to push up close. As Edge has said, soften the hard targets, support your DD's and push up with the team. Also, IMO KM CA's make excellent kite / peel ships, you would be surprised how many ships you can peel away just by moving forward and then kiting back.

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33 minutes ago, Kevs02Accord said:

I actually prefer reload module, then take premium spotter + spotter plane upgrade. IMO range mod is good, but doesn't help for crapif you have to push up close. As Edge has said, soften the hard targets, support your DD's and push up with the team. Also, IMO KM CA's make excellent kite / peel ships, you would be surprised how many ships you can peel away just by moving forward and then kiting back.

This

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