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KelvarGarth

Up-tiering T5 SUCKS

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I play the Nicholas, a good DD at T5 and totally incapable of being played at T7 competitively.  The last week all I get its Tier 5,6,7 games and it is ABSURD.  The DD CANNOT handle the T7 ships.  They are so fundamentally better than a T5 DD with short range torps it is crazy.

I am stopping playing my Nicholas and most T5 ships because this is so screwed up.  STOP UPTIERING T5 SHIPS!!!!!

 

 

 

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Makes no difference when you get to T6, you will see 8"s and so on, you have to see what the enemy, and your team is doing and adapt, what you did using a T4 won't be the same when you see 7's in your 5.  

 

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Changes to +2/-2 need to be made at this point in the game.

Many threads discussing this.

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Well there's been a lot of threads on this lately might be a riot soon

That's pretty much why I don't play tier 5 Destroyers it's just not fun for the most part being in the upper tier games

Just have to grind through them

I found the sweet spots for learning Destroyers and getting good at them was T4 then after that you got to avoid the up tiering of T8 into T10 games so t7 seem to be another good spot to have fun in Destroyers less super carriers and minimal radar sounds like good times for Destroyer

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2 minutes ago, Wulfgarn said:

Changes to +2/-2 need to be made at this point in the game.

Many threads discussing this.

Sub_Octavian started on Reddit they will never change the +2/-2 system, because they want to 'push people to advance'...aka, they wanna frustrate people and drive them to spend money on FXP conversions and premium camo at tier 9 and 10.

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Nicholas does suffer while uptiered. O.R., Kongo, Kamikaze, Mutsuki, Minekaze, Furutaka, Konigsberg, and Emile Bertin fare much better. 

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17 minutes ago, Battlecruiser_Kongo said:

Funny, I don't find it even nearly as frustrating as uptiering from tier 8.

Primarily because the power creep between T8 and T10 is absurd.

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I have no issue playing T5 against T7, but then again I use a gremmy most of the time.

I also enjoy killing an Atlanta with a T5 dd as well.

The thing is they have stated MM isnt going to change, so you have to deal with it.

Edited by CriMiNaL__

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4 minutes ago, Perriwen said:

Sub_Octavian started on Reddit they will never change the +2/-2 system, because they want to 'push people to advance'...aka, they wanna frustrate people and drive them to spend money on FXP conversions and premium camo at tier 9 and 10.

:Smile_great:

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The problem isn't +/- 2 mm, the issue is the protected low tier mm. It was put in place to protect against seal clubbers but it reinforced it since T4 ships are almost always top tier and forced T5 to be bottom tier. This has another effect because getting to T5 is pretty easy and fast, now you have new players facing players with way more experience at playing this game. 

 

They need to switch it back to the way it used to so new players are eased into mid tiers instead of being slammed into it when they leave T4

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It can be a headache, but killing a Scharnhorst( not full health of course, but 12kishdmg iirc)  in my Omaha was fun, I can only imagine the rage the Scharnhorst player had.

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Just wait till you hit T10 where half the ships have radar. They should MM where it's 1 level difference max up or down.

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1 minute ago, Ruthless4u said:

It can be a headache, but killing a Scharnhorst( not full health of course, but 12kishdmg iirc)  in my Omaha was fun, I can only imagine the rage the Scharnhorst player had.

I prefer using Marblehead, Emerald, or Konigsburg; but yes.

10 minutes ago, pewpewpew42 said:

Nicholas does suffer while uptiered. O.R., Kongo, Kamikaze, Mutsuki, Minekaze, Furutaka, Konigsberg, and Emile Bertin fare much better. 

ninja’d.

8 minutes ago, CriMiNaL__ said:

I also enjoy killing an Atlanta with a T5 dd as well.

Morons not paying attention.

Any Atlanta driver who loses to a T5 destroyer has no one to blame but themselves.

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Just now, El_Swamp_Rat said:

Just wait till you hit T10 where half the ships have radar. They should MM where it's 1 level difference max up or down.

No way, I cant think of anything more fun and engaging setting fires on a yammy 14 km away while he wastes his time taking pot shots at me, then I go dark and torp him, in a T8

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Just now, Estimated_Prophet said:

Morons not paying attention.

Any Atlanta driver who loses to a T5 destroyer has no one to blame but themselves.

The Atlantas Ive killed in my T5 dd have all been very aware, the problem for them is, I out range them.

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The queue times are long enough without the matchmaker having to carve up tiers even further. If you're grinding to a particular ship, just keep that goal in the back of your head and look at bottom tier as an opportunity for massive xp gains.

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Honestly, if I'm getting uptierd, it doesn't bother me at all. I just look on it as a challenge. You ALWAYS have to do your best while having fun and enjoying the game. No need to agonize over game mechanics. Just go with the flow, wreck havoc. DD's up tier well, were as CA's don't, but wth, utilize the mini map to your advantage, partner up with a high tier ship, and wreck havoc. There are many ways to beat the odds if you are low tier in a battle,, play second string, use cover, be the shot caller/focus caller. You would be surprised that when someone call for focus fire, most teammates will indeed shoot the bad guy in question. And realize that the more damage you do to higher tierd ships the more coin you make,, so stay alive, worship Rosie Odonald & wreck Havoc,,,,,, oh and have a bowl of Wheaties,,,,,,

 

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38 minutes ago, CriMiNaL__ said:

I have no issue playing T5 against T7, but then again I use a gremmy most of the time.

I also enjoy killing an Atlanta with a T5 dd as well.

The thing is they have stated MM isnt going to change, so you have to deal with it.

I play my T5 Omaha periodically and quite often have ended up in matches where top tier was T7.  Frankly you have to learn to play smart, find ways and places where you can do damage and not get deleted by T7 cruisers.  It ain't easy but as you say sometimes you get the joy of taking down an Atlanta or other T7 ships, especially if they are not paying attention to you.  In one match not long ago I found a "hole" next to an island that covered a flank while I thoroughly pissed off a T6 BB by burning him down even as he was dueling with one of "our" BBs and saw the tracking of an Atlanta who apparently wasn't watching the mini-map.  The BB blew up (Arsonist) and I would have vanished from the minimap for the enemy team, but the Atlanta kept coming.  I shifted from HE to AP after deciding the time delay would be too great to get torps aimed and launched.  I pulled out of my "hole" and into his sight at point blank range with his broadside to me, my guns were aimed for the waterline amidships and I let him have it.  :Smile_izmena:

6 hits, 4 citadels deleted him from the match because he didn't even know I was there despite the dead BB.  His secondaries didn't even get a chance to do more than minor damage.  

When I'm bottom tier like that I try to look for opportunities, not simply to hide as others do.  I try to treat each match as a learning experience.  With this ship it's a real challenge because Omaha is decidedly non-stealthy.

Edited by CAPT_Rob

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Yep, the Nich has it so bad when in a T7. Meanwhile the Farra and Mahan have it made in T8/T9 matches.

Seriously, the Nichs worst issue in T7 is the lack of an IQ booster consumable.

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It sounds like you don't know how to play DD at higher tiers. You have 5.8km concealment. Use that to extend your torp range. You can kite and torp ships that are rushing you. That's how you extend your torpedo range. You're going to need to learn how to do this, as it becomes mandatory for almost every DD tree.

5.8km is more than enough concealment to contest caps. You outspot almost everything except your T5 IJN contemporaries. As I'm sure you already know, Minekaze, Mutsuki and Kamikaze are quite easy to rush and run down. They're not going to outgun you.

Edited by awildseaking
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1 hour ago, Psycodiver said:

The problem isn't +/- 2 mm, the issue is the protected low tier mm. It was put in place to protect against seal clubbers but it reinforced it since T4 ships are almost always top tier and forced T5 to be bottom tier. This has another effect because getting to T5 is pretty easy and fast, now you have new players facing players with way more experience at playing this game. 

 

They need to switch it back to the way it used to so new players are eased into mid tiers instead of being slammed into it when they leave T4

This, it is more the shock of going from the protected MM than anything else. The OP has a 54% W/R which is well above the server average and excellent average damage in the Nicolas and he also performs better overall in the Nicolas than he does in the Farragut or the Mahan. This comes off to me more like complaining he can't club at will.

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Yep, I've been saying this for about a year on the WoWs forums and about 3 years on the WoT forums. It's obvious to players that +/-1 is more enjoyable - but WG doesn't want to devote resources to something that doesn't visibly/directly result in more revenue. It's a kind of insecurity, really. They don't want to make investments that aren't clear-cut.

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1 hour ago, KelvarGarth said:

I play the Nicholas, a good DD at T5 and totally incapable of being played at T7 competitively.  The last week all I get its Tier 5,6,7 games and it is ABSURD.  The DD CANNOT handle the T7 ships.  They are so fundamentally better than a T5 DD with short range torps it is crazy.

I am stopping playing my Nicholas and most T5 ships because this is so screwed up.  STOP UPTIERING T5 SHIPS!!!!!

 

 

 

My Kamikaze and Gremyaschy have no problems whatsoever in a tier 7 game.  So the reality is that the Nicholas is giving you fits because it's not a very good DD - or you are playing it poorly - I don't know which it is, but the grind is pretty short on tier 5 DD's.  I got through the T-22 grind in 10 games and the Podvoisky grind in 8 games or PvP play.  My Nicholas grind was 3 games PvE and 17 of PvP, the newer grinds are shorter because of the bountiful amount of xp boosting flags and camo that I have earned from in game events, or received from Santa crates. 

It's almost like WG wants people to accelerate their grinds through weaker ships by spending money ...... oh yeah, it's a business isn't it. 

Also, you will find that the Farragut is overpowered easily by tier 8 Dd's and cruisers, and the Mahan is simply a tasty snack for a other tier 7 DD's like the  Gadjah Madah, a Leningrad or a Blyskawica just to name a few.  The US line doesn't really get back on track as competitive line until the Benson.  So I imagine you should probably shelve the whole US line or free xp to the tier 8 if the Nicholas is giving you such fits.....

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