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Fletcher7_1944

Lyon- First Impressions.

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  Got Lyon from a mission, and decided to use it for the new French Campaign.    I have Bretagne, too but it doesn't qualify.

 

  Observation #1:  According to the blurb, Bretagne is 3 years NEWER than Lyon- but Lyon is far more modern...  quad turrets; ALL secondaries both turreted and dual purpose, etc.   Methinks there's a typo in there somewhere, lol.   Seems very odd that a pre-WW I ship  is more modern than ships designed and built sometimes 2 decades after it...   Heck, it's only 3 years newer than South Carolina!

  Playwise, I like it so far.   16 main battery guns means plenty of first shot kills on cruisers.   They're fairly accurate, too.  It only took me three games to top the team in points earned and well exceed 100k damage with it.    Angled, it's very tanky vs the BB's I've fought so far.  (mostly other Lyons and 14" armed ships, but a gneiss and a QE II as well)  I have yet to be shot at with 16" guns, so...

  Secondaries get silly numbers of hits.   Have not seen a CV, so the AA has yet to be tested.   Which is good, because I went for a main battery build and only have a 3 point captain in it, lol.

cons:  slow turret traverse, and rather poor firing angles- you really have to angle hard to get more than your bow turret on target.   Fortunately, as noted above, the armor protects quite nicely when angled!   I chose Adrenaline Rush as my first 2 pt skill, so there's that reason for the sluggish turrets, too...    Rudder is pretty slow, too- but again, It's not fully upgraded. (I haven't added a 1 mil upgrade yet, but rudder shift will almost certainly be it.)

  Anyhow, I think I'm going to like this one!

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A fine ship--I have the special French captain in her (enhanced Expert Gunner and Adrenaline) and could be my fave tier VII BB, we'll see.

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5 hours ago, francesabyss said:

Lyon- First Impressions.

 

Kinda crap.

Far from crap.........borderline OP at times.  Especially top tier.

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Yeah, 16 BB-class guns is NOT what this game needs.  That's just a shotgun to the face of all cruisers it sees, and even DDs.

Remove the middle quad turret. Either that, or hard nerf the accuracy.  You can't have this kind of thing running around and landing 8+ shots on a cruiser at 10km all the time.  Even if you're overpenning ALL of those shots, that's still over 7k per salvo. And it's "small" guns are still big enough caliber to overmatch the bow armor of every single T7 and lower cruiser, so you can literally citadel them all with that 16-shot blast. Really game-breaking to be able to destroy a 100% healthy CL/CA with a single volley when the CA driver is presenting the minimal target profile to you. Not to mention that it's equally deadly with plunging fire, because CAs have crappy overhead armor, and with 16 shells, you'll be landing 2-3 per salvo even at long distances.

I'm not even close to being a real good BB player, and I'm reliably doing 12k+ per salvo against cruisers (2-3 pens, 3-4 overpens) for even low-percentage shots. Less against BBs, because of low caliber.

Cruisers already struggle in this game, so we don't need another thing specialized in nuking them easily.

 

Like I said, probably the best solution is to remove the middle 4-gun turret, and maybe buff the reload from 30 to 26 seconds.

 


 

Not to mention that it has significantly less (compared to its peers) in the way of superstructure to target, so DDs have a very hard time doing damage to it with their guns.

 


 

As far as the armor goes, it's gimmicky.  Lots of weird shot traps, strange angles, and unusual plating. Makes aiming at it a real (no pun intended) hit-or-miss thing, because you really can't tell where to aim to do reliable damage.

Then again, this goes for most of the French BB line, all of which seem to define the concept of "We ran out of ideas, so let's just through a bunch of random stuff together and call it a day."  The whole Speed Boost for a battleship just screams this "featuritis" problem.

Edited by EAnybody
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4 hours ago, EAnybody said:

That's just a shotgun to the face of all cruisers it sees, and even DDs.

I agree with you partially but you make it sound like this thing is broken out the gate and it isn't.  I've been encountering tons of Normandies and Lyons while playing my Cleveland and Pensacola and I don't feel like the situation is all that bad.  Both those ships are priority targets already being made of Citadels with pop can thick aluminum armor but I don't feel any worse off now than a month ago.  Ok yea sure blunder into one at close range and your screwed but that's true with just about any BB.

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Stone cold monster. First run at Hermes:

 

XHXn9fF.jpg

 

One of those citadels was on a Sharn... By the Seven that thing can sling some steel!!! 

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19 hours ago, EAnybody said:

Yeah, 16 BB-class guns is NOT what this game needs.  That's just a shotgun to the face of all cruisers it sees, and even DDs.

Remove the middle quad turret. Either that, or hard nerf the accuracy.  You can't have this kind of thing running around and landing 8+ shots on a cruiser at 10km all the time.  Even if you're overpenning ALL of those shots, that's still over 7k per salvo. And it's "small" guns are still big enough caliber to overmatch the bow armor of every single T7 and lower cruiser, so you can literally citadel them all with that 16-shot blast. Really game-breaking to be able to destroy a 100% healthy CL/CA with a single volley when the CA driver is presenting the minimal target profile to you. Not to mention that it's equally deadly with plunging fire, because CAs have crappy overhead armor, and with 16 shells, you'll be landing 2-3 per salvo even at long distances.

I'm not even close to being a real good BB player, and I'm reliably doing 12k+ per salvo against cruisers (2-3 pens, 3-4 overpens) for even low-percentage shots. Less against BBs, because of low caliber.

Cruisers already struggle in this game, so we don't need another thing specialized in nuking them easily.

 

Like I said, probably the best solution is to remove the middle 4-gun turret, and maybe buff the reload from 30 to 26 seconds.

 


 

Not to mention that it has significantly less (compared to its peers) in the way of superstructure to target, so DDs have a very hard time doing damage to it with their guns.

 


 

As far as the armor goes, it's gimmicky.  Lots of weird shot traps, strange angles, and unusual plating. Makes aiming at it a real (no pun intended) hit-or-miss thing, because you really can't tell where to aim to do reliable damage.

Then again, this goes for most of the French BB line, all of which seem to define the concept of "We ran out of ideas, so let's just through a bunch of random stuff together and call it a day."  The whole Speed Boost for a battleship just screams this "featuritis" problem.

I am a cruiser main as a fyi. I don't see a problem with it. If you're that close, and showing significant broadside, you deserve to get deleted. I also have this BB, have aimed at cruisers further away and watched as my shells bracket him with minimal dmg. The key to playing cruisers is awareness. Be aware of every BB on the map, where they were last seen, do they have you targetted, am I near cover, do I have an escape plan. Playing cruisers in this meta is not easy, nor should it be.

As for the speed boost, the youtube reviewers seem to think it's pretty useless. I don't. It allows you to flex around the map, allows you to easily keep up with cruisers, allows greater control over bow-tanking movement and makes dodging torpedoes easier.

 

Edited by _Rumple_

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1 hour ago, _Rumple_ said:

I am a cruiser main as a fyi. I don't see a problem with it. If you're that close, and showing significant broadside, you deserve to get deleted. I also have this BB, have aimed at cruisers further away and watched as my shells bracket him with minimal dmg. The key to playing cruisers is awareness. Be aware of every BB on the map, where they were last seen, do they have you targetted, am I near cover, do I have an escape plan. Playing cruisers in this meta is not easy, nor should it be.

I'm both a DD and CA main, and, frankly, I'm pretty good, so I know how to play both very well.

The issue I have with the Lyon is that it makes landing those LoLCitadels (that all CAs are vulnerable to no matter what you do) much, much, much simpler. This is independent of distance or the target orientation - it simple citadels CAs at a much higher rate than any other BB, and that's mostly a function of the huge volume per salvo (though also due to the fairly decent dispersion/sigma).

Playing CAs is already quite hard, and the Lyon gives BB players yet another easy tool to beat CAs with. Not a lot of skill in aiming or positioning or any other gameplay when you can blat out a plunging citadel practically every salvo at a cruiser 15km away.  Which I (an admittedly mediocre BB player) have zero problem doing.

 

1 hour ago, _Rumple_ said:

As for the speed boost, the youtube reviewers seem to think it's pretty useless. I don't. It allows you to flex around the map, allows you to easily keep up with cruisers, allows greater control over bow-tanking movement and makes dodging torpedoes easier.

It's +8%. That's barely 2 knots (2.4 or so).  It's also straight-line speed only - as soon as you try to turn, you lose any benefit of the Engine Boost speed. And if you're sailing that long in a straight line, you'll be nuked (and rightfully so).

Plus, you can already keep up with the CAs, as the T8+ French BBs do 30 knots, and most CAs can't do more than 34 at the very best, and again, that's straight line speed.  The truth is that once you hit T7, the difference in speed between CAs and BBs is pretty marginal, and it's far outpaced by the range of their guns.

Engine boost on the French cruisers means something. Not on the BBs. It really is just a gimmick for them.

It would make much more sense if the BBs were equipped with say a +15% speed bump for more, but much shorter, time periods (say 4 charges for 1 minute).

 

I'm pretty sure all your perceived benefits are confirmation bias, not actual measurable enhancements.

 

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Sea cancer against cruisers, which do not have enough range at Tier 7 for the bloom to actually miss them for the most part. See Fiji for example.

More importantly, the huge bloom is enough that the drifting shells generally still hit even if the target dodged outside a normal BB's bloom circle.

 

Needs significant nerfbat to rate of fire and increased accuracy to compensate, becuase no way in hell WG will remove the middle turret (in which case buff reload and tighten accuracy to compensate, like a KGV with more guns but less ROF each and less pen).

Edited by Guardian54

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The Normandie SR-2? I don't have one, but I also don't really have trouble dealing with them. She's got a lot of guns, sure, but they never seem to hit that hard for some reason. iDunno, maybe I'm just misremembering, but whenever I see one in my Alabama or Tirpitz recently all I see is free damage. Maybe I'm just running into people that suck at driving her.

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On 3/14/2018 at 12:20 AM, Landsraad said:

The Normandie SR-2? I don't have one, but I also don't really have trouble dealing with them. She's got a lot of guns, sure, but they never seem to hit that hard for some reason. iDunno, maybe I'm just misremembering, but whenever I see one in my Alabama or Tirpitz recently all I see is free damage. Maybe I'm just running into people that suck at driving her.

Hey

To be fair though; your talking two T8 BB's up against a T7 ship for comparison.  Difference in guns, armor, speed, turret rotation speed, handling, etc.  Not to mention the Lyon hasn't been out that long so many people are still new with it.  I just got mine tonight and haven't even set it up yet.  I'm going to hate those slow rotating guns.

 

Pete

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