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The_Feets

CVs: I must be doing something wrong

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I picked up the Hosho to learn how to CV. It went well enough and I earned a 62% win rate.

 

Then, I stepped up to the Zuiho.

 

How does 18% w/r sound? Yeah, it sounds like you'd love to be on the opposing team. I stuffed a 10 pt capt in it but can't seem to keep planes in the air. I get dominated by enemy fighters. The last game is a perfect example. It was a 4/5 match against a Bogue. I shot down two spotters, two fighters, and 1 torp plane. In exchange, I lost 8 fighters, 7 bombers, and 1 torp plane. 1 bomber was lost to a Wyoming. The Bogue ate everything else.

 

I'd like to learn the CV play style but failing my way through it is rather disheartening. Should I ditch the IJN line and move over to the US?

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I found at low tier the us line was easier overall. The challenge is in trying to keep up with the fleet since your concealment is atrocious and you're a very very slow ship. 

Try not to engage fighters out in the open since it's entirely Rng. Try to engage closer to friendly ships so they can take a chunk out of the fighters too. 

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You need 11 point captain to really get going.  Put them into 1 pt skills Servicing Expert, Dog Fighting expert, 2 pt skills then take torpedo acceleration or expert rear runner, at 3pt take Torpedo Armament Expertise, then 4pt skill take Air Supremacy.  

If you are up against a USN CV in a IJN like Zuiho, engage fighters over friendly cruisers and battleships, never out in the open, Zuiho fighters lose Everytime to a Bogue's Fighters because of the Bogue fighter Squardron having 1-2 more fighters depending if they has Air Supremacy.  Do this and should improve a bit.

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edited: I was wrong

Edited by Horama

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Zuiho is tough. Gets dominated by Bogue fighters rather easily. Assign you fighters as escorts. They will sacrifice themselves and remove to fighter threat long enough for your attack planes to strike. Pick your targets carefully too. That being said, Zuiho vs Bogue is a bad match. I have 52% WR in Bogue, 39% in Zuiho, even though the damage numbers are about the same. I routinely "Clear sky" in Bogue, never have in Zuiho. 

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All of the above; but also play a bunch of games in Co-op, and learn to use the controls.

Doing that means you don't have to fight two Red carriers at the same time. Especially since being a Hosho or Zuiho in Randoms and having to fight Langley's or Bogue's with half-way decent drivers (never mind sealclubber drivers,) sucks wind royally.

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1 hour ago, The_Feets said:

I picked up the Hosho to learn how to CV. It went well enough and I earned a 62% win rate.

 

Then, I stepped up to the Zuiho.

 

How does 18% w/r sound? Yeah, it sounds like you'd love to be on the opposing team. I stuffed a 10 pt capt in it but can't seem to keep planes in the air. I get dominated by enemy fighters. The last game is a perfect example. It was a 4/5 match against a Bogue. I shot down two spotters, two fighters, and 1 torp plane. In exchange, I lost 8 fighters, 7 bombers, and 1 torp plane. 1 bomber was lost to a Wyoming. The Bogue ate everything else.

 

I'd like to learn the CV play style but failing my way through it is rather disheartening. Should I ditch the IJN line and move over to the US?

Well 1st thing you did wrong was play a CV. The second thing, see #1.

Jking.

This part is a PSA for peeps: WR is subjective, as are all stats, you can have record high WR but crap every other stats by getting carried.  Or you can have record low WR by getting bad teams/sucking more then a $2 hooker. Look at your damage, kills etc, if you still have a low win rate consider that maybe you arent targeting the right things.  Aside from that people need to pause from time to time and consider what they could have done differently to win a game they lost.  Like capping sooner etc.

Stats dont lie but they never tell you the whole truth, there is to many variables for them to paint a solid picture at best you get a rough idea.  I suggest only using them for self improvement and nothing else, they can not tell you if the guy your fighting with or against will have an awesome/fail game that game.  So stick to using them to see where you are strong and where you are weak, and ignore W/R almost entirely as that is based on your entire teams effort not just yours.

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You have to be extremely careful with your planes in Zuiho. You can "force" two attacks through by sacrificing your fighter to the Bogue's (assuming that match-up, which is the most common). After that you are out of fighters and screwed. You have to be sneaky, and instead of just yolo-ing attacks through as fast as you can turn planes around, you need to look for openings to get an attack through without losing huge numbers of planes. I run a full AA build on Zuiho, but I have a dedicated captain. That really isn't something most people would spec into going up the line.

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One of the biggest things i changed was learning to use the alternative mouse control and mini map to send planes where you want them. Instead of being zoomed out on the map.

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CVs are the one class that I feel like a total noob playing .....Anyone that plays CV well is a god in my eyes, I struggle horribly above tier 6. Further,  anyone that thinks CV is easy mode, clearly hasn't played past tier 5.

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It's easier to kill DDs with cross drops. DDs win games. 

Let the bogue chase your fighters or dive bombers while you put in work with your torpedo bombers. 

Some things to think about though. When the Bogue had 2 fighter squadrons and strafing, Zuiho dominated the tier. When WG removed the ability to strafe from tier 5, Bogue still could have 2 fighter squadrons and Zuiho still dominated the tier. It took WG buffing Bogue's loadout to a 1-1-1 for Bogue to compete. 

So Bogue's ability to clear the sky has never made it competitive, only increasing it's ability to do reliable damage did that. 

Meaning that you don't beat a Bogue by contesting the sky. You beat it by doing better damage; kill DDs, start fires and floods on key enemy ships and inform your team when they repair.

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Thanks, guys.

 

I guess I should have stated that I have become rather familiar with game mechanics. Sadly, my total WR has taken a real beating since the introduction of teams that melt when you add water.

Most of the time my CV play is spent looking for scores that will do the most good. Cross dropping DDs and BBs is where I focus. Bombers either go in well before or after the torp planes hoping that I can catch them after using damage control.

I'm normally a cruiser captain like so many others out there. That's simply where  I do my best work. BBs and DDs are just behind my CA play. CV started well enough but I just can't Zuiho to save my life.

Edited by The_Feets

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5 minutes ago, The_Feets said:

Thanks, guys.

 

I guess I should have stated that I have become rather familiar with game mechanics. Sadly, my total WR has taken a real beating since the introduction of teams that melt when you add water.

Most of the time my CV play is spent looking for scores that will do the most good. Cross dropping DDs and BBs is where I focus. Bombers either go in well before or after the torp planes hoping that I can catch them after using damage control.

I'm normally a cruiser captain like so many others out there. That's simply where  I do my best work. BBs and DDs are just behind my CA play. CV started well enough but I just can't Zuiho to save my life.

You are not alone

 

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6 hours ago, The_Feets said:

I picked up the Hosho to learn how to CV. It went well enough and I earned a 62% win rate.

 

Then, I stepped up to the Zuiho.

 

How does 18% w/r sound? Yeah, it sounds like you'd love to be on the opposing team. I stuffed a 10 pt capt in it but can't seem to keep planes in the air. I get dominated by enemy fighters. The last game is a perfect example. It was a 4/5 match against a Bogue. I shot down two spotters, two fighters, and 1 torp plane. In exchange, I lost 8 fighters, 7 bombers, and 1 torp plane. 1 bomber was lost to a Wyoming. The Bogue ate everything else.

 

I'd like to learn the CV play style but failing my way through it is rather disheartening. Should I ditch the IJN line and move over to the US?

Don't be too concerned about WR% in the first set of battles, say 20 or less, of a new ship.  It's quite possible to have great performances but have such a large sack potatoes dropped on you that you will lose quite a bit at first.

 

However, Zuiho right now has it very tough in the air-to-air fight.  With the removal of strafing, you literally have zero means on whittling down enemy airplanes while preserving your own fighters.  You have to rely on "LMB" air combat, and against Bogue's very powerful fighter unit, you got big, big problems.  

 

My suggestion?  Only engage bombers with your fighters.  You try to go fighter to fighter, you will have high losses and against USN, you will badly lose that fight.  Engage the bombers and hit Bogue users where it hurts the most:  Bomber reserves.  They may wipe out your fighter unit, but early bomber losses against other Tier IV-V CVs is a YOOGE DEAL.  As you're aware, aircraft reserves are very low, so the sooner you force them to send depleted bomber units, the better off your team is.

 

The next trick with Zuiho is to use the whole map and attack ships at different parts to keep the enemy CV off balanced and guessing where you'll attack next.  If they just defend one spot with their fighter, then let them have it.  That means the rest of the map is yours to attack.

 

It is all about inflicting early bomber losses, and somehow snaking in bomber attacks without getting intercepted.

 

In addition, in the tiers you are currently at, it's quite possible to end up in 2 CV vs 2 CV matches.  If you are top tier with Zuiho in such a case, that means your side's fighter power is very weak.  It pays big time to support your teammate's fighter unit with theirs.  Hosho + Zuiho vs Bogue fighter unit is a win for you guys.  If you both pounce on Bogue's fighter then you inflict big fighter losses early on and it severely impacts how he can aggressively fly for the rest of the match.  Because your fighter unit alone against Bogue's fighter, you will lose 100% of the time.

 

You have to be careful.  You let Bogue do as he pleases with the fighter unit, they literally can get Clear Sky before having to rearm the first time around.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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18 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:


However, Zuiho right now has it very tough in the air-to-air fight.  With the removal of strafing, you literally have zero means on whittling down enemy airplanes while preserving your own fighters.  You have to rely on "LMB" air combat, and against Bogue's very powerful fighter unit, you got big, big problems. 

I find it's not all that bad playing a Zuiho against a Bogue. 5 (with AS) against 7 (or 6) is better than 4 against 6. Also, I suspect that many take Dogfighting Expert first, and leave Servicing Expert for later, so you can narrow the HP gap as well.

But yeah, always best to get some help, even if it's just waiting to jump in until your bombers are engaged.

Edited by Skpstr

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On 3/3/2018 at 8:31 AM, The_Feets said:

I picked up the Hosho to learn how to CV. It went well enough and I earned a 62% win rate.

 

Then, I stepped up to the Zuiho.

 

How does 18% w/r sound? Yeah, it sounds like you'd love to be on the opposing team. I stuffed a 10 pt capt in it but can't seem to keep planes in the air. I get dominated by enemy fighters. The last game is a perfect example. It was a 4/5 match against a Bogue. I shot down two spotters, two fighters, and 1 torp plane. In exchange, I lost 8 fighters, 7 bombers, and 1 torp plane. 1 bomber was lost to a Wyoming. The Bogue ate everything else.

 

I'd like to learn the CV play style but failing my way through it is rather disheartening. Should I ditch the IJN line and move over to the US?

As one of the earlier posters mentioned - at low tiers, the Bogue's fighter groups can overwhelm the Zuiho's if you aren't careful (having the 11 pts of Captain skills helps, but this is still true if the Bogue also has a 11-pt captain).   I found the following CV series very helpful as I learned (am still learning) to play CVs:

[ Links to Farazelleth YouTube Videos ] Fara's CV Guides - CV Configuration and Play

For those interested in CV Gameplay - this section contains links to  very detailed instructional and informational videos from the EU Unicum CV Player Farazelleth's YouTube Series Fara Carrier Guide.  This series explains tactics and strategies when playing CVs which will help you get the most out of your CV (including gameplay examples).   Farazelleth has also posted a Configure Your CV series  which covers each CV in the Tech Tree including:

  • Ship Upgrade Recommended Progression
  • Module Upgrades
  • Captains Skills
  • Overall ship playstyle and information
  • Play examples in Random Battles

The links below represent a sampler of basic CV information contained on his channel - if you find the information useful, please consider subscribing to his channel.

Fara Carrier Guides Series

What Makes a Good CV?

Introduction

IJN CVs

USN CVs

Premiums

 

(The above is a section from WOWS Enjoyment - List of Game Improvement/Mechanics Articles and Guides)

Good luck & have fun!  o7

 

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On 3/3/2018 at 11:31 AM, The_Feets said:

I picked up the Hosho to learn how to CV. It went well enough and I earned a 62% win rate.

 

Then, I stepped up to the Zuiho.

 

How does 18% w/r sound? Yeah, it sounds like you'd love to be on the opposing team. I stuffed a 10 pt capt in it but can't seem to keep planes in the air. I get dominated by enemy fighters. The last game is a perfect example. It was a 4/5 match against a Bogue. I shot down two spotters, two fighters, and 1 torp plane. In exchange, I lost 8 fighters, 7 bombers, and 1 torp plane. 1 bomber was lost to a Wyoming. The Bogue ate everything else.

 

I'd like to learn the CV play style but failing my way through it is rather disheartening. Should I ditch the IJN line and move over to the US?

Congrats on expanding and trying a new line.

Unfortunately, you have a few things going against you.

 

First off, Tier IV and V do not have manual attacks. Those were removed because of seal clubbing by more experienced players. This does make it difficult to attack and eliminate some ships, as well as being an effective removing enemy planes. As a Tier V, you can also end up in a battle with a Tier VI CV when you have 2 CVs on each team. Since the Tier VI does have the manual controls, you are at a very distinct disadvantage.

 

Also, Tier IV falls into that protective bubble, it won't see anything higher then Tier Vs. Tier V though can see Tier VIIs. Without manual aiming, you are not going to eliminate Tier VII very well. Also the AAA on those higher level ships can shred your tier V planes, also rendering you ineffective.

 

The IJN line does have the ability to select loadouts, the US line is pretty much fixed unless you have premium CVs. Also the US planes are better then the IJN planes in most cases.

 

 

23 hours ago, JToney3449 said:

Well 1st thing you did wrong was play a CV. The second thing, see #1.

damn, I was going to say that

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3 minutes ago, Lord_Slayer said:

Also, Tier IV falls into that protective bubble, it won't see anything higher then Tier Vs. Tier V though can see Tier VIIs. Without manual aiming, you are not going to eliminate Tier VII very well. Also the AAA on those higher level ships can shred your tier V planes, also rendering you ineffective.

For CVs, protective MM extends to T5, so unless divisioned, and put up against another divisioned CV, a t5 cv won't see t7. They could be put into 4 CV games against CVs with manual attacks though, and that sounds like a nightmare.

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On 3/3/2018 at 1:22 PM, JToney3449 said:

Well 1st thing you did wrong was play a CV. The second thing, see #1.

Jking.

This part is a PSA for peeps: WR is subjective, as are all stats, you can have record high WR but crap every other stats by getting carried.  Or you can have record low WR by getting bad teams/sucking more then a $2 hooker. Look at your damage, kills etc, if you still have a low win rate consider that maybe you arent targeting the right things.  Aside from that people need to pause from time to time and consider what they could have done differently to win a game they lost.  Like capping sooner etc.

Stats dont lie but they never tell you the whole truth, there is to many variables for them to paint a solid picture at best you get a rough idea.  I suggest only using them for self improvement and nothing else, they can not tell you if the guy your fighting with or against will have an awesome/fail game that game.  So stick to using them to see where you are strong and where you are weak, and ignore W/R almost entirely as that is based on your entire teams effort not just yours.

Danger Will Robenson, DANGER!

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