Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Gene_Inari

All my friends Quit as soon as they hit T5

169 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

57
[AR]
Members
219 posts
5,509 battles

I've managed to drag a handful of people into trying WoWS and the general first impression is positive. I coach them along and such and then immediately as soon as they unlock T5, the complaints roll in:

"Everything one-shots me."

"Multiple ships target me as soon as I'm spotted."

"T7 BBs can citadel my cruiser even when angled and beyond my max range."

"Too much T7."

And so on, and so on.

Some top shelf player retention strategies I see going on. Dump on new players trying to work out of the helltier hard enough that they quit or dive into their wallets to skip it entirely.

  • Cool 13
  • Funny 1
  • Boring 1
  • Bad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,412
[HINON]
[HINON]
Members
5,044 posts
6,722 battles

well, theyll have to get used to it, like everyone else has, because the 2+/- MM thing probably isnt going anywhere anytime soon

Edited by tcbaker777
  • Cool 1
  • Boring 1
  • Bad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,826
[ARRGG]
[ARRGG]
Members
5,770 posts

This is the problem with the MM and WG thinks it is OK to lose so many fresh players. 

In defence to WG you should advise your friends to take out all lines and classes to tier 4 and then use their favorite to advance to 5. That sets them up for success.

  • Cool 4
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
719
[NEUTR]
Members
2,207 posts
6,175 battles

At least they made to T5 and not quit immediately after realizing cruisers needs to hump islands. "If I want to corner poke. I'd play WarFlashesintheStorm"

Edited by NeutralState
  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
540
Members
2,059 posts
5,097 battles

Cruisers are the last class you want to bring into tier 5 MM

The battleships hold up and the DDs can preform perfectly well. Get to tier 6, for nearly all lines the jump in playability is massive. This goes for cruisers as well.

Your friends also need to learn the incredibly important lessons: position to run, and don't make yourself look like food. This is twice as important in cruisers as anything else. And tier 5 is the steepest part of the learning curve where this is what's needed.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,143 posts
3,273 battles

Have them stay at T4 until they have a lv10 cmdr. Although it will vastly increase the amount of time to get further up the Tiers AND increase the length of time to "retrain" those CMDRs later. 

The biggest challenge between T5s VS T7s is the extra module the ships gain after T6 in combination with the fact most Commanders are at least lv10+ around the start / middle of reaching and grinding a T7 ship. Most CMDRs carried forward from T1 to T5 usually are around lv6, access to the T4 Cmdr ( @ lv10) skills is a significant jump in effectiveness. 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,731
[INTEL]
Members
8,568 posts
25,660 battles

The issue isn't his friends, its that the T5 MM sucks because WG restricted the T4 MM in order to sell more high tier premiums. 

That change had an enormous negative effect on gameplay, just another signal that the devs don't play the game. Sad. But WG won't listen to player complaints, because that would be admitting that they screwed up. 

  • Cool 14
  • Boring 1
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
180
[LLMF]
Alpha Tester
1,236 posts

I didn't have to get used to it.  I pre-date the tier lock outs.  I fought T4-T6 in my T5.  I have no idea why WG changed it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
191 posts
21 minutes ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

This is the problem with the MM and WG thinks it is OK to lose so many fresh players. 

In defense to WG you should advise your friends to take out all lines and classes to tier 4 and then use their favorite to advance to 5. That sets them up for success.

^That
I bought 2 botes right off, tier8 and Tier7, after multiple humiliating defeats in both ships (probably over a hundred battles), I started going up the tech tree for one of those nations, even unlocking a CV. Then went to the other nation and found a couple i liked eventually landing on the T-22 which i really liked. I used it as my main trainer, made a lot of bad mistakes on it, but learned some.

I will however say this, which i disagree with many about, staying in the lower tier does NOT prepare you for later. You want to get good in a specific bote, you play that bote not something else that's kinda-sorta like it.
The ships change a bit each tier as does the meta itself. No ship after the t-22 is anything like it until you get to the z-46.  Nothing teaches you like experience itself. People can tell a new DD player all they want about certain mechanics (like radar) but until you find out for yourself, your still gonna make mistakes with it based on low level play. The same strats just wont work, so don't be afraid to move up when your ready, and you feel you got a handel  on what you're currently working with. Like stated above, it's good to train several nations and their ships to get a good feel of the game as well as learn all the basic mechanics. Some people will simply disagree with me cause they dont want some "potato" in their group, but the bottom line is everyone has to start somewhere. I just don't recommend the trial of fire i started with.
 

Edited by xovian
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,362
[SYN]
Members
4,543 posts
11,437 battles

The game ain't for everybody.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
692
[UDEAD]
Beta Testers
1,045 posts
10,438 battles

If we are honest, people quit stuff they aren't good at all the time.  Dieting, Exercise, going to church - people have great intentions to do things and then just find excuses to not do them once it starts to get real.

Kongo at tier 5 can up tier well, Iron Duke is very strong as well for BB play.  All the tier 5 DD's are okay at tier 6 and some at tier 7.  However all tier 5 cruisers are meat, cannon fodder, dead men walking - even to just tier 5 BB's. They should all be focusing up BB lines and learning how to destroy cruisers and avoid torps.  Then they can go learn cruiser play and know to avoid the things that make them go boom.

Or they just want to play something faster with respawn after death.

  • Cool 3
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
140
[CAPGO]
Members
524 posts
3,312 battles

wow when I was in my first tier 5 I didnt even know how much advantage those tier 7 guys had over me. 

I was reckless and aggressive. I was having lots of fun. well.. I did blow up many times though

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,377
[RLGN]
Members
8,241 posts
17,239 battles
20 minutes ago, NeutralState said:

At least they made to T5 and not quit immediately after realizing cruisers needs to hump islands. "If I want to corner poke. I'd play WarFlashesintheStorm"

...or Tanks; since so many players here in ships seem to love humping rocks/corners like they’re driving heavies or TDs in that other WH title.

T5 vs T7 huh...?

Even In losses, I’m amazed at how often I place higher on the score page with Marblehead or Emerald that many of the supposedly ‘better’ ships on my team.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
94
[SYN]
Members
334 posts
11,731 battles
11 minutes ago, 0806sung said:

wow when I was in my first tier 5 I didnt even know how much advantage those tier 7 guys had over me. 

I was reckless and aggressive. I was having lots of fun. well.. I did blow up many times though

Same.  In Omaha I'd just point my bow at a BB and torp them in the face.  Bonus points if I could use torps on both sides to torp two BBs.   That worked far too much, most likely because I didn't see anywhere near the number of T7's one sees now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
2,122 posts

I brought in 4 people and they are gone too... Some played for awhile. But you know... Not everyone likes what you do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
73
[TNG-D]
[TNG-D]
Members
348 posts
8,784 battles

Time for new friends it seems. Ones that will stick with a game that has depth and thought needed. lol

  • Bad 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,784
[SALVO]
Members
17,035 posts
17,659 battles
15 hours ago, Taichunger said:

The issue isn't his friends, its that the T5 MM sucks because WG restricted the T4 MM in order to sell more high tier premiums. 

That change had an enormous negative effect on gameplay, just another signal that the devs don't play the game. Sad. But WG won't listen to player complaints, because that would be admitting that they screwed up. 

Sorry, Tai, but I have to disagree.  I won't dump on the Gene_Inari's friends, but reality is that tier 5 cruisers CAN do well.  But if his friends are simply inexperienced and are getting too close to BB and showing too much broadside, they will get nuked.  I rarely get nuked when I play my Marblehead or Murmansk, both tier 5 cruisers, because I know what to do to limit my broadside exposure and try to not become everyone's favorite target.

16 hours ago, Gene_Inari said:

I've managed to drag a handful of people into trying WoWS and the general first impression is positive. I coach them along and such and then immediately as soon as they unlock T5, the complaints roll in:

"Everything one-shots me."

"Multiple ships target me as soon as I'm spotted."

"T7 BBs can citadel my cruiser even when angled and beyond my max range."

"Too much T7."

And so on, and so on.

Some top shelf player retention strategies I see going on. Dump on new players trying to work out of the helltier hard enough that they quit or dive into their wallets to skip it entirely.

Gene, I'm sorry, but I don't see tier 5 as a "helltier".  Like I said above, I do quite well in my tier 5 cruisers, as well as once I've played passing through tier 5.

Now, I suppose that they could push up the +/-1 tier MM tier from tier 4 to 5, meaning that tier 6 would be the first tier to see  +/-2 tier MM, but that would just cause things to stink for tier 6 instead of tier 5.

The reality is that BBs *can* citadel angled tier 5 cruisers because those tier 5 cruisers have very, very poor armor and it's probably not good enough to repel any BB grade guns that they might see.  And yes, they can do it from outside of some tier 5 cruisers' gun range.  That's life in the big city.  BB guns tend to increase with each tier, and cruiser guns never tend to keep up ... at least until they get to tier 9 when they can get that range enhancing upgrade module (for slot 6).

 

I think that there's a problem here that some players just don't get that cruisers simply aren't designed to ever truly stand up to battleships in any sort of a toe to toe gun fight.  Cruisers can only be successful against BBs if they're a LOT more cagey and outwit those BBs.  Constantly bob and weave your course.  Never ever sail in a straight course showing your broadside if you're spotted.  Try to fight from behind your BBs or at least some DDs.  Always be ready to go "guns quiet" to go dark and get concealed so that you can disengage and reposition.  And even with all that, RNG may decide to take a dump on you and land a badly aimed "miss" or 2 onto your ship. 

Cruisers are never an easy path to success.  Battleships are more newbie friendly because they can take a few hits without getting completely nuked.  And while DDs can avoid getting nuked since they don't have citadels, they tend to require more skill and experience than your average newbie player would have to succeed in.

 

Edited by Crucis
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,187
[SYN]
[SYN]
Members
6,799 posts
10,299 battles

Well, don't worry, with the old MM they'd have quit at T3 instead...

 

I think it's definitely a problem, even if you can perform at a massively disadvantaged tier this game is, a game, and if it's not enjoyable it utterly fails. Being stupendously disadvantaged by the ship and by the experience advantage of a T7 player is frequently not enjoyable.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
295
[WOLF8]
[WOLF8]
Members
2,413 posts
3,337 battles

I'm just gonna stand up and say that making fun of OP's friends for lack of trying is NOT the correct advice. None of us here, save for OP, know who OP's friends really are, and what kind of people they may be IRL. All we have is just few sentences from OP on what they said. That's not an enough basis to make fun of them for not sticking with the game. How do we really know that they didn't really try? Maybe this game isn't everyone's cup of tea? Maybe there isn't a good enough tutorials and explanations in-game to help them learn and get better? Etc, etc...

Saying stuffs like "You need to get smarter friends" is akin to insulting them after judging a book by just its cover.

  • Cool 6
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,037
Members
3,764 posts
13,992 battles
1 hour ago, tcbaker777 said:

well, theyll have to get used to it, like everyone else has, because the 2+/- MM thing probably isnt going anywhere anytime soon

It badly needs to go away or new player bleed off will continue. Situations like the OP mentioned will continue to drive new players away. Get used to it? Most people play games to have fun, and when new players get bit*h slapped and frustrated as soon as they hit tier 5 they're not going to get used to it, they're going to say "f**k this!" because they're not having fun.

WG needs to encourage new players to stick around and play the game, not pi$$ in their cornflakes.

  • Cool 6
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
2,481 posts
2,334 battles

Unfortunately the best advice I can give for getting through T5 is to treat it like you would a fighting game. The meta/play style shifts drastically when you enter T5 and its may go so fast that you may not know what went wrong. So when you get into T5, play, reflect on your mistakes and what went on in that game, and learn from it. Victory takes a back seat in this tier. 

Edited by Yoshiblue

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,343 posts
1,343 battles

Teir 5 is my favorite teir, farming Colorodos with Furutaka is fun. :3

Ez xp and credits for me!

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52
[WOLF5]
Members
275 posts
5,205 battles

Why not have your friends try co-op for a while to get used to the more difficult mechanics?  At T5, co-op bots will start to become fairly good at shooting you so it'll force you to learn how to dodge.  Thrown in a couple of T7 battleships  and you'll have a real challenge even with bots.

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,238
[PVE]
Members
5,596 posts
18,173 battles
2 hours ago, Gene_Inari said:

I've managed to drag a handful of people into trying WoWS and the general first impression is positive. I coach them along and such and then immediately as soon as they unlock T5, the complaints roll in:

"Everything one-shots me."

"Multiple ships target me as soon as I'm spotted."

"T7 BBs can citadel my cruiser even when angled and beyond my max range."

"Too much T7."

And so on, and so on.

Some top shelf player retention strategies I see going on. Dump on new players trying to work out of the helltier hard enough that they quit or dive into their wallets to skip it entirely.

The matchmaking at tier 5+ is the most often complained about issue in "I Quit" forum posts. I too managed to bring a friend into the game, one I have been playing online games with since the late 90's. We have played all sorts of games online and normally would play them until we got bored  or the game died. WoWS was the first game that one of us quit before the other. He too was tired of what he felt to be unfair advantage of +2/-2 matchmaking and quit. He did me the favor of getting a tier 6 ship and play a match with it before he left, that way he got a Texas and since I referred him, I got some goodies. 

Wargaming says this isn't an issue and they have no plans on changing matchmaking. If you check out the negative Steam reviews, the crappy matchmaking is the second most complained about issue with people who bothered to leave comments in their review. The inability to merge standard WoWS accounts with Steam accounts was at the top of the list. I know this because one of Wargaming's employees said that the negative reviews on Steam were mainly over the "Asia Flag" thing. I had been reading Steam reviews and saw that mentioned a few times, but nothing like the other complaints. So one night read every negative review about the game on Steam. The flag issue didn't make the top 5 complaint. It came in right under "You Suck", a complaint that is oddly third on the list here in the forums but always confused whether it means Wargaming sucks or the players suck. Maybe it is a combination of the two. Obviously there is suckage amongst us. 

Wargaming doesn't see a problem with MM, about half the players here in the forums don't see a problem with MM. Only the other half of forum posters and a good portion of those people who quit, do see a problem with matchmaking. 

Edited by Taylor3006
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×