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legozer

Understanding the Ognevoi

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Ognevoi is a challenge. Coming off Minsk, it's slow, has worse concealment and is a larger target. Fortunately, it has fewer guns....huh??

So, it's certainly a weird ship. Good turret rotation and rate of fire, sure, but a paltry 4 shells per volley seems to make this a guns-as-last-resort type of ship; after all, she has 10 km torpedoes! Alas, those torps are woefully slow and require some serious luck or wonderful guesswork to hit a target, especially once Oggy is spotted. Oh, and with the upgraded hull, you face a 92 second reload, which isn't so hot either.

So, it's not terribly fast, it's guns are not really much of a threat, and it's torpedoes aren't much of a primary weapon. Oh, and it has fewer HP than the T7 Minsk, which makes it not terribly durable, either. It's not a cap contester, at least not against Benson or Fletcher, and forget about taking on a Z-23 with anything better than half it's hit points left! 

So, what does the Ognevoi do? Is it just a place holder until the much better Udaloi, or does it have a role to play? Even though I'm doing fairly well with her, I'm still struggling to understand this ship and what its strengths are (its weaknesses are obvious). It seems to me that it was intended to be a middle ground between Akizuki and Z-23, and I'm wondering, why?? What a mediocre, disappointing ship!

Edited by legozer

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Ognevoi is a torpedo boat, in a line of gunboats. The reload on those quintuple launchers will be sorely missed when you get to Udaloi. 

 

She has great guns that complement her torpedoes nicely. She's meant to flood the water with tons of quick reloading torpedoes.

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4 minutes ago, Doomlock said:

Ognevoi is a torpedo boat, in a line of gunboats. The reload on those quintuple launchers will be sorely missed when you get to Udaloi. 

 

She has great guns that complement her torpedoes nicely. She's meant to flood the water with tons of quick reloading torpedoes.

 

Yeah, that's pretty much it. I guess I'm focusing too much on the other ships at its tier, esp. the Z-23, which seems to be a similar concept, but with better everything.

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I've re-spec'd it to be more of an AA boat, with an eye on the Grozovoi being an AA specialist later on. I figure with an aa-centric build, I can be a solid compliment to a kagero or Yugumo in an offensive role, and could likewise be a solid defender against air and back-line dd attacks. In fact, there are a lot of niche roles that this ship, with an aa build, can occupy.

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I have long sold the Ognevoi but have been thinking lately  about a build with TAE, AR and the stock hull with the 50ish sec reload.From some calculations I did,you can reach close to 40secs torpedo reload when on low HP.

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AR will be my next acquired skill. TAE will be a strong consideration.

 

First game with AA build, stuck close to a shiratsuyu in in a cv match. Shot down 10 planes while capping at will. Didn't do big damage, (25k) but still made an impact. The opposing Ranger gave up on trying to keep us spotted and we were able to easily defend the caps we took by pushing BBs off with frequent, numerous torpedo spreads, and we punched the Kagero and Gadja Mada off the caps with superior firepower/torpedo armament.

I'm gonna stick with this build and see how this ship does with AR and possibly TAE...

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1 hour ago, legozer said:

Ognevoi is a challenge. Coming off Minsk, it's slow, has worse concealment and is a larger target. Fortunately, it has fewer guns....huh??

So, it's certainly a weird ship. Good turret rotation and rate of fire, sure, but a paltry 4 shells per volley seems to make this a guns-as-last-resort type of ship; after all, she has 10 km torpedoes! Alas, those torps are woefully slow and require some serious luck or wonderful guesswork to hit a target, especially once Oggy is spotted. Oh, and with the upgraded hull, you face a 92 second reload, which isn't so hot either.

So, it's not terribly fast, it's guns are not really much of a threat, and it's torpedoes aren't much of a primary weapon. Oh, and it has fewer HP than the T7 Minsk, which makes it not terribly durable, either. It's not a cap contester, at least not against Benson or Fletcher, and forget about taking on a Z-23 with anything better than half it's hit points left! 

So, what does the Ognevoi do? Is it just a place holder until the much better Udaloi, or does it have a role to play? Even though I'm doing fairly well with her, I'm still struggling to understand this ship and what its strengths are (its weaknesses are obvious). It seems to me that it was intended to be a middle ground between Akizuki and Z-23, and I'm wondering, why?? What a mediocre, disappointing ship!

Are you sure you're actually reading stats correctly? You may be looking at stats of it as stock? Just to be clear on stats.

HP
Minsk: 15,100
Ognevoi: 16,100
Kiev: 16,200
Benson: 15,400
Z-23: 19,500

Ognevoi clearly has more hp than Minsk and Benson, only has 100 less than Kiev, and German DDs just have more HP in general.

As for the torpedoes, the upgraded torpedoes have a reload of 92 seconds but it is on a 2 x 5 set of torpedoes. That is 18.4 seconds per torpedo which is actually really fast. I don't think you will find another ship with a comparable reload time.

In terms of number of guns, Kiev has 6, Z-23 and B Hull Benson have 5, C Hull Benson and Ognevoi has 4. It's not as if you're that seriously outgunned at all.

And minimum detection is as follows
Minsk: 6.7 km
Ognevoi: 6.1 km
Kiev: 7.1 km
Benson: 5.8 km
Z-23: 6.2 km

The Ognevoi is actually a very capable hybrid destroyer able to influence the battlefield with its long range torpedoes and its Russian guns effective at all distances within its gun range. It may not have the speed of Kiev to speed tank but you can still use it as a long range gunboat when needed. And I contest caps all the time with the Ognevoi.

Edited by Lightninger

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18 minutes ago, legozer said:

AR will be my next acquired skill. TAE will be a strong consideration.

 

First game with AA build, stuck close to a shiratsuyu in in a cv match. Shot down 10 planes while capping at will. Didn't do big damage, (25k) but still made an impact. The opposing Ranger gave up on trying to keep us spotted and we were able to easily defend the caps we took by pushing BBs off with frequent, numerous torpedo spreads, and we punched the Kagero and Gadja Mada off the caps with superior firepower/torpedo armament.

I'm gonna stick with this build and see how this ship does with AR and possibly TAE...

If you're going to go with an AA captain build, you wouldn't want AR nor TAE. This is what I would recommend for an AA captain and easily moved up to the Grozovoi.

http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/1100000000000001000010000000110119

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21 minutes ago, Lightninger said:

Are you sure you're actually reading stats correctly? You may be looking at stats of it as stock? Just to be clear on stats.

HP
Minsk: 15,100
Ognevoi: 16,100
Kiev: 16,200
Benson: 15,400
Z-23: 19,500

Ognevoi clearly has more hp than Minsk and Benson, only has 100 less than Kiev, and German DDs just have more HP in general.

As for the torpedoes, the upgraded torpedoes have a reload of 92 seconds but it is on a 2 x 5 set of torpedoes. That is 18.4 seconds per torpedo which is actually really fast. I don't think you will find another ship with a comparable reload time.

In terms of number of guns, Kiev has 6, Z-23 and B Hull Benson have 5, C Hull Benson and Ognevoi has 4. It's not as if you're that seriously outgunned at all.

And minimum detection is as follows
Minsk: 6.7 km
Ognevoi: 6.1 km
Kiev: 7.1 km
Benson: 5.8 km
Z-23: 6.2 km

The Ognevoi is actually a very capable hybrid destroyer able to influence the battlefield with its long range torpedoes and its Russian guns effective at all distances within its gun range. It may not have the speed of Kiev to speed tank but you can still use it as a long range gunboat when needed. And I contest caps all the time with the Ognevoi.

 

You're right, I was looking stock, not upgraded. Thanks.

As for outgunned, I don't mean to focus on the number of guns. It's got solid guns, to be sure. In terms of contesting caps vs. Benson/Fletcher, it can't compete with the ROF, and the Z-23 seems built to contest caps, with its HP pool and very powerful guns (not to mention the fact that it can see through smoke...).

The point I was really getting at, is that it seems like Ognevoi is just a middling ship with no defined purpose, as opposed to its counterparts. The range on the torpedoes is good (as are the detection on those lazy little pigs) and, once you get used to them, they can be fairly effective. I guess what I'm driving at is that the Oggy is fairly effective at a bunch of things, but that's really all she's got. Kiev can outgun her counterparts (at range) and can mosey along at Mach-2, Z-23 has all of the characteristics that define Ognevoi, only they're all better save for aa, and Benson good at literally everything. Like I said, it just feels like a middle ground between Akatsuki (torpedo boat with solid guns) and Z-23 (bully boat with solid guns and torpedoes).

And don't get me wrong, I don't think Ognevoi is BAD, it just strikes me as really mediocre. That's why I'm exploring the AA build, to give it a more defined role and to exploit a niche, which it appears you did as well.

Also, that build suggestion makes a lot of sense. I was going to skip CE, but I think I will really want that with Udaloi. Right now, I feel like I wasted 2 points on EM (although I'm skipping PT) right now I'm PM, EM, LS, BFT, AFT. Will likely scrap EM and eye up MFC and CE later on, adding PT with my 19th point.

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9 minutes ago, legozer said:

 

You're right, I was looking stock, not upgraded. Thanks.

As for outgunned, I don't mean to focus on the number of guns. It's got solid guns, to be sure. In terms of contesting caps vs. Benson/Fletcher, it can't compete with the ROF, and the Z-23 seems built to contest caps, with its HP pool and very powerful guns (not to mention the fact that it can see through smoke...).

The point I was really getting at, is that it seems like Ognevoi is just a middling ship with no defined purpose, as opposed to its counterparts. The range on the torpedoes is good (as are the detection on those lazy little pigs) and, once you get used to them, they can be fairly effective. I guess what I'm driving at is that the Oggy is fairly effective at a bunch of things, but that's really all she's got. Kiev can outgun her counterparts (at range) and can mosey along at Mach-2, Z-23 has all of the characteristics that define Ognevoi, only they're all better save for aa, and Benson good at literally everything. Like I said, it just feels like a middle ground between Akatsuki (torpedo boat with solid guns) and Z-23 (bully boat with solid guns and torpedoes).

And don't get me wrong, I don't think Ognevoi is BAD, it just strikes me as really mediocre. That's why I'm exploring the AA build, to give it a more defined role and to exploit a niche, which it appears you did as well.

Also, that build suggestion makes a lot of sense. I was going to skip CE, but I think I will really want that with Udaloi. Right now, I feel like I wasted 2 points on EM (although I'm skipping PT) right now I'm PM, EM, LS, BFT, AFT. Will likely scrap EM and eye up MFC and CE later on, adding PT with my 19th point.

Taking BFT helps in compete with the ROF department but remember when knife fighting accuracy and landing hits is the most important. It's not hard to dodge incoming shots from the opponent if you are actively using your rudder and dodging. And the order of skills I took is as follows:

PM -> LS -> BFT -> AFT -> CE

Going for AA build means you would follow with MFCAA -> PT

I also have general gunboat build which would end with SE -> AR

The real question on whether to take EM depends on which ship in the line you're using. Storozhevoi, Derzki, Izyaslav, Gnevy, Minsk, Tashkent (assuming you take MBM 3) need EM. Ognevoi, Kiev, Udaloi, Khabarovsk, and Grozovoi do not need it. I'm still not completely certain whether I want EM on Podvoisky or not. If the ship does need EM, it would replace AR in the gunboat build and I take it between LS and BFT.

Edited by Lightninger

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