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Octavian on MM improvements, CV rework and rendering issue

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What's that stuff about AP vs DD's about? I didn't think we'd heard a thing about the how?

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"World of Warships is really not a game for battleships alone, and we are really against that this class does not bother switching at all shells depending on the target class, tearing off a quarter or a third of the hp from the destroyer with one successfully fired shell."

Reason they don't "bother" switching shells is the eternal reload that a BB has.  In the time it takes to reload, a DD will just stealth up and disappear.  Reason the BB's fire AP at DD's is because it's what they have loaded.  So if WG does nerf BB AP like this, it will just encourage more and more HE slinging from BB's.  There's more than enough of that as it is.  

And does this mean they'll nerf the ability of BB's to take half (or more) of the health of cruisers in one volley as well?  If not, this is just a straight up DD buff.  Might be okay as I'm trying to get better at DD play.  But whenever I play DD's I get rekt far more often by cruisers than by BB's.  

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20 minutes ago, ZARDOZ_II said:

"World of Warships is really not a game for battleships alone, and we are really against that this class does not bother switching at all shells depending on the target class, tearing off a quarter or a third of the hp from the destroyer with one successfully fired shell."

Reason they don't "bother" switching shells is the eternal reload that a BB has.  In the time it takes to reload, a DD will just stealth up and disappear.  Reason the BB's fire AP at DD's is because it's what they have loaded.  So if WG does nerf BB AP like this, it will just encourage more and more HE slinging from BB's.  There's more than enough of that as it is.  

And does this mean they'll nerf the ability of BB's to take half (or more) of the health of cruisers in one volley as well?  If not, this is just a straight up DD buff.  Might be okay as I'm trying to get better at DD play.  But whenever I play DD's I get rekt far more often by cruisers than by BB's.  

Well you know they could have done the common sense change and just nerfed BB sigma across the board by a significant amount (nerf BBs from all tiers and nations by same flat %). Which would make DDs taking less full pens and cruisers getting less dev striked from long range because well..... you know.... the highest EHP (see tank in gaming) class with highest ability to brawl as well.... shouldn't also have the characteristics of a burst damage sniper like they do now.... (name a single game with that combo Ill wait)

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If all BB players start to only sling HE, then WG gets what they have been working towards since CBT :Smile_ohmy: Bring back DD citadels and let the monkeys moan more. :Smile_teethhappy:

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31 minutes ago, Carl said:

What's that stuff about AP vs DD's about? I didn't think we'd heard a thing about the how?

I think that DDs were getting blapped by AP rounds and they were not happy. If you shoot a DD broadside with AP you get lots of overpens. If you hit one in the snout or tail, you do significant damage. I think the theory was that the round just went down the length of the ship causing lots of damage. Have seen a few threads on this recently.

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38 minutes ago, ZARDOZ_II said:

"World of Warships is really not a game for battleships alone, and we are really against that this class does not bother switching at all shells depending on the target class, tearing off a quarter or a third of the hp from the destroyer with one successfully fired shell."

Reason they don't "bother" switching shells is the eternal reload that a BB has.  In the time it takes to reload, a DD will just stealth up and disappear.  Reason the BB's fire AP at DD's is because it's what they have loaded.  So if WG does nerf BB AP like this, it will just encourage more and more HE slinging from BB's.  There's more than enough of that as it is.  

And does this mean they'll nerf the ability of BB's to take half (or more) of the health of cruisers in one volley as well?  If not, this is just a straight up DD buff.  Might be okay as I'm trying to get better at DD play.  But whenever I play DD's I get rekt far more often by cruisers than by BB's.  

I took it this was as well. It sounds like Sub_Octavian doesn't even play battleships. 

Sure, in an ideal world I would LIKE to fire HE at destroyers most of the time. But I typically get only the briefest window to inflict damage before the cloaking device kicks in and I am eating another salvo. Why are people interpreting this as a straight-up destroyer buff? BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT IT IS.

Why do so many changes that WG institutes lately seem to be directly intended to discourage battleships from doing more than fretfully sniping?

Edited by Battlecruiser_Lutzow
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20 minutes ago, MorbidGamer said:

What a joke... So much for any hope of playing my T8's again. I'm tired of seeing non-stop T10 games in them.

I wonder when they will realize that T8s will be a better sell, if they adjust the MM.

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16 hours ago, Battlecruiser_Lutzow said:

I took it this was as well. It sounds like Sub_Octavian doesn't even play battleships. 

Sure, in an ideal world I would LIKE to fire HE at destroyers most of the time. But I typically get only the briefest window to inflict damage before the cloaking device kicks in and I am eating another salvo. Why are people interpreting this as a straight-up destroyer buff? BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT IT IS.

Why do do many changes that WG institutes lately seem to be directly intended to discourage battleships from doing more than fretfully sniping?

I think my glasses need cleaning. I could have sworn you wrote that DDs are getting a buff vs BBs. But -- haha! -- that's impossible. 

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So the DD cry babies are finally getting their buff vs BB. Think BB don't push now just wait until it is even harder to defend against DD. Swap she'll types for target type with 30 second reloads. What a f'ing joke. DD have so many advantages vs BB why the ONE thing BB have to defend themselves with needs a nerf baffles me. Hope DD wall o torps, stealth, HE Spam, etc... gets nerfed too. Just ridiculous. Guess if you cry long enough they will give in.

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16 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

I think that DDs were getting blapped by AP rounds and they were not happy. If you shoot a DD broadside with AP you get lots of overpens. If you hit one in the snout or tail, you do significant damage. I think the theory was that the round just went down the length of the ship causing lots of damage. Have seen a few threads on this recently.

Add in the health pools.  I mean if you hit a New Mexico with 48k health and do 7k damage in overpens, well it's not a HUGE deal for the New Mexico.  But if you hit those 7k overpens on a Nicholas which has 13k HP...  Well the DD is in for a bad day.  Personally I'd love to fire more HE at a DD.  I like wrecking modules because it might make it easier for the team to deal with the DD while my guns reload because I doubt I'll get a second shot off.  But the long reload makes it counter productive.  Unload AP and Switch to HE?  Chances are he's gone before the reload is even done and now I've got HE loaded for my other targets.  Rather just take the AP snap shot and let the shells land where they land when I can. 

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18 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

I think my glasses need cleaning. I could have sworn you wrote that DDs are getting a buff vs BBs. But -- haha! -- that's impossible. 

Why do destroyers require a buff vs. battleships, pray tell?

If any ship type needs some kind of a buff, it's cruisers. I, for one, am tired of seeing games like this. And yet that's becoming more and more the norm. 

J8aPRvr.jpg

Destroyers are incredibly strong as it stands. And now? Now they'll be fighting alone in the caps. That's AWESOME for the health of the game. Can't wait. Mmmmm!

Edited by Battlecruiser_Lutzow

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I like how the solution to carriers so far is to just remove more and more player influence on how they perform ingame.

 

Do they want people playing them, or not?

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6 minutes ago, Battlecruiser_Lutzow said:

I took it this was as well. It sounds like Sub_Octavian doesn't even play battleships.....

Just now, AdmiralThunder said:

So the DD cry babies are finally getting their buff vs BB. Think BB don't push now just wait until it is even harder to defend against DD. Swap she'll types for target type with 30 second reloads. What a f'ing joke. DD have so many advantages vs BB why the ONE thing BB have to defend themselves with needs a nerf baffles me. Hope DD wall o torps, stealth, HE Spam, etc... gets nerfed too. Just ridiculous. Guess if you cry long enough they will give in.

The AP issue isn't just about DDs, although they were the ones that are impacted the most.  One problem is that AP rounds can double dip, meaning one shell can score an overpen and a pen.  The next is a balance issue with BBs only needing to load AP.  The changing of shells types is a balancing mechanic.  BBs were immune to that balancing, one could argue that isn't fair.  

Let's be clear, if AP pens were removed from DDs that would be a small buff since pens were fairly rare.  Also, AP overpens will still work, you just won't get your occasional AP pen anymore.

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Thanks for posting!

 

Happy about the BB AP vrs DDs, but I was really hopeful for a +2/-2 change.

Heck, if they could at least help to not be bottom tier 90% of the time, it would be an improvement.

 

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Just now, Slimeball91 said:

The AP issue isn't just about DDs, although they were the ones that are impacted the most.  One problem is that AP rounds can double dip, meaning one shell can score an overpen and a pen.  The next is a balance issue with BBs only needing to load AP.  The changing of shells types is a balancing mechanic.  BBs were immune to that balancing, one could argue that isn't fair.  

Let's be clear, if AP pens were removed from DDs that would be a small buff since pens were fairly rare.  Also, AP overpens will still work, you just won't get your occasional AP pen anymore.

Then they need to reduce reload times or significantly alter DD stealth. 

I shouldn't be penalized as a battleship for shooting AP at things - that's what I am, generally speaking, supposed to be doing. Other classes get to spend virtually their entire game slinging one shell type - why are battleships expected to juggle (and then pay the highest price for doing so)?

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1 hour ago, ZARDOZ_II said:

"World of Warships is really not a game for battleships alone, and we are really against that this class does not bother switching at all shells depending on the target class, tearing off a quarter or a third of the hp from the destroyer with one successfully fired shell."

Reason they don't "bother" switching shells is the eternal reload that a BB has.  In the time it takes to reload, a DD will just stealth up and disappear.  Reason the BB's fire AP at DD's is because it's what they have loaded.  So if WG does nerf BB AP like this, it will just encourage more and more HE slinging from BB's.  There's more than enough of that as it is.  

And does this mean they'll nerf the ability of BB's to take half (or more) of the health of cruisers in one volley as well?  If not, this is just a straight up DD buff.  Might be okay as I'm trying to get better at DD play.  But whenever I play DD's I get rekt far more often by cruisers than by BB's.  

Just going to comment from my experience at higher tiers in a DD and a BB. 

 

As a DD, the no 1 thing I fear the most are AP volleys.  Even in clan wars, you see it all the time the BB can almost 1 shot a DD with a well placed AP volley. 

As a BB, I dont care about switching to HE especially when facing higher tier DD's.  AP does much more reliable damage and gives me the opportunity to possibly 1 shot the target quickly and swiftly . 

 

I welcome this change, its about time they addressed AP power against DD's  from BB's. 

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5 minutes ago, Cobraclutch said:

Just going to comment from my experience at higher tiers in a DD and a BB. 

 

As a DD, the no 1 thing I fear the most are AP volleys.  Even in clan wars, you see it all the time the BB can almost 1 shot a DD with a well placed AP volley. 

As a BB, I dont care about switching to HE especially when facing higher tier DD's.  AP does much more reliable damage and gives me the opportunity to possibly 1 shot the target quickly and swiftly . 

 

I welcome this change, its about time they addressed AP power against DD's  from BB's. 

Because eating a full salvo of AP shells wouldn't kill a destroyer. That's imbalanced. No question as to why the destroyer was in a position to be blapped in the first place, no accountability for what this will do to battleships as a whole when shooting other ship types; no discussion of the OVERALL DPS reduction it will result in for BBs. Nope. Destroyers whined, so it got changed. What a JOKE.

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Just now, Battlecruiser_Lutzow said:

Then they need to reduce reload times or significantly alter DD stealth. 

I shouldn't be penalized as a battleship for shooting AP at things - that's what I am, generally speaking, supposed to be doing. Other classes get to spend virtually their entire game slinging one shell type - why are battleships expected to juggle (and then pay the highest price for doing so)?

You don't have to switch, you still have overpens.  Overpens account for 90-95% of your damage to DDs.  You will only loose 5-10% of your "DD damage" with AP only shooting.  That is a very small nerf to you/buff to DDs.   

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1 hour ago, Taylor3006 said:

I think that DDs were getting blapped by AP rounds and they were not happy. If you shoot a DD broadside with AP you get lots of overpens. If you hit one in the snout or tail, you do significant damage. I think the theory was that the round just went down the length of the ship causing lots of damage. Have seen a few threads on this recently.

 

I'm aware of that, WG;ing stated months ago they were working on a solution to this. What i'm not aware of is any details on how they're going to do this, Sub Octavian seems to be reference some thread reaction to the "how they're going to do it" aspect.

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Remember, BB AP was a nerf to DDs first and foremost. Before, HE was the go to for BB on DD action.

Right now, it's common to see a BB knock off even half health at 15km+.

What's the point of having Cruisers if BB's can do the job themselves? :Smile_teethhappy:

Edited by Wulfgarn
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18 minutes ago, Battlecruiser_Lutzow said:

Because eating a full salvo of AP shells wouldn't kill a destroyer. That's imbalanced. No question as to why the destroyer was in a position to be blapped in the first place, no accountability for what this will do to battleships as a whole when shooting other ship types; no discussion of the OVERALL DPS reduction it will result in for BBs. Nope. Destroyers whined, so it got changed. What a JOKE.

And the same argument holds true to a torpedo hit on a higher tier BB. 

Normally 1-3 torpedo hits would disable any ship. But in this game you have ships that barely go below 75% health and can heal back with almost no lasting effects.  So please stop with the "AP shells wouldn't kill a destroyer" rhetoric. 

This is a game and DD's are supposed to counter BB's. So why is it a BB can take 1 torpedo hit for less damage then a DD can take 1 AP pen? That is imbalanced. 

The bottom line is BB captains have the luxury of never needing to switch from AP.  I do it in  my NC all the time I 1 salvo'ed a khab with my 2 front guns who was rushing me with ease.  I knock off 50-75% of a DD's health from 15km away with a well placed AP volley that took almost no skill to achieve. 

Clearly the dev's see this in their internal stats. Thats not destroyers whining, that is a class of ships that has been pandered to for a long time that is finally having its "Counter all ships with AP" reigned in a bit. 

I always find it laughable how easy it is to counter DD's as a battleship. Its actually very simple and easy. I had no issue's throwing my Tirpitz, Sharn, NC, warspite against 2-3 DD's at a time and come out ontop with ease.  All while firing AP... Doesn't matter if its a Tier 6-7-8-9-10 DD. They all melt to AP.

God forbid the devs actually make it a little more challenging for the counter of a class to actually be that, a counter. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Cobraclutch said:

And the same argument holds true to a torpedo hit on a higher tier BB. 

Normally 1-3 torpedo hits would disable any ship. But in this game you have ships that barely go below 75% health and can heal back with almost no lasting effects.  So please stop with the "AP shells wouldn't kill a destroyer" rhetoric. 

Many destroyers and cruisers never switch shell types, and when they do, the penalty is far reduced. All battleships have is the freaking alpha - they aren't DPS queens. We get one shot, and we can either take it, or swap shells for 30 seconds while the destroyer flits away into the ethereum. I shouldn't be obliged to make that choice. 

Edited by Battlecruiser_Lutzow
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