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verkhne

USS Indianopolis and US cruiser line changes

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The ROF is just fine,at the tier you don't need to be spamming the same speed as 155s ect... You can pen the bow of basically any other cruiser in your range, and if a cruiser goes broadside (even at 16.5km) you can still hit it for 20k dmg in my experience. Its a vastly different play-style than that of the Cleveland, and you must respect that AP (I only fire HE at BBs and DDs).  

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14 hours ago, verkhne said:

So with the Upcoming cruiser line changes is anything going to happen to this ship? It is already a sort of Pensacola/New Orleans hybrid. Does the downtiering of the other US cruisers not suggest this ship should be downtiered or perhaps buffed? You could argue that it is already balanced for it's tier 7 position but the downtiering by WG of the rest of the US heavy cruisers argues that they are in fact underpowered. So will Indianopolis remain unchanged or get some buffs?

Premium ships have nothing to do with the credit lines in the game, all seperate.

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2 hours ago, Madwolf05 said:

The Indy needs a RoF boost and Radar duration extended.

Both have been buffed before and literalpy changed nothing. The RoF boost was basically just insulting and the Radar duration didn't affect her at all.

This is my feeling as well. Her guns fire too slowly and unlike every other non-American cruiser she has no torps to back the guns up. I can live with the radar as-is, but I also think her concealment needs to be dropped a bit to bring her concealment (with full concealment build) down to her radar range. I have no idea why Myoko has a better concealment when she is a much bigger ship and Myoko has a faster rate of fire even though she has more guns and torpedoes to back those guns up. Her radar is quite nice, but the short duration coupled with her slow ROF and the fact that she can be seen outside of her own radar range makes it very hard to use it effectively. That sucks because Indy is most USN players' first experience with radar, but its on a ship that has a hard time using it.

Indy is one of my favorite ships to play. She has a huge array of tools, but they don't mesh well together without work. She could really use a ROF reduction of a second or 2 to give some grace period while the radar is going to actually find the target and get 2 salvos off, and a detection reduction of 1km or so, so she can't be so easily spotted outside of her own radar range. That would make her a better team support cruiser and easier for the average player to play. I have no idea why people keep complaining about her agility. Only Fiji and Pensacola are better and they aren't that much better. She is way more agile than Myoko or Shchors. 

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2 hours ago, Zarenno said:

The ROF is just fine,at the tier you don't need to be spamming the same speed as 155s ect... You can pen the bow of basically any other cruiser in your range, and if a cruiser goes broadside (even at 16.5km) you can still hit it for 20k dmg in my experience. Its a vastly different play-style than that of the Cleveland, and you must respect that AP (I only fire HE at BBs and DDs).  

Odd that you should point that out:

Out of 22 current Tier 6 and 7 Cruisers:

In AP per minute: Indianapolis stands at 19th best out of 22 Cruisers.

In HE per minute: Indianapolis stands at tied at 18 out of 20 Cruisers with HE.

All of the ships bellow Indianapolis have torpedoes in both cases. In terms of not havong HE, both ships have torpedoes.

Out of ships that carry Radar Indianapolis is over 200,000 AP damage behind the closest ship, and over 100,000 in terms of HE. One has torpedoes, both have better AA.

Out of the ships that she has better AP than, 1 has the same AP angle buff, 1 has much larger calibre, and the all 3 have torpedoes.

Out of the ships she has better HE than, the 1 she's tied with has better fire chance, and the one she's better than has much better fire chance and is a larger calibre.

In reality, over a 2 week period she beats the Pensacola in average damage, Aoba, Duca D'Aosta, La Galissonniere, Nurnburg, Cleveland, Leander, and  De Grasse.

In terms of survival rate she beats La Galissonniere, Nurnberg, Duca D'Aosta, Aobs, and De Grasse. Being tied with Moltov, Budyonny, and Pensacola.

There is a clear link between DPM and Survival rate in terms of a ships ability, both of which Indianapolis lacks. She is nothing more than a Tier 6.5 ship at best and her win rate is inflated by being protected by Tier 7s ideal MM balance.

Moving Indianapolis' reload rate to 12 secs would not only marginally shift her effective DPM to 12 of 22 in AP, and 12 of 22 in regards to HE, it would represent the median reload rate of the 203mm USN CA guns in terms of actual combat performance which rated as low as 10 seconds per shot in actual combat. This would at least make up for not having torpedoes, while not infringing on any Tier 7 CL by a long shot.

It would be nice to see her rudder shift not be worse than the Pensacola to help her survive.

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It is a premium so it won't be touched which is the general rule WG usually applies to premiums.

Prime Example.   Warspite.  She has been around since closed beta and received exactly zero changes even when its sister ship, the Queen Elizabeth got the RN HE shells. 

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19 minutes ago, Midnitewolf said:

It is a premium so it won't be touched which is the general rule WG usually applies to premiums.

Prime Example.   Warspite.  She has been around since closed beta and received exactly zero changes even when its sister ship, the Queen Elizabeth got the RN HE shells. 

While most of that is true, she did in fact get her citadel lowered long before Flamu was credited with Big_Spud's incresible investment into the correctiom of the Tier 9+ USN BB Citadels.

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On 2/26/2018 at 10:12 PM, grumpymunky said:

No buffs, but they're giving it a cool new premium camo...

image.jpeg.7192634016c37a3e2f1a728a49aff050.jpeg

I wanted this one.

 

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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18 hours ago, Sovereigndawg said:

I like where you are going with this. Maybe a little reload boost.

A reload buff would be nice.  With the USN cruiser split I could easily see the Indy being further power creeped into even deeper obscurity.  The current reload for: Indy, Pensacola & Myoko appear to be holdovers from the original days of WoWs.  The more recent 8-inch cruisers (Yorck & Algerie) have reload rates of 12seconds vs. the old American\Japanese T7 cruisers with reloads of 14 to 15 seconds.   Put Indy at 12-seconds to put it on par with the newer cruiser tech trees.

The gun range is also arguable something that's resulted in American and Japanese 8-inch cruisers being "power-creeped".  Pensacola is only 15.7km -- Indy is a bit better at 16.9km -- Myoko is only 15.6km.  Conversely the newer 8-inch cruiser lines are 17.3km and 17.9km respectively for the Yorck and ALgerie.        

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47 minutes ago, Dr_Dirt said:

A reload buff would be nice.  With the USN cruiser split I could easily see the Indy being further power creeped into even deeper obscurity.  The current reload for: Indy, Pensacola & Myoko appear to be holdovers from the original days of WoWs.  The more recent 8-inch cruisers (Yorck & Algerie) have reload rates of 12seconds vs. the old American\Japanese T7 cruisers with reloads of 14 to 15 seconds.   Put Indy at 12-seconds to put it on par with the newer cruiser tech trees.

The gun range is also arguable something that's resulted in American and Japanese 8-inch cruisers being "power-creeped".  Pensacola is only 15.7km -- Indy is a bit better at 16.9km -- Myoko is only 15.6km.  Conversely the newer 8-inch cruiser lines are 17.3km and 17.9km respectively for the Yorck and ALgerie.        

This is my feeling exactly. The slow-loading Japanese and American CAs are holdovers. Myoko is passable due to the number of guns and torpedoes, but the American CAs have nothing but their guns. Indy wasn't there with the original game but she inherited the slow-loading guns and still has them even though most of the others had their ROFs buffed a bit. (She got a less than 1s buff as I recall). 

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45 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

This is my feeling exactly. The slow-loading Japanese and American CAs are holdovers. Myoko is passable due to the number of guns and torpedoes, but the American CAs have nothing but their guns. Indy wasn't there with the original game but she inherited the slow-loading guns and still has them even though most of the others had their ROFs buffed a bit. (She got a less than 1s buff as I recall). 

yeah -- I also think the armor schemes on both the Yorck & Algerie are superior to the old 8-inch cruiser lines.  I always cringe when I see incoming when driving an Indy, Pepsi or Myoko as all three are citadel pen magnets.  Conversely I've feel like Yorck and Algerie are considerably less squishy.  I keep hearing about the Algerie is really squishy -- but my experience with French cruisers is that the spaced armor schemes help considerably with their protection.   

Anywhoo...yeah...the per shell DMG is also in favor of the newer 8-inch cruisers.  And the per ship broadside DPM is also clearly favoring the new 8-inch cruiser lines:

Max potential DMG For AP:

Pepsi: 4500 -- DPM = 10guns X 4500dmg X 60/15 Rnds/Min =  180000 DMG/Min

INdy: 4600 -- DPM = 9 x 4600 x 60/14.3 = 173706 DPM

Yorck: 5500 = 8 x 5500 x 60/12 = 220000 DPM

Algerie: 4800 = 9 x 4800 x 60/12 = 216000 DPM

Myoko: 4700 = 10 x 4700 x 60/14 = 201428 DPM

Indy DPM is lower than Yorck and Algerie by a bit over 20%

Yeah -- Indy gets radar.  But Yorck has access to pretty good hydro.  Cant recall if ALgerie also has hydor as well.  

 

 

Edited by Dr_Dirt

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1 hour ago, Dr_Dirt said:

A reload buff would be nice.  With the USN cruiser split I could easily see the Indy being further power creeped into even deeper obscurity.  The current reload for: Indy, Pensacola & Myoko appear to be holdovers from the original days of WoWs.  The more recent 8-inch cruisers (Yorck & Algerie) have reload rates of 12seconds vs. the old American\Japanese T7 cruisers with reloads of 14 to 15 seconds.   Put Indy at 12-seconds to put it on par with the newer cruiser tech trees.

The gun range is also arguable something that's resulted in American and Japanese 8-inch cruisers being "power-creeped".  Pensacola is only 15.7km -- Indy is a bit better at 16.9km -- Myoko is only 15.6km.  Conversely the newer 8-inch cruiser lines are 17.3km and 17.9km respectively for the Yorck and ALgerie.        

Yes the old range is also pretty noticable after playing other lines. Many ships aren't all that wonderful in terms of survival ability at Tier 6 and 7, but their extra range means they don't have to take the same level of risk.

The Algerie is actually a good bote because of her range, and for some reason better DPM than the two USN CAs, despite having pretty decent torpedoes. Her black hole armor also does a great job protecting her from citadel hits. I have a Premium Camo on her.

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14 minutes ago, Madwolf05 said:

Yes the old range is also pretty noticable after playing other lines. Many ships aren't all that wonderful in terms of survival ability at Tier 6 and 7, but their extra range means they don't have to take the same level of risk.

The Algerie is actually a good bote because of her range, and for some reason better DPM than the two USN CAs, despite having pretty decent torpedoes. Her black hole armor also does a great job protecting her from citadel hits. I have a Premium Camo on her.

yeah -- I kinda like the French Cruisers.  The Algerie speed + speed boost also is a important factor in her survive-ability.  Speed combined with the ability to standoff at further distance while firing all add to the discrepancy (power creep) between it and the old USN 8-inch cruisers.      

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