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Herr_Reitz

Gaede 19 point commander build - your build?

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So last free re-spec i reset my 19pt Gaede commander. I pulled him from a BB earlier in the line for strict DD'ing. 

I'd like your suggested commander skill build for the Gaede, as I haven't played the Gaede since reaching it (more or less). I've searched the forum but mostly find people are slamming the ship. I'm at least 40K away from the Maass.

Should I just save the commander for the Maass and free xp through the Gaede? Or do you have a strong skill build for the commander that will make playing the Gaede some fun? tiafyc

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This is my Z-46 captain, but I would use an identical build on the Gaede.  Also note I do not recommend the 150s, I consider them to be an inferior gun option for the German DDs.  Also, if you want more gun focus, you can switch TAE for BFT, which will buff the 128s but do nothing for the 150s.  You can use this captain build all the way to the top of the line.  Experiment with switching between BFT/TAE when you get to Tier 9/10 and get access to the gun or torpedo reload module, the German DDs are outstanding hybrids and you can go 50/50 guns and torps with a lot of good combinations that few other DDs get to take advantage of like the Germans do.

6cb3c9ad7311b1f155f5318f67efa6c8.png

 

And here are my credentials, so you know I ain't BSing you:

067c3b9e64dc5a82c16eb8d8acda69c2.png

Edited by JochenHeiden
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6 hours ago, JochenHeiden said:

This is my Z-46 captain, but I would use an identical build on the Gaede.  Also note I do not recommend the 150s, I consider them to be an inferior gun option for the German DDs. 

To each their own, but I've used the 150's for nearly 150 PVP matches and a number of ranked matches with great success.  Yes, slow reload can be annoying, but they hit hard and can cit some cruisers in their MM spread.  

If nothing else, those interested in Gaede should at least try them out.

:Smile_honoring:

B

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Bleh, wrong topic, disregard.

Edited by xovian

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6 hours ago, JochenHeiden said:

This is my Z-46 captain, but I would use an identical build on the Gaede.  Also note I do not recommend the 150s, I consider them to be an inferior gun option for the German DDs.  Also, if you want more gun focus, you can switch TAE for BFT, which will buff the 128s but do nothing for the 150s.  You can use this captain build all the way to the top of the line.  Experiment with switching between BFT/TAE when you get to Tier 9/10 and get access to the gun or torpedo reload module, the German DDs are outstanding hybrids and you can go 50/50 guns and torps with a lot of good combinations that few other DDs get to take advantage of like the Germans do.

6cb3c9ad7311b1f155f5318f67efa6c8.png

 

And here are my credentials, so you know I ain't BSing you:

067c3b9e64dc5a82c16eb8d8acda69c2.png

Thanks for posting. Earlier it was suggested I go look at http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc (thanks @Sovereigndawg) so I did. The top cmdr skill set for the Gaede (with 9 total votes wow) was almost identical to yours, except it utilized DE instead of the extra hit points. I currently have the 150's... may flop back to the 128's... will see how it goes this way. 

Now all I have to do is figure out how to play a DD with a 6.6 conceal! I guess a lot like my RU dds eh? 

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4 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Thanks for posting. Earlier it was suggested I go look at http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc (thanks @Sovereigndawg) so I did. The top cmdr skill set for the Gaede (with 9 total votes wow) was almost identical to yours, except it utilized DE instead of the extra hit points. I currently have the 150's... may flop back to the 128's... will see how it goes this way. 

Now all I have to do is figure out how to play a DD with a 6.6 conceal! I guess a lot like my RU dds eh? 

Play Gaede as a PURE torp boat with guns for self defense.  The hydro range is too short for you to go into caps brawling like the Z-46 and Z-52 can, so use it as a defensive weapon only.  The Maass is a much better offensive ship than the Gaede, hence why I want you to run a 128mm build as the Maass has 5 of those guns which can benefit from BFT.  DE is a waste, in my opinion, on German DDs because I am rarely firing HE out of those guns.  The AP is just so devastating to everything, including other destroyers, that firing HE is something I only do angled targets.  I could go on and on about the benefits of 128s over the 150s....

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3 hours ago, JochenHeiden said:

DE is a waste, in my opinion, on German DDs because I am rarely firing HE out of those guns.  The AP is just so devastating to everything, including other destroyers, that firing HE is something I only do angled targets.  I could go on and on about the benefits of 128s over the 150s....

Call me noob, but i dont see it with AP, in fact i see just the opposite (see below: AP/HE/ HE+IFHE), look at the ratios of pen vs other:

image.thumb.png.cc9810ba67a4e697fe686fdbaa796e1a.png

 

While both the Z-46 and Z-52 have good damage capability with AP shells, I almost never get the most out of them. Almost half ricochet, which means no damage.
Every time i try this test as far as just using one or the other, just to see the overall affect, it always ends up the same.
Frankly i will admit, I am not spaz enough to constantly switch weapons unless a full broadside is presented which is rare (and typically only other DD for a brief time) outside of co-op.
 

Personally i have found HE to be more consistent with the 128guns. So i tend to stick with them myself.
As to the IFHE, not sure if this skill really helps or not, I've noted no one ever takes it for a Z-46 or z-52 build.
The above would seem to confirm it isn't needed, but I've never seen any data on it.

As to DE, I pass on it myself, better things to grab than a mere 2% to fire. German DD are not setting fires with any consistency that you'd write home about.

Edited by xovian

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7 hours ago, xovian said:

Call me noob, but i dont see it with AP, in fact i see just the opposite (see below: AP/HE/ HE+IFHE), look at the ratios of pen vs other:

image.thumb.png.cc9810ba67a4e697fe686fdbaa796e1a.png

So your parenthesis are telling me that AP is on the left, HE is in the middle and HE+IFHE is on the right? Would be nice if it was on the graphic but I guess the screen doesn't say that in the game.

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@n5bar

That is correct.

Even if you count the overpens, which do reduced damage, the amount of actual damage done with AP was pathetic for the amount of rounds fired.
RNG just being unkind? Maybe. But every time i have tested this, the results are always similar.
For reference the testing bed was not the trainging room but co-op, as you have nice moving targets of every ship type. The overpens were mostly from fighting another DD.
Used the z-46 for this session, z-52 also gets similar results though.

Below pic is all AP, done in same match, first was prior to fighting the carrier, second included the carrier.

z-46-ap.png

Edited by xovian

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When I had my corgi account, I think I did something like EM+BFT on the 128mm guns, because it gives better gun DPM.

I know I also took CE and LS, but I forgot what the rest of it was.

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Thanks @MrDeaf everything's gonna get looked at as I grind her up to the next tier. :cap_haloween:May be, I'll enjoy her by the end of the grind... 

@xovian seems like a whole lot of ricochets... were most of those shot then, angled? 

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Some were of course, but considering the bots tend to charge straight at you, many were not, but the ricochets still occurred quite often, even when fully broadside vs Cruisers and BB.
Aiming for citadel seemed to increase this even more, so most shots were not fired for citadel hits.
VS DD it was slightly less, but that's only because broadside is a given when torps are coming.

Just had a game recently with out using IFHE, needless to say i've re-speced once more to take it again.
And did i mention i hate weekends, went from a 61% win rate to 50% in the space of just a few games.
Cant win for loosing on the weekends no matter how well you play sometimes.

 

z-52-noifhe.png

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Okay thanks for the info - and yea, weekends..

 

Server population is over 18K right now... but play quality is down I think... RNG is kicking me where the sun don't shine again and again. :cap_cool:

Well - there's always tomorrow. 

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This is what I would run on a 19pt Gaede using the 150mm guns (and only for this special setup).
http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/1000000000000011000001000010000119

The last 3 points is a choice between TAE and SE with me leaning towards TAE. If you want to have both you can also dismiss SI.

 

The reason for this build is that the 150mm guns with IFHE can penetrate basically everything it sees. It also has a high enough healthpool to get away with not having SE.

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I originally played through Gaede with 2 games in PVP and the rest in Ranked before setting it aside as an "ugh, not gonna play ship this again".  With the recent forum event that Super_Splash_Brother put on (Liquidator achievement), I started playing it again and realized that I was missing out.  If played well, it's a beast.  I think it gets a bad rap because people don't give it enough time before wanting to move on.  

Everyone plays differently, but I usually scout, cap if possible (otherwise contest them), stealth torp as often as I can, and (assuming I can find a semi safe place with an escape), to smoke up and shoot juicy targets... while using hydro for that advanced warning system.

Anyway, I've got a 19 point captain on my Gaede (as of this morning), and my build is as follows:

Level 1:  PT, PM, IFA

Level 2:  EM, AR, LS

Level 3:  TAE, SI

Level 4:  CE

As noted in my previous comment, I use the 150's and have been pretty happy with them.  You have a narrow window for stealth torping (only 1.4k with CE) but I have plenty of experience with IJN DDs so am always watching my concealment range.  As with any ship, good situational awareness is key to success.

Good luck @Herr_Reitz!

B

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3 hours ago, bassmasta76 said:

If played well, it's a beast.

It's more like "If the reds are really dumb and constantly play into your hands, it will do well".

I think the 6.6km max concealment and its general fatness are the killing features on it. There are more DDs with better concealment in its tier bracket than Gaede, which is what hampers it the most.

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On 2/26/2018 at 12:41 PM, MrDeaf said:

It's more like "If the reds are really dumb and constantly play into your hands, it will do well".

I think the 6.6km max concealment and its general fatness are the killing features on it. There are more DDs with better concealment in its tier bracket than Gaede, which is what hampers it the most.

Truest statement about this ship on this thread thusfar.  I had a disproportionate number of potato teams I played the ship against.

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On 3/1/2018 at 8:35 PM, JochenHeiden said:

  I had a disproportionate number of potato teams I played the ship against.

I've had this in every ship as of late. When i keep making the top 1-3 in damage you know it's wrong as i am not a person that generally gets a lot of damage (trying to spot and maintain concealment).
I think it is largely true for the German line and not just this ship, but we are not a "carry" ship, and are often at the mercy of our teams for good or ill.

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Setting up a Skipper for both the Gaede and Z-23 leaves one with a bit of a conundrum - whether to select the 150mm guns, or not.

I would argue that if you stick with the 128s, then BFT is practically a "must have" - and you'll want it on both the 46 and the 52.

As I'm sure you know, though - it does nothing for the 150s.

So - if you're dubloon rich and want to use the 150s - perhaps switch BFT out for Superintendent, while you grind through the Gaede and 23 (which is what I did), and switch back for the Maas and 46 onward.

I suppose an argument could be made for the 128s being more effective than the 150s - but I really enjoyed  citadeling unsuspecting cruisers with the 150mm AP - and fun is what its all about, after all! 

Anyway - this is the skill-build I use on the Z-52, and all the other KM DDs with 128mm guns - for the 150s, I swapped BFT for SI.

I very much enjoyed the Gaede - but I enjoyed the Maas even more!

 

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I may have hinted or said this earlier... but I think I'm going to take it easy with the Gaede... it just rubs big Jim and the twins the wrong way... just something about the ship doesn't work for me... but appreciate the suggestions and feedback. I can at least enjoy it much more than before. 

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