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Belthorian

A change in the fire mechanic is needed

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 I had back surgery and wound up being away from the game for about a year. I have been back with a vengeance and am having a lot of fun. The one major thing I have noticed with the introduction of the British battleship line and their gimmick HE ability is that it has done a lot to remove skill from the game. In my American, German, or Japanese battleships it was purely situational on when to use HE or HE. If you had a bow on Yammy sitting back at 15k you used HE and tried to set him on fire. If he rolls out and shows you that nice fat broadside you used AP and got the citadel damage.On the flip side you had to tread that fine line between opening up enough to bring all of your guns to bear and keeping a decent angle so you didn't get citadeled. If you played your battleship well you would be rewarded with HUGE numbers. I recently had a 298k damage 5 kill game in my Yammy, but if you played poorly you wound up with 50k damage and 1 kill if you are lucky.

 With how the British battleships are currently constituted in game it takes ALL skill out of the game for both the British BB captain AND the player he is shooting at. All British BB captains do is spam HE the entire game. I have seen COUNTLESS British BB captains firing HE at a battleship giving them a full broadside at less than 10K. Rewarding that kind of stupidity in game seems like a bad idea in my opinion. When playing against a British BB, it makes NO DIFFERENCE how I position my ship, angles count for NOTHING when all he is going to do is spam HE the entire match. Removing any pretense of being a better skilled player brings better in game results especially at high tier is a HUGE mistake in my opinion. British battleships need to be reworked to bring them in line with other nations battleships. Having each ship line have unique gimmicks is unnecessary and only hurts the game play. Picking the must unappealing game mechanic in the game and building an entire ship line around it also seems like a very poorly thought out idea.

 I have suggested before that the fire mechanic needs to be reworked. Instead of causing PHYSICAL damage to the ship the HE effect should be a gradual reduction in AA mounts and a temporary increase in dispersion. Fires should over time reduce the AA capacity of ships not reduce the physical health or cut the damage rate of fire by 80%. The reason why I think this game mechanic would work is it would make carriers viable again. It would REQUIRE teamwork where cruisers and DD's could wear down another ships ability to defend itself from carrier attack to where even the might Iowa class ships could be attacked by CV's without them losing all of their aircraft. This would reintroduce individual player skill to the game. It would eliminate the terrible players from spamming HE the entire game and getting good results from terrible game play. It would encourage teamwork and communication between players in game as well as teams formulating strategies for dealing with various ships in the game.

 

One other thing, I play a full concealment build in all my BB's and I really love it. However I think it is overpowered in Battleships. A full concealment battleship should NEVER have a better concealment rating than even the largest cruiser. I know this would nerf some of my favorite ships however in the interest of fairness and better in game balance I think cruisers on all tiers should get a concealment buff to keep them just below what the best battleships are.

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To be fair, RN BBs are leaving a lot of damage on the table when they use HE against broadside targets. Their damage is also dealt over more time and is generally repairable. 

They do hurt the quality of battleship play, but it is not as bad as you make it out to be. It is also a double-edged sword - the RN BBs are more vulnerable to HE themselves, having plating no thicker than 32mm (except the main belt). While the Lion and Conqueror get the upgraded heal, it doesn't make them invulnerable. 

I would support nerfing RN HE somewhat (and buffing their AP to compensate), but there does need to be some variability between lines, and most other low handing fruit (Armor, AA, AP Performance) has been implemented in one of the other lines. 

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The game play you remember form a year ago is long gone, the RN BB's are not that formidable. that's their one trick and when you learn to play around  it there toast. they also reduced the fire time since then....

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1 minute ago, MaxL_1023 said:

To be fair, RN BBs are leaving a lot of damage on the table when they use HE against broadside targets. Their damage is also dealt over more time and is generally repairable. 

They do hurt the quality of battleship play, but it is not as bad as you make it out to be. It is also a double-edged sword - the RN BBs are more vulnerable to HE themselves, having plating no thicker than 32mm (except the main belt). While the Lion and Conqueror get the upgraded heal, it doesn't make them invulnerable. 

I would support nerfing RN HE somewhat (and buffing their AP to compensate), but there does need to be some variability between lines, and most other low handing fruit (Armor, AA, AP Performance) has been implemented in one of the other lines. 

I would buff the Ap, one possible unique buff you could do is give the British the ability to decrease the reload times of the main batteries by a significant margin in exchange for a greater percentage chance of magazine detonation. The British had a historically documented tendency to ignore safety precautions to the absolute fastest possible reloads. 

 

I understand they are leaving a lot of damage on the table when they fire HE at a full broadside opponent from close range. It enrages me when they are on my team doing stupid stuff like that and I see it ALL THE TIME. Having terrible players on your team reduces the enjoyment factor of the game a lot. It is funny since I came back to game I pretty much refuse to play by myself because of all the bad players. My WTR rating hovers between the mid 1200's and 1400 on any given day. I will generally seek out other players in my clan with similar stats because I know that three good players can more easily overcome the really bad players you come across. Since I did that coming back to the game my win rate is right at 60%. On good days it can be as high as 90%. Than I believe it triggers matchmaking and I will get saddled with 9 other players with WTR's in the 500's and not matter what we do it is impossible to win a game until my overall win% drops below a certain level and magically matchmaking starts putting competent players back on my team. A couple of weeks ago from Monday through Friday I was winning at a 88% clip. Than on Sat and Sun with the exact same division mates we lost 28 of 35 matches in the most lopsided fashion you could ever imagine. LOL I think wargaming punishes you if you play too well in this game.

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I vote we increase fire duration to help nerf bbs, they're over performing

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Even supposedly nerfed they are still the easy button in WOW's. I have a former clan mate who I like but is a really bad player. His WTR is never over 700. The Conq is the only tier 10 BB he will play and all he does is sit at max range and set people on fire. HE averages about 20 fires a match. That type of game play should not be encouraged.

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5 minutes ago, Fog_Battleship_NCarolina said:

I vote we increase fire duration to help nerf bbs, they're over performing

 

lol I would say no to that, I looked at your stats you are one of the better players in the game. It isn't that Battleships are over performing.....YOU ARE OVER PERFORMING. I will also say that I understand that this isn't a simulator but battleships were the WMD's of their day. They were technical monstrosities that struck fear in anyone NOT in a battleship. they are so easily destroyed in this game, no nation would have wasted the resources required to build them. It is good to hear from you, I was in FOG in closed beta and played with you in quite a few games.

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Fire is fine I have no difficulties with it all.

I'm a average player at best. The problem is not fire it is you.

A Captain Skill that reduces fire chance and there's a ship module that reduces fire chance if you're not taking them that's a problem with you not fire

Edited by MasterofGladness

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Funny how you bring up angling and how it's useless against UK BB's but at the start your talking about how you love the Yamato. Angling is pretty useless against the Yammy. Just a little funny to me.

Oh and HE is fine.

Edited by scerviche178

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4 minutes ago, scerviche178 said:

Funny how you bring up angling and how it's useless against UK BB's but at the start your talking about how you love the Yamato. Angling is pretty useless against the Yammy. Just a little funny to me.

Oh and HE is fine.

You are crazy if you think angling against the Yammy is useless. I smack Yammy's all the time in my Montana using angling to keep me alive.

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Just now, Belthorian said:

You are crazy if you think angling against the Yammy is useless. I smack Yammy's all the time in my Montana using angling to keep me alive.

The Yamato can lolpen anyone from any angle.

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35 minutes ago, Raven114 said:

The game play you remember form a year ago is long gone, the RN BB's are not that formidable. that's their one trick and when you learn to play around  it there toast. they also reduced the fire time since then....

Agreed. I am a CH main. Learn them and beat them. The RN cruisers with their 'belt fed' guns are more difficult.

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17 minutes ago, MasterofGladness said:

Fire is fine I have no difficulties with it all.

I'm a average player at best. The problem is not fire it is you.

A Captain Skill that reduces fire chance and there's a ship module that reduces fire chance if you're not taking them that's a problem with you not fire

I take the damage control one and two modules. Taking the skill is pretty POINTLESS when a British BB has a 47% chance of causing a fire and you WASTE skill points in something that only reduces the chance of fire by 10% and the maximum number of fires from 4 to three. Without the Fire Prevention skill I can count on the number of times I have had four fires burning on one hand. You are FAR better off going concealment and going dark when faced with HE spam.

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7 minutes ago, scerviche178 said:

The Yamato can lolpen anyone from any angle.

Than I would say that you don't have very much experience playing high tier ships. A Moskva can bow tank a Yamato and never have to worry about being citadeled. If you are at really close range than of course the Yammy can pen with the right Rng but angling does work on the Yammy at most distances.

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3 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

Than I would say that you don't have very much experience playing high tier ships. A Moskva can bow tank a Yamato and never have to worry about being citadeled. If you are at really close range than of course the Yammy can pen with the right Rng but angling does work on the Yammy at most distances.

Well i'm good enough at the game not to come to the forums to cry about HE.

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Just another "Nerf this thing that is capable of dealing damage of any kind to my precious battleship" thread.

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1 minute ago, scerviche178 said:

Well i'm good enough at the game not to come to the forums to cry about HE.

 If you think my post is "Crying" than add reading comprehension to the list of things you need to work on. I was simply stating that the fire mechanic as constituted in game could use a revamp to make the game more enjoyable for all. It would FORCE bad players who think there is only one type of ammo, HE to adjust and become BETTER players. Since I came back from my one year layoff I have been playing BETTER than I was before my back injury. I attribute that to all the BAD players I see in British battleships. A perfect example was a game in my Yammy where I had a close range duel of about 7km with a full health Conq and a Monarch.....I killed both of them, only because they were really crappy players and relied on HE the entire time. Competent players could have deleted me in a few salvos.

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39 minutes ago, scerviche178 said:

The Yamato can lolpen anyone from any angle.

Not your belt. You just fight against it like a low tier BB instead of bow tanking.

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1 hour ago, Belthorian said:

 

lol I would say no to that, I looked at your stats you are one of the better players in the game. It isn't that Battleships are over performing.....YOU ARE OVER PERFORMING. I will also say that I understand that this isn't a simulator but battleships were the WMD's of their day. They were technical monstrosities that struck fear in anyone NOT in a battleship. they are so easily destroyed in this game, no nation would have wasted the resources required to build them. It is good to hear from you, I was in FOG in closed beta and played with you in quite a few games.

 

I'm just going off the DD mafias agenda, they converted me to the way of trying to make dds op

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18 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Just another "Nerf this thing that is capable of dealing damage of any kind to my precious battleship" thread.

I don't mind the HE itself. It is the counter play I dislike. 

Keep your distance, angle and avoid being focused on top of survival skills and you almost never die to HE. 

However that makes for insanely boring games. 

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2 minutes ago, Fog_Battleship_NCarolina said:

 

I'm just going off the DD mafias agenda, they converted me to the way of trying to make dds op

lol what is interesting is how the rock paper scissors mechanic in game closely represents what it was like in real life. The biggest threat to the Battleship was the torpedo and the torpedo boat. Destroyers were originally designed with that mission in mind aka torpedo boat destroyer which over time was just shortened to destroyer. Nothing was scarier to battleship sailors than a night torpedo attack. 

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10 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

 If you think my post is "Crying" than add reading comprehension to the list of things you need to work on. I was simply stating that the fire mechanic as constituted in game could use a revamp to make the game more enjoyable for all. It would FORCE bad players who think there is only one type of ammo, HE to adjust and become BETTER players. Since I came back from my one year layoff I have been playing BETTER than I was before my back injury. I attribute that to all the BAD players I see in British battleships. A perfect example was a game in my Yammy where I had a close range duel of about 7km with a full health Conq and a Monarch.....I killed both of them, only because they were really crappy players and relied on HE the entire time. Competent players could have deleted me in a few salvos.

It also, conveniently, removes about 80% of the damage cruisers can do to battleships, and nerfs the only thing destroyers have left that can reliably damage the thing they're supposed to counter in this game.

 

You know. After all the torpedo nerfs that battleship mains whined the devs into doing.

Edited by KiyoSenkan
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23 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Just another "Nerf this thing that is capable of dealing damage of any kind to my precious battleship" thread.

 No not really, I would want to see a buff in British battleship AP to encourage British battleship players to play their ships more effectively. I just don't want to see a British BB player firing HE at a full broadside battleship from 10k or less like I see ALL the time. Those are BAD players that hurts the overall in game experience.

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13 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

 If you think my post is "Crying" than add reading comprehension to the list of things you need to work on. I was simply stating that the fire mechanic as constituted in game could use a revamp to make the game more enjoyable for all. It would FORCE bad players who think there is only one type of ammo, HE to adjust and become BETTER players. Since I came back from my one year layoff I have been playing BETTER than I was before my back injury. I attribute that to all the BAD players I see in British battleships. A perfect example was a game in my Yammy where I had a close range duel of about 7km with a full health Conq and a Monarch.....I killed both of them, only because they were really crappy players and relied on HE the entire time. Competent players could have deleted me in a few salvos.

So you can easily deal with the "problem" of HE spamming UK BB's but you still want it changed? Making it so UK BB's HE is not as strong as it is right now won't magically make poor players play better. If anything i think having a brain dead BB line like the UK one actually makes these bad players do better.

Again if you have no problem dealing with the UK ships then why even change them?

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