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Thom_Sawyer_XO

Opponent tier

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Is it supposed to be fun to always fight ships two tiers higher then mine? I'd really like to learn this game against ships of equal footing, not what I seem to play day  after day. Is this normal?

 

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You could always stick to t4 that at least only sees t5, but the + - 2 tiers, its something you have to get used to once your in t5 and up, only way to stop it is to play t10.

As far as fun goes, there's nothing more satisfying than a t5 dd killing an Atlanta, so yes it can be fun.

 

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Like world of tanks, it's +/- 2 lvls of matchmaking except for tier 4 protected MM, like the previous poster mentioned. The only WG title that has +/- 1 tier MM is world of warplanes(it also has respawn).

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Once you get to tier IX you're guaranteed not to face ships 2 tiers higher.  So there's that to look forward to. :Smile_teethhappy:

In all seriousness, I know the uptiering hurts most in battleships, which appears to be what you play most.  My guess would be that you might be struggling a bit with positioning and with map awareness...your T4 & below numbers are solid, but the tiny mistakes you can generally get away with at those lower tiers tend to get punished at T5 & up, and it doesn't help that you're heavily outgunned by T7/8 battleships and don't have the speed to get away if you overextend.  Some of the bigger community contributors have posted some very good YouTube videos regarding mid/high tier battleship play, in particular some of Flamu's replay analysis clips taken from his live streams...it couldn't hurt to check some of those out if you haven't already.  You can also send a replay or two to Lord_Zath from here on the forums for some personal analysis.

You could also give destroyers more of a shot.  It's an entirely different play style which might be outside of your current comfort zone, but the change-up might help your play in BBs & cruisers as well.  Plus DDs in general don't mind being up-tiered so much.

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It wouldn't be so bad if on occasion I had the same advantage I seem to be giving up every game. I have never fought 2 tiers down even in my tier 7 and 8 ships I own. I always tier up for some reason and that makes the whole experience real sour. I guess I misjudged this game. 

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30 minutes ago, Thom_Sawyer_XO said:

It wouldn't be so bad if on occasion I had the same advantage I seem to be giving up every game. I have never fought 2 tiers down even in my tier 7 and 8 ships I own. I always tier up for some reason and that makes the whole experience real sour. I guess I misjudged this game. 

I think you're having a bad case of selective memory here.  Tier 7 sees statistically less bottom tier games, but saying you've never encountered tier 10's in your tier 8 is gonna make half the forum's brains explode.

On a more productive note:  Perhaps you should start thinking less about tier?  A large part of enjoyment is the mentality, and unlike WoT, being two tiers down doesn't mean you can't do much.  A bottom tier BB can still dev strike a top tier cruiser, and a top tier BB fears torps even if they're from a DD two tiers lower.  Try to approach it as a puzzle, and possibly take your ship different places than you would when you're top tier.  While it sucks knowing you're at a disadvantage versus an enemy, it's also an amazing feeling when you beat them anyways.  Good luck!

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2 minutes ago, Kenjister said:

I think you're having a bad case of selective memory here.  Tier 7 sees statistically less bottom tier games, but saying you've never encountered tier 10's in your tier 8 is gonna make half the forum's brains explode.

I didn't say I've never seen a tier 10 while in my tier 8 boat. Seen that too much. I never see boats 2 tiers lower than me, while I see two tiers higher almost every game. Not being selective, this is what I see.

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Ah sorry must have misread then.  Still, tier 7 statistically see's 2 tiers lower more than any other tier.  So unless you're a statistical anomaly you've probably never noticed how often you're top tier.

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2 hours ago, CriMiNaL__ said:

As far as fun goes, there's nothing more satisfying than a t5 dd killing an Atlanta, so yes it can be fun.

Idiot Atlanta driver, worse that it was a DD 2 tiers lower.

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1 hour ago, Harv72b said:

Once you get to tier IX you're guaranteed not to face ships 2 tiers higher.  So there's that to look forward to. :Smile_teethhappy:

In all seriousness, I know the uptiering hurts most in battleships, which appears to be what you play most.  My guess would be that you might be struggling a bit with positioning and with map awareness...your T4 & below numbers are solid, but the tiny mistakes you can generally get away with at those lower tiers tend to get punished at T5 & up, and it doesn't help that you're heavily outgunned by T7/8 battleships and don't have the speed to get away if you overextend.  Some of the bigger community contributors have posted some very good YouTube videos regarding mid/high tier battleship play, in particular some of Flamu's replay analysis clips taken from his live streams...it couldn't hurt to check some of those out if you haven't already.  You can also send a replay or two to Lord_Zath from here on the forums for some personal analysis.

You could also give destroyers more of a shot.  It's an entirely different play style which might be outside of your current comfort zone, but the change-up might help your play in BBs & cruisers as well.  Plus DDs in general don't mind being up-tiered so much.

The one problem with that is the power creep between T9 and T10. Having to face a Yamato in the Izumo is the epitome of torture.

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Anyone remember when it was THREE tier spread ?  A t4 Wyoming fighting against t7 colorados?  Tenryu t3 vs cleveland t6?  Or worse a Shokaku t8 against Omaha t5.

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Just now, Swift_Scythe said:

Anyone remember when it was THREE tier spread ?  A t4 Wyoming fighting against t7 colorados?  Tenryu t3 vs cleveland t6?  Or worse a Shokaku t8 against Omaha t5.

 

Aww yeah!

 

Spoiler

9c1aowR.jpg

 

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Tiers are just a number. I'm just as likely to sink a Nagat/Colorado/King George V/Gneisenau/Scharnhorst/Hood in a Kongou/New York/Texas/Iron Duke/Konig as I am if playing any of the tier 6 or 7 Battleships. Stop complaining, it's just a number and learn that every ship is balanced to fight in it's match making spread. Some may be worse than others, and others better than some, but it matters not. Hell, learn to start enjoying taking a Tier V BB and sinking a Tier 7 BB. I loved facing Amagis and North Carolinas in my Kongou, and to this day I can remember the 6 or 8 Tier 8 BBs I have sunk in my Kongou with very fond memories.

Do not hate up tiering, see it as a way to solo kill a boss, so you can feel good that you just sank something two tiers above you.

~Hunter

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1 hour ago, pikohan said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

9c1aowR.jpg

 

Personally, once they did that "protected" MM crap, a lot of my t3-4's average damage dropped... particularly the protected cruisers of t3. Can't wait till they get rid of the -1/+1 crap that's causing all these problems with mm. Nice to see a St. louis carry a t6 game. 

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21 hours ago, Thom_Sawyer_XO said:

Is it supposed to be fun to always fight ships two tiers higher then mine? I'd really like to learn this game against ships of equal footing, not what I seem to play day  after day. Is this normal?

It is not only normal it's preferable...if you are trying to get from 1 ship to the next in the tree (& who isn't)...being up-tiered is the fastest way to get there (unless you only shoot at the lower tier ships like yours). There's a much bigger XP pay out for hitting higher tier ships (compare your XP from a battle where you are up-tiered to a similar performance where you are down-tiered & see if you don't notice the difference).

Types of ships vary in XP also so take that into consideration...each ship/tier has the same XP value (tire 8 BB worth same XP as tier 8 DD/CA/CL/CV as XP is based off of percentage of damage done to a ship...so a torp hit on a DD (about 1/2 of it's life) is gonna be worth a lot more than a torp hit on a BB (about 1/8th of it's life).

But a torp hit on a T10 DD (even though it's gonna be a lower percentage of it's full life) is still gonna be worth more than a torp hit on a T8 DD as game rewards the aggressive nature of attacking higher tier ships when down-tiered.

When they made T4 +/- 1 they just increased the grind of T4 ships...which is probably for the better as it give new people more practice before advancing to the higher tiers.

Edit: Remember...every ship type has a ship type that it is either strong against or week against no matter what 2 tier higher ship it is facing...

DDs can still annihilate (stealth torp) BBs 2 tiers higher...CA/CLs can still annihilate DDs 2 tiers higher...& BBs can still annihilate CA/CLs 2 tiers higher...& CVs can still annihilate any type of ship 2 tiers higher...all of these examples can be achieved in a couple (or even a single) volley. You can still be a big factor while being up-tiered.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos
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2 hours ago, pikohan said:
3 hours ago, Swift_Scythe said:

Anyone remember when it was THREE tier spread ?  A t4 Wyoming fighting against t7 colorados?  Tenryu t3 vs cleveland t6?  Or worse a Shokaku t8 against Omaha t5.

 

Aww yeah!

 

  Reveal hidden contents

9c1aowR.jpg

 

 

That's a div fail...Swift_Scythe is referring to being up-tiered by 3 w/out a div fail...just standard MM. Before my time...but I was around when a T10 used to be able to div w/a T1 (or anywhere in between)...the ultimate div fail.

Edit: Gonna leave this epic failure in observation skills up so as to not throw off rhythm of thread...but wow...yeah...time for bed.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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24 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

 

That's a div fail...Swift_Scythe is referring to being up-tiered by 3 w/out a div fail...just standard MM. Before my time...but I was around when a T10 used to be able to div w/a T1 (or anywhere in between)...the ultimate div fail.

The St.Lo is div'd with a Kawachi, and both are in Tier VI. I see no fail there lol

~Hunter

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9 minutes ago, Hunter_Steel said:

The St.Lo is div'd with a Kawachi, and both are in Tier VI. I see no fail there lol

~Hunter

I seen your St. L. in a T6 match & just immediately assumed div fail...never even looked...

 

2 hours ago, pikohan said:

 

Aww yeah!

 

  Reveal hidden contents

9c1aowR.jpg

 

My bad...was that a recent battle...haven't seen that before...especially evil because of the 3 man T4 div on red team.

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1 hour ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

DDs can still annihilate (stealth torp) BBs 2 tiers higher...CA/CLs can still annihilate DDs 2 tiers higher...& BBs can still annihilate CA/CLs 2 tiers higher...& CVs can still annihilate anything 2 tiers higher...all of these examples can be achieved in a couple (or even a single) volley. You can still be a big factor while being up-tiered.

CVs can still annihilate anything 2 tiers higher? I tend to disagree with this portion. An uptiered CV is most of the time, going to struggle against the high end. A T6 CV vs T8 AA, is generally very bad for the CV.

 

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No matter what tier ships you’re playing any ship can effectively fight another. A T10 BB can get dev stuck by a T8 DD the same way a T10 DD can get Radared and shot up by a Chappy. A T10 CA can get nuked from across the map by a T8 BB just as effectively as a T10 BB could do the task.

Instead of worrying about the tier differences, know your ship’s strengths and weaknesses, and pay attention to what ships on the enemy team can exploit your weaknesses and which ships on the enemy team you can fight to your strengths. 

Take Moskva. T10 VMF CA. Carries near 12km Radar that lasts a decent amount of time. You also have those soviet railguns. Use these to hunt enemy DDs and use your strong AP shells to punish broadside enemies. But also be especially wary of BBs and their ability to overmatch/lolpen your 25mm bow, and in some cases other CA, especially if they manage to get side shots at you. 

At the beginning of any match dont write yourself off because you’re bottom tier. Instead ask yourself “what can I do to help us win?” 

 

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Just because you /can/ fight two tiers up doesn't mean you should have to, or that it's very enjoyable.

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Just now, crzyhawk said:

Just because you /can/ fight two tiers up doesn't mean you should have to, or that it's very enjoyable.

When you compare the XP benefits it is always very enjoyable.

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5 minutes ago, Kildayil said:

CVs can still annihilate anything 2 tiers higher? I tend to disagree with this portion. An uptiered CV is most of the time, going to struggle against the high end. A T6 CV vs T8 AA, is generally very bad for the CV.

 

Meant to say any type of ship 2 tiers higher...not necessarily all of them but there will be certain BBs/DDs/CAs/CLs/& CVs that can be annihilated in a couple volleys.

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6 hours ago, Thom_Sawyer_XO said:

Is it supposed to be fun to always fight ships two tiers higher then mine? I'd really like to learn this game against ships of equal footing, not what I seem to play day  after day. Is this normal?

 

 

I would suggest popping into PvE to get used to being bottom tier from T5+. Once you are comfortable being bottom tier vs bots, then pop back into PvP to get comfortable being bottom tier vs people.

 

I'm a PvE main, but I play some PvP. When I got bottom tiered at first, I was worried and thinking I could not do anything. I got comfortable being bottom tiered vs bots, so that gave me the confidence to be bottom tier vs people. Now, after playing some more PvP than usual for the Yamamoto campaign, I'm comfortable being bottom tier vs people.

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So if you guys are saying tier is just a number then elminate captains and give all ships access to the same all mount of modules otherwise yes tier 5-7 mm should be fixed protected or reworked.And while that is being done add a tier 11 so all the 9s and 10 can go play with themselves

Edited by WW2_Iron_Duke
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