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Malarkey_

RN - No skill needed?

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Is it just me or it the RN branch just all gimmick and doesn't have a high skill level?

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Not "no skill needed", but definitely not as demanding of skill, I guess would be a fair statement.

 

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2 minutes ago, Malarkey_ said:

Is it just me or it the RN branch just all gimmick and doesn't have a high skill level?

If you mean to play, well, I've got news for you:  nothing in this game requires a high skill level.  It's rather elementary in its fundamentals -- at least until you hit tier 6 with an aircraft carrier (then god help you if you haven't seen any tutorials).  That said, I'll try not to split hairs.

Royal Navy Cruisers

The Gimmick List:

  • No HE shells.
  • Shorted AP fuse timers.
  • Reduced fuse thresholds on AP shells.
  • Improved autobounce angles on AP shells.
  • Access to a limited Smoke Generator consumable.
  • Access to a Repair Party consumable at tiers 6+.
  • Access to an improved Repair Party consumable at tiers 8+. 

The gimmick list for RN Cruisers looks especially long but they're predicated by the cruiser's lack of range and fragility.  The first solution was to give them access to Smoke Generators.  However, testing showed that allowing rapid fire cruisers to sit in smoke and bombard enemy ships with HE shells was a terrible idea, so Wargaming then nixed their HE shells entirely and tweaked their Smoke Generators.  Their AP shells had to be made more universal which is why we see all of the tweaks to this ammunition type.  It still doesn't work at all angles though it's largely successful.  However, this made the ships incredibly unforgiving, so to make them more accessible, they then beefed them with a Repair Party.

Royal Navy Cruisers are one of the least accessible ship lines in the game.  They are absolutely punitive to most casual players and getting a firm hand on them is difficult.

Royal Navy Battleships

The Gimmick List:

  • Shortened AP fuse timers
  • Improved HE penetration
  • Improved damage queue for Repair Party
  • Access to an improved Repair Party consumable at tiers 9+.

If the Royal Navy battleships have a cardinal sin, it's that they don't emphasize the need to change ammunition types. Before you jump off your seats and yell "aha!", I remind you that this is a sin shared with Japanese battleships which can fire nothing by AP shells forever and always and do very well for themselves.  American battleships are not too far behind in this regard either, with the need only being predicated at tiers 8+ when overmatching the bows of enemy battleships magically ceases to function for all ships except the Yamato-sisters. 

Is HE easier to use that AP?  Generally speaking, yes.  I wouldn't say there's much difference for battleships, really, but it is present.  I would say the disparity between HE and AP shells is much more pronounced at the cruiser level where proper management of ammunition types is a matter of life or death often enough to matter.  For battleships?  Pfft, pick one ammo type and spam.  This doesn't make Royal Navy Battleships absolutely brainless, however.  They are forgiving.  By design, they're meant to be.  But they don't unseat the front runners in ease-of-use; the German battleships.

Were it not for Gneisenau, which requires a bit of a lighter touch to do well in, the German battleships are functionally idiot proof. 

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RN cruisers are eazy to play, just make sure you turn to show a full broadside as you leave your smoke, max damage that way.

(but honestly, once you learn the basics of one RN cruiser, they are all much the same, which cannot be said of many other tech trees, where changing tier can have a dramatic change in the necessary style of game play. RN cruisers are consistent, therefore, in at least this respect, genuinely easy to learn.)

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Eeeeeehhhhhh..... I find the limitations of only ever firing AP to be far more, well, limiting than only ever firing HE. HE has far simpler mechanics associated with it than AP does; it either penetrates, and does damage, or it doesn't. AP has to deal with autobounce checks, overpenetration, etc. As soon as you get a target than knows how to angle properly, if you can't overmatch, your effective AP damage is going to drop significantly. For this reason, USN and IJN battleships don't promote brainless spam of a single ammo type in the same way RN battleships do. Sometimes loading HE is absolutely the thing to do. You're simply trading raw damage output for consistency. The Germans take this to the extreme. German AP is very powerful, but also very finnicky. German HE is very consistent, but also very weak. Royal Navy is the other way around; HE does a metric boatload of damage and does that damage reliably. Royal Navy HE on the other hand is so powerful, and the AP unreliable enough, as to arguably make the AP an inferior choice even in situations where other nations' battleships would shoot AP without question.

Spamming HE is always going to be a more consistent way to deal damage to most targets in most situations, and while everybody else has to trade the raw damage potential of AP for that consistency, Royal Navy does not. You simply load HE, point, click, and farm damage. And you can seriously justify never pressing 2. Pressing 2 is actually a detrimental choice, most of the time.

That's the difference.

And yeah, the 'no-skill' argument pretty much only applies to the battleships. I don't believe anybody that understands how the game works would ever accuse RN cruisers of being easy or forgiving to play. If anything, as Mouse pointed out, they have the highest skill floor (and also probably the highest skill ceiling) of any cruiser line in the game.

--Helms

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Some of the Royal Navy battleships do seem to be idiot-proof. Orion at Tier 4, Lion T9 and Conqueror T10 can do very well shooting nothing by HE. No need to learn the finer points of aiming to do fairly well. Ditto on angling because they are very difficult to citadel. Lion and Conqueror do take lots of penetration damage, but they have that ridiculous heal. You also don’t have to worry as much about positioning because Conqueror’s detection range is only a few hundred meters longer than Grosse Kurfurst’s maximum secondary range. Oh and they have relatively good AA without doing anything special, especially Orion. 

You need to angle somewhat intelligently to play the Iron Duke at T5. Switching to AP is bad for enemy cruisers, good for you.

Queen Elizabeth at Tier 6 is the odd duck since she’s effectively the old Warspite with better armor and much better AA.  You need to know how to play a B.B. and use AP to do well in her.

King George V at T7 and Monarch at T8 are slightly weaker but can be played HE only.  They take tons of penetration damage though, and lack the ridiculous heal of Lion, Conqueror and Nelson.  Monarch in particular has a lower fire chance than the T7 and the T9 for some inexplicable reason.

I left Nelson out because she needs that heal to survive.  You also need to know when to load AP for maximum effect and heaven won’t help you if you don’t angle intelligently.  Won’t help you even if you do angle sometimes.  Nelson is not a PHD ship (push here dummy).

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

If you mean to play, well, I've got news for you:  nothing in this game requires a high skill level.  It's rather elementary in its fundamentals -- at least until you hit tier 6 with an aircraft carrier (then god help you if you haven't seen any tutorials).  That said, I'll try not to split hairs.

Royal Navy Cruisers

The Gimmick List:

  • No HE shells.
  • Shorted AP fuse timers.
  • Reduced fuse thresholds on AP shells.
  • Improved autobounce angles on AP shells.
  • Access to a limited Smoke Generator consumable.
  • Access to a Repair Party consumable at tiers 6+.
  • Access to an improved Repair Party consumable at tiers 8+. 

The gimmick list for RN Cruisers looks especially long but they're predicated by the cruiser's lack of range and fragility.  The first solution was to give them access to Smoke Generators.  However, testing showed that allowing rapid fire cruisers to sit in smoke and bombard enemy ships with HE shells was a terrible idea, so Wargaming then nixed their HE shells entirely and tweaked their Smoke Generators.  Their AP shells had to be made more universal which is why we see all of the tweaks to this ammunition type.  It still doesn't work at all angles though it's largely successful.  However, this made the ships incredibly unforgiving, so to make them more accessible, they then beefed them with a Repair Party.

Royal Navy Cruisers are one of the least accessible ship lines in the game.  They are absolutely punitive to most casual players and getting a firm hand on them is difficult.

Royal Navy Battleships

The Gimmick List:

  • Shortened AP fuse timers
  • Improved HE penetration
  • Improved damage queue for Repair Party
  • Access to an improved Repair Party consumable at tiers 9+.

If the Royal Navy battleships have a cardinal sin, it's that they don't emphasize the need to change ammunition types. Before you jump off your seats and yell "aha!", I remind you that this is a sin shared with Japanese battleships which can fire nothing by AP shells forever and always and do very well for themselves.  American battleships are not too far behind in this regard either, with the need only being predicated at tiers 8+ when overmatching the bows of enemy battleships magically ceases to function for all ships except the Yamato-sisters. 

Is HE easier to use that AP?  Generally speaking, yes.  I wouldn't say there's much difference for battleships, really, but it is present.  I would say the disparity between HE and AP shells is much more pronounced at the cruiser level where proper management of ammunition types is a matter of life or death often enough to matter.  For battleships?  Pfft, pick one ammo type and spam.  This doesn't make Royal Navy Battleships absolutely brainless, however.  They are forgiving.  By design, they're meant to be.  But they don't unseat the front runners in ease-of-use; the German battleships.

Were it not for Gneisenau, which requires a bit of a lighter touch to do well in, the German battleships are functionally idiot proof. 

Sorry LWM but you made mistake. RN CL's gets heals at tier 4 i belive then smoke at tier 5 :)

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41 minutes ago, JessieTheKitty said:

Sorry LWM but you made mistake. RN CL's gets heals at tier 4 i belive then smoke at tier 5 :)

My time in Emerald scarred me for life. It's no wonder I can scarcely remember the happy times in Danae.

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2 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

My time in Emerald scarred me for life. It's no wonder I can scarcely remember the happy times in Danae.

Lol love my emreald, its actually really rare for me to hate it. Its just... clicks for me. Hell i broke my record in her yesterday nearly got 3k base xp that game

IMG_3176.JPG

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8 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

My time in Emerald scarred me for life. It's no wonder I can scarcely remember the happy times in Danae.

Heh. It's nice to hear an expert confess that.

I'm sure there's a secret to her that a very select few people find, as @JessieTheKitty seems to have done. I keep her in port in the hope that I'll be granted time one day to go back and find that secret. I suspect it lies within the 6km range of her torpedoes. Given that the screenshot shows 10 torp hits, 9 floods and three kills, I suspect that at least one of those floods stuck (although given the nine floods, I'm sort of equally surprised not to see a Liquidator award up there).

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20 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

happy times in Danae

Wait really? That thing's so thin I citadel it with HE in Yuubari and generally bully the crap out of them with the Melon.

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1 hour ago, EmeraldAcid said:

Wait really?

Danae's potent enough in T4, especially with her torpedo fit-out. She can more or less hold her own, especially with the heal function, if you're careful with your positioning. Facing T5 from time to time as bottom tier is not that bad, because when you're king of the heap at T4 over T3's, things are good.

The Emerald is a horrible shock because she's both mediocre among her peers AND faces T7 matchmaking. If her AP had some super-long-range properties and she could snipe everything she'd be pleasant, but almost everything I can think of that an Emerald faces outranges her, and that makes her supremely frustrating to play. Smoke is her only salvation, or she'd practically be a paywall.

Compared to the Emerald, the Danae is not a bad ship to play. I only just got rid of mine because I'm up at Tier 8 now and really don't think I'll ever be taking her out again. If you want real horror, though, the Weymouth has it in spades; I took one out last night just for the hell of it, and man, that thing's shells bounce off of EVERYTHING. The exception comes if you can close to almost ramming distance and put a shell in the right place; then you can do up to 5000 damage with a singe citadel hit. But only then, and RNGesus needs to be blessing you. I'm actually going back down and working my way back up the British cruiser tree because I'm bored of the smoke meta and I want to re-learn how to do without it. The Weymouth makes it easy because AP guns is all you've got; not even any torpedoes.

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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14 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Heh. It's nice to hear an expert confess that.

I'm sure there's a secret to her that a very select few people find, as @JessieTheKitty seems to have done. I keep her in port in the hope that I'll be granted time one day to go back and find that secret. I suspect it lies within the 6km range of her torpedoes. Given that the screenshot shows 10 torp hits, 9 floods and three kills, I suspect that at least one of those floods stuck (although given the nine floods, I'm sort of equally surprised not to see a Liquidator award up there).

Well, the floods didnt exactly stick. I can send the replay if you want but ill give breif summary.

spawned on that werid map with all the islands donut shaped at the center with four caps. 

Then preceeded towards the middle as huntinf ground for dd's at which a clemson or nicholas came at me proceeded to take him down. Then after repositioning for a quick second a podvoisky? I think it was cant remember it was another dd but he came straight at me too so i turned and started hammering him meanwhile pheonix or omaha was coming from the middle sent torps towards him (that was my dev strike) after which i moved up into the donut hole i call it which a bb tried to come at me in one point so torped him killed, another bb came torped him too he died and i went counter capped and won

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10 hours ago, EmeraldAcid said:

Wait really? That thing's so thin I citadel it with HE in Yuubari and generally bully the crap out of them with the Melon.

Map Position is everything, I love my Danae at her tier she is very fun to ambush BB's with it's torpedo load out, it's guns can punish DD's and broad side cruisers. I find her plenty agile to fight in or near caps. I know some of this can be said for other cruisers at that tier but I just find the Danae does those things just a little better.

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