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dwightlooi

Alternative Tier X US DD -- USS Hull

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USS Hull (Tier X)

HP:  19,900          Detection Range:  7.6 km (Surface) / 4.3 km (Air)

Turn Radius:  630 m          Rudder Shift:  3.2 sec          Speed:  33 Knots    

Primary Guns: 3 x Single 203mm/55 Mk71 (Rng: 15.8km / Reload: 5 sec / 180 deg: 12.0 sec / Fire: 14% / Damage 2,800 (HE) / 5,000 (AP)

Secondary Guns:  4 x Single 76.2/50 mm DP (Rng: 5km / DPS: 56)

Torpedoes: 2 x 2 533mm Mk17 30 deg fixed  (Speed: 66 Knots / Damage: 17,900 / Reload: 50 sec)

Consumables: Damage Control, Smoke, Speed Boost or Repair, Surveillance Radar II (7.5km / 20 sec)

 

The USS Hull is slow, it has only 2 torpedo tubes per side and they don't even turn. It is not particularly stealthy. It is not particularly agile. It's AA is lousy by US standards. It is relatively healthy, but insignificantly more so than the Gearing. It does have three things that make it deadly -- SMOKE, RADAR and those three 8-inch autocannons. If you give up speed boost, you can pick up repair -- nice but it also means that you are not running away from anything.

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43 minutes ago, dwightlooi said:

 

USS Hull (Tier X)

HP:  19,900          Detection Range:  7.6 km (Surface) / 4.3 km (Air)

Turn Radius:  630 m          Rudder Shift:  3.2 sec          Speed:  33 Knots    

Primary Guns: 3 x Single 203mm/55 Mk71 (Rng: 15.8km / Reload: 5 sec / 180 deg: 12.0 sec / Fire: 14% / Damage 2,800 (HE) / 5,000 (AP)

Secondary Guns:  4 x Single 76.2/50 mm DP (Rng: 5km / DPS: 56)

Torpedoes: 2 x 2 533mm Mk17 30 deg fixed  (Speed: 66 Knots / Damage: 17,900 / Reload: 50 sec)

Consumables: Damage Control, Smoke, Speed Boost or Repair, Surveillance Radar II (7.5km / 20 sec)

 

The USS Hull is slow, it has only 2 torpedo tubes per side and they don't even turn. It is not particularly stealthy. It is not particularly agile. It's AA is lousy by US standards. It is relatively healthy, but insignificantly more so than the Gearing. It does have three things that make it deadly -- SMOKE, RADAR and those three 8-inch autocannons. If you give up speed boost, you can pick up repair -- nice but it also means that you are not running away from anything.

What class is this?  There are multiple USS Hull's.  One is a Farragut class, so obviously not a tier 10.  The next one is a late 1950's DD.

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23 minutes ago, Crucis said:

What class is this?  There are multiple USS Hull's.  One is a Farragut class, so obviously not a tier 10.  The next one is a late 1950's DD.

 

I think the OP is thinking of the 50’s DD that was modified in the 70’s to test a 8” gun system that was never deployed.  It had 1 test 8” gun as the only gun forward, I believe, so the 3 gun arrangement the OP is proposing is a paper concept.

The 8” test gun was a contemporary of the 5”/54 gun systems that were mounted on Spruance class DDs of that period.

Edited by hangglide42

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It's a Forrest Sherman with a hypothetical 8"/55 Mk71 armament in place of the original 127mm/54 Mk42s. The rest of the armament however reverts to the early Forrest Sherman fitment of 2x2 533mm tubes and 3" DP secondaries. The point isn't to duplicate history. The point is to introduce a DD which adds another dimension to WoW gameplay. A DD with the ability to citadel cruisers and smoke while having to deal with a torpedo armament that is a joke and being slower than many cruisers does that.

Giving it a choice between the 5 sec reload 8"/55 Mk71 and the 1.5 sec reload 5"/54 Mk42 may actually be interesting too.

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13 minutes ago, dwightlooi said:

It's a Forrest Sherman with a hypothetical 8"/55 Mk71 armament in place of the original 127mm/54 Mk42s. The rest of the armament however reverts to the early Forrest Sherman fitment of 2x2 533mm tubes and 3" DP secondaries. The point isn't to duplicate history. The point is to introduce a DD which adds another dimension to WoW gameplay. A DD with the ability to citadel cruisers and smoke while having to deal with a torpedo armament that is a joke and being slower than many cruisers does that.

Giving it a choice between the 5 sec reload 8"/55 Mk71 and the 1.5 sec reload 5"/54 Mk42 may actually be interesting too.

The Z-23 German T8 called, and it says it does everything the proposed Hull does much better, so why not buy it instead and get to seal club T6s while not breaking your bank to play?

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On 2/20/2018 at 11:19 PM, EAnybody said:

The Z-23 German T8 called, and it says it does everything the proposed Hull does much better, so why not buy it instead and get to seal club T6s while not breaking your bank to play?

I don't think so... those 150mms are nothing like these fast firing 8" guns. Also, unlike the Z-23 this actually has good smoke, decent detect, radar and repair. Do not under estimate something in smoke that can radar DDs and citadel cruisers. Yes, it's 1/3 to 1/4 the number of guns of a CA, but with a 5 second reload (4.2 boosted with mods and skill) its fast firing enough that you'll get a lot of shots off.

Think of it as a Pan Asian Tier X with big guns plus BOTH radar and smoke, but essentially no torpedoes and a really slow top speed. Also, you are slow enough that once committed you aren't running away from a fight.

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2 hours ago, dwightlooi said:

I don't think so... those 150mms are nothing like these fast firing 8" guns. Also, unlike the Z-23 this actually has good smoke, decent detect, radar and repair. Do not under estimate something in smoke that can radar DDs and citadel cruisers. Yes, it's 1/3 to 1/4 the number of guns of a CA, but with a 5 second reload (4.2 boosted with mods and skill) its fast firing enough that you'll get a lot of shots off.

Think of it as a Pan Asian Tier X with big guns plus BOTH radar and smoke, but essentially no torpedoes and a really slow top speed. Also, you are slow enough that once committed you aren't running away from a fight.

The MCLWG 8" is NOT a clone of the 8" Mk 16 on the Des Moines. It's VERY significantly inferior, as it had to have a much lighter weight shell to be able to be shoehorned into the space required.  It gave up virtually all the AP advantages of the Mk16, as the design was intended primarily for shore bombardment and against unarmored ships, so it emphasized HE capacity at the expense of the heavy shell requirement for good AP performance.

At T10, it's not gonna be citadelling any CAs except at close range.  And smoke firing at T10 is much less useful anymore.

The T8 Z-23 would have comparable detection to your theoretical T10 Forrest Sherman - which were 20% larger than the Gearings or the Z-23, so your proposed 7.6km detection is just fanboi fantasy.  At best, it would be equal to the Z-23 at 7.9km, and almost certainly game balanced out as higher.

Same goes for the idea that we'd have Radar/Smoke/Heal and big guns all on a single ship.  That's just fanboi speak, that's not even remotely likely in terms of game balance. The Hull never had 3 8" guns, and the adjustments to the hull to compensate for the massive increase in turret size says that it would have had 2 instead - each mount was 20% heavier than the 5" it replaced, and the additional magazine capacity required to house the larger shells in the same capacity would have eaten up the entire rest of the 3rd mount's space.

And there's no way a T10 would keep  the 2 x 5 torp tubes in combination with the other features.  In short, you're trying to cram what would be rationally a T12 ship as a T10. There's no possible way that ship could exist in this game as it did in real life.  It's a late 1960s ship. 

At the very best, you could maybe include it as something like this:

2 x 8" guns with 5 second reload, but sub-Pensacola-class shell performance (2800/4000 damage, 14% fire) at the very best due to the fact that the shells are FAR lighter weight than those shot by the WW2-designed 8" on the CAs.

Turret rotation in the 10 degree/second range (i.e 18-20 seconds to do a 180). 

Same AA.

1x5 torps centerline

Smoke, Radar, Speed boost.  No heal.

8km detection, 20k HP.  Same rudder shift as Gearing (3.3), but worse turning (it's longer) at 650m or 660m

 

At which point, the 150mm Z-23 would be able to do exactly what you want the T10 Hull to do, at two tiers lower.  Note that the Z-23 has FIVE 150mm guns with a 4 second reload and a 3k AP alpha.  Even in your fantasy version of 3 x 203mm x 5k @ 5 seconds, the Z-23 would be close in DPM:  180k vs 165k, and if we took the more likely actually balanced version above *(2 x 203mm x 4k @ 5 second), the Z-23 seriously out-DPMs it:  96k vs 165k.   And the Z-23 has no problem citadeling cruisers at the same range the Hull would - the only benefit the Hull would get would be the preferential angling penetration US AP gets.

 

Again, as I said, the Z-23 already does anything that your Fantasy Hull can do, at two tiers lower, without having to try to cram a T12 into T10.

Edited by EAnybody

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I didn't say 2x5 torps. I said 2x2 torps and not turreted ones at that. Meaning you have to turn the DD to aim them, the tubes don;t turn at all. Which is historical on the Forrest Shermans. No, the Hull did not have 3 x 8" guns. It was a trials ship with ONE. But were the Mk71 adopted it will replace the Mk42 127/54 turrents one for one. So, yes, the DDS retrofitted with the 8" will have three. That was the whole point!

BTW, your Z-23 has 6.7 sec reloads for the 150s.

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I find this discussion very interesting because I served on the real uss hull in the early 1970s when the put the 8 in on

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