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Dev Blog- Changes to Asashio and Harekaze

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8 minutes ago, MrEndeavour said:

Really wish they removed Asahio's one trick pony torps. 

What about 2 options?

The deepwater torps she has now, or 10km regular IJN torps.

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20 minutes ago, Hatework said:

What about 2 options?

The deepwater torps she has now, or 10km regular IJN torps.

The problem I see with the 10km regular IJN torps is that they'd be essentially the same as what's already on the Harekaze, which might make the two DDs too similar to encourage people to buy the Asashio.

What about using PA-like DWTs, i.e. can hit everything except DDs?  They wouldn't need to have the same stats all around, but just maintain the "everything except DDs part" and tweak the rest, and I think that they'd be good to go.

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32 minutes ago, MrEndeavour said:

Really wish they removed Asahio's one trick pony torps.

Or just get rid of gimmicks and power creep all together..

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Not sure what to think really. The fact that torpedoes are seen forever, once spotted made me wonder how effective these long range torps would be anyway.

 

As a DD if I see a radar ship on the enemy team, I know I have to play careful. If I'm a BB and see a Asashio I would look to use my screen more along with asking the CV to scout (which wouldn't seem a bad use of some aircraft with that particular threat). There does seem to be a massive fear of DDs raising off the bottom of the damage stats.

The Harekaze change; will anybody notice? I suppose some may use the stock guns.

 

Many thanks Renegade. :Smile_honoring:

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33 minutes ago, MrEndeavour said:

Really wish they removed Asahio's one trick pony torps. 

Same.  Much as I like playing IJN DD's, I don't like the concept of these torps.  Yes, they can utterly trash BBs.  But with a 20 km range, they encourage too much long range torp sniping.  For crying out loud, because they can only hit BBs and CVs, an Asashio could hide pretty far back as long as there were no BBs in front of him and just spam out torps, knowing that he couldn't hit his team's CAs and DDs.

I also dislike the ship type limitation because once there are no BBs to hit, what do you do? Start trying to find the enemy CV, or do more normal DD things like spotting and capping?  But the Asashio is a pretty normal IJN DD in terms of its guns, i.e. slow turrets and low RoF.  In short, if you have nothing to shoot at with your torps, it gets really unfun really fast.

I'd rather see 10-12km range, PA-like DWTs that hit everything except DDs, if they were going to go for a form of DWT.

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6 minutes ago, khorender_1 said:

Or just get rid of gimmicks and power creep all together..

I don't think that you can get rid of power creep entirely.  But I do think that they could stop with the gimmicks.  There are too many of them already.  Some gimmicks are pretty mild, like giving the Atago a Heal.  And then there's the Asashio, where its gimmick takes an IJN DD which are already pretty damned hit or miss due to torpedoes in general, and gives them these extremely limited target torps which turns the Asashio into a truly all or nothing DD.

 

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They are also reworking the control points on Northern Lights which makes me wonder if North will change as well. I'm just Glad they are moving D cap or the place where cruisers and battleships go to be useless for their team. 

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9 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Same.  Much as I like playing IJN DD's, I don't like the concept of these torps.  Yes, they can utterly trash BBs.  But with a 20 km range, they encourage too much long range torp sniping.  For crying out loud, because they can only hit BBs and CVs, an Asashio could hide pretty far back as long as there were no BBs in front of him and just spam out torps, knowing that he couldn't hit his team's CAs and DDs.

I also dislike the ship type limitation because once there are no BBs to hit, what do you do? Start trying to find the enemy CV, or do more normal DD things like spotting and capping?  But the Asashio is a pretty normal IJN DD in terms of its guns, i.e. slow turrets and low RoF.  In short, if you have nothing to shoot at with your torps, it gets really unfun really fast.

I'd rather see 10-12km range, PA-like DWTs that hit everything except DDs, if they were going to go for a form of DWT.

Doesn't that just make it a D-BB-D hybrid type ship; firing from afar with it's main weapons?

I probably wouldn't bother using it as I don't really get on with the stand back play, but some may look at this and say 'great just the kind of thing I'm looking for'.

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4 minutes ago, RedSeaBear said:

They are also reworking the control points on Northern Lights which makes me wonder if North will change as well. I'm just Glad they are moving D cap or the place where cruisers and battleships go to be useless for their team. 

Bear, given the layout of those 2 maps, I don't see how one justifies NOT having "D" cap on those maps.  Mind you, I'm not disagreeing that having BBs going to D is dumb.  But what's the point of that entire line of islands between C and D caps if not to create an area where a cap gets placed (i.e. D cap)?  It seems to me that if you want to get rid of D cap, then they should remove the entire line of islands between C and D caps.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Bear, given the layout of those 2 maps, I don't see how one justifies NOT having "D" cap on those maps.  Mind you, I'm not disagreeing that having BBs going to D is dumb.  But what's the point of that entire line of islands between C and D caps if not to create an area where a cap gets placed (i.e. D cap)?  It seems to me that if you want to get rid of D cap, then they should remove the entire line of islands between C and D caps.

Every map needs places for people to make tactical mistakes. While the D cap on North/Northern Lights is a dumb place for most cruisers and all battleships if the enemy went there your team had a slight advantage. The Trick is convincing your dumb cruisers and stupid battleships not to go there as well. If we removed every useless island that we might as well be playing every battle on Ocean. I suspect that even after the North/ern Lights D cap is removed ships will still sail that side of the map and their excuse will be, "I'm Flanking the enemy."

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3 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Doesn't that just make it a D-BB-D hybrid type ship; firing from afar with it's main weapons?

I probably wouldn't bother using it as I don't really get on with the stand back play, but some may look at this and say 'great just the kind of thing I'm looking for'.

I get what you're saying, WaveRider.  But it's really pretty dumb for a DD to be sitting out there at 16 or more km spamming torps like that, because even with these torps being really difficult to spot, the reality is that BBs can easily avoid them with some mild maneuvering without even realizing that there are torps headed their way.  And because of the range, they have quite a bit of time to choose to do so.

And I suppose that some might think that way, but frankly it seems like a really dumb way to think because your torp hit range will likely be abysmal, and you're in no position to do normal IJN DD things, i.e. using your excellent stealth to spot and cap.  

 

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3 minutes ago, RedSeaBear said:

Every map needs places for people to make tactical mistakes. While the D cap on North/Northern Lights is a dumb place for most cruisers and all battleships if the enemy went there your team had a slight advantage. The Trick is convincing your dumb cruisers and stupid battleships not to go there as well. If we removed every useless island that we might as well be playing every battle on Ocean. I suspect that even after the North/ern Lights D cap is removed ships will still sail that side of the map and their excuse will be, "I'm Flanking the enemy."

I'd rather just leave D on the map if the islands were removed.  

Frankly, I'm not a big fan of this map. (Side note: to me, it's a single map with two versions differentiated by lighting conditions.)  It's too much of a corridor map for my taste.  Too much like a WoT map.  I wish that they'd open it up just a little bit.  Perhaps get rid of most of those little islands just west of B cap.  Get rid of the tall islands between C and D caps.  Maybe keep a few smaller, lower islands between C and D caps (if D cap is to be removed).  In general, loosen up play on this map.  IMO, it's too damned like a WoT map, and needs to be loosened up.

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9 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I get what you're saying, WaveRider.  But it's really pretty dumb for a DD to be sitting out there at 16 or more km spamming torps like that, because even with these torps being really difficult to spot, the reality is that BBs can easily avoid them with some mild maneuvering without even realizing that there are torps headed their way.  And because of the range, they have quite a bit of time to choose to do so.

And I suppose that some might think that way, but frankly it seems like a really dumb way to think because your torp hit range will likely be abysmal, and you're in no position to do normal IJN DD things, i.e. using your excellent stealth to spot and cap.  

 

Like I say, not my bag, but for some who knows. As for the torp hit rate, many DDs sit between 6-10% anyway. Could it be much worse? :Smile_honoring:

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Yeah I think it's promotes passive camping play on both sides which this game really needs more of

If you're going to give it deep water torps make it like the Pan Asian maybe give it 15K just so it's cool enough to buy

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3 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Like I say, not my bag, but for some who knows. As for the torp hit rate, many DDs sit between 6-10% anyway. Could it be much worse? :Smile_honoring:

Uhhhh, yeah, I think it could.

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4 minutes ago, silverdahc said:

Yeah I think it's promotes passive camping play on both sides which this game really needs more of

If you're going to give it deep water torps make it like the Pan Asian maybe give it 15K just so it's cool enough to buy

I think that 15k may be too much.  Seems to me that somewhere around 10-12km seems like a good sweet spot.

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13 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Uhhhh, yeah, I think it could.

Not from what I've seen on the reviews, but I guess it's possible lol.

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4 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Not from what I've seen on the reviews, but I guess it's possible lol.

The review I watched was from Flamu, obviously a very good player.  And he wasn't launching at extreme ranges, except once.  (Once, he semi-blind fired at a BB that was really far away moving out of his spawn area, and flamu lead him properly and got a hit or 2.  But he had nothing else to fire at, so early in the battle.)  Flamu was usually launching from around 8-10 km, and getting a pretty good number of hits.  But if you're going to fire from 16+ km, you're almost by default going to get a lot fewer hits, because you're giving the enemy more time to make some random course change, which might not even be an anti-torp zig-zag.  it might just be the BB maneuvering his ship in a gun duel.  Hitting enemy ships with torps while they're in the middle of a gun duel can be very chancy at best, because good players are changing course a little bit here and there to angle their armor, make it a little harder for the enemy ship to get gun hits, etc.  Torpedo hits depend on the target ship being oblivious and sailing in a straight line just long enough for the torps to intercept the target ship at the exact right moment.

 

Another reason I'm not fond of the 20 km torps is that they increase the chance of misses continuing on to hit friendlies.  Now, obviously since they're BB (and CV) only, the number of friendlies that even get hit is reduced, but it's still a threat.  I guess it's a reason why I like 10-12 km  torps.  That's a good range for torps attacks.  Close enough to have a good chance of getting hits.  Far enough to be outside of concealment range.  And not so much "excess" range thus reducing the risk of misses running for a long time and into friendlies.

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Would deep water be OP if DDs and planes cannot detect them? (by proxy)

Edited by NeutralState

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

The problem I see with the 10km regular IJN torps is that they'd be essentially the same as what's already on the Harekaze, which might make the two DDs too similar to encourage people to buy the Asashio.

What about using PA-like DWTs, i.e. can hit everything except DDs?  They wouldn't need to have the same stats all around, but just maintain the "everything except DDs part" and tweak the rest, and I think that they'd be good to go.

They wouldn't be the same. Harekaze uses the T7 Type 90s, Asashio would use the T8 Type 93s. The T8 IJN torpedoes are leagues better than the T7 ones, despite what the stat screen says.

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Aww... I liked the idea of a Dedicated DD killing off BB's that sit still like farts but at the same time was more or less 100% defenseless against cruisers.

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7 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

Aww... I liked the idea of a Dedicated DD killing off BB's that sit still like farts but at the same time was more or less 100% defenseless against cruisers.

Really?  I hate the idea.  Too GD gimmicky!  Give me ships that feel more (sorta-kinda) realistic feeling, not these god damned gimmicky pieces of crap.

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7 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

Aww... I liked the idea of a Dedicated DD killing off BB's that sit still like farts but at the same time was more or less 100% defenseless against cruisers.

You would.

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