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NoZoupForYou

Asashio Preview - Controversy? What Controversy?

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So this ship has us CCs split down the middle.  Some love her, some hate her.  I fall in the former.  We all agree she needs some tweaking and I’m sure she’ll get it.  Very much still a work in progress.  Here are my thoughts.  The skinny: Make torps base 16KM and knock off some HP damage.  Maybe make guns better a tad.  The concealment is great.  She can cap and scout.  Players that scout and cap will still do it in this ship.  

 

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6 minutes ago, bubbleboy264 said:

This ship is pure cancer, nothing more nothing less. 

A more constructive answer would be to propose a solution to modify the ship that takes it down to perhaps a bad cold, or a lingering cough at most.  This kind of comment doesn't really contribute anything to the discussion i suspect Zoup is trying to have.

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I think they could make her smoke better in exchange for nerfed torps. It might help her disengage from cruisers or work better with teammates.

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This ship is in a world of crap if it ever has to fight anything but bbs, which is gonna be quite often. 

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Unless MM starts taking specific ships into account instead of just type, then all-or-nothing style ships (i.e. Asashio) will ALWAYS be a bad idea. 

P.S. MM will never change to the method stated above. It would mess up their analytics for ship balance. 

 

 

Edited by Kombat_W0MBAT
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24 minutes ago, pewpewpew42 said:

I think they could make her smoke better in exchange for nerfed torps. It might help her disengage from cruisers or work better with teammates.

 

49 minutes ago, NoZoupForYou said:

So this ship has us CCs split down the middle.  Some love her, some hate her.  I fall in the former.  We all agree she needs some tweaking and I’m sure she’ll get it.  Very much still a work in progress.  Here are my thoughts.  The skinny: Make torps base 16KM and knock off some HP damage.  Maybe make guns better a tad.  The concealment is great.  She can cap and scout.  Players that scout and cap will still do it in this ship.  

 

So if they took the torpedo range down to 16 kilometers and better smoke how would it be so OP?

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Based on what I've read so far, Asashio is the way WG gets submarines into the game without putting them in the game (and last years April Fools Day port ship doesn't count).

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I'm of the opinion that Asashio would have been fine with separate TRB and Smoke Consumables, in addition to Speed Boost. Leave her with only the standard 10km torpedoes but identical gun performance to Shiratsuyu. It'd be pretty safe, and the main selling point would be that she has separate TRB and Smoke, which other IJN DDs lost as part of balance changes.


Or in a completely novel idea, a new Consumable. One that takes the Smoke slot's place, but leaves TRB alone. It specifically changes DW torpedoes into regular shallower ones, so Asashio's torpedoes would go from ultra-stealthy, 20km, anti-BB/CV only torps to standard 20km, high-visibility, but will hit everything torpedoes. It only lasts for 20 seconds; enough time to line up the torpedoes and launch them in a non-DWT state, and has a CD of 1:30 (standard) or 1:00 (Premium). However, you get a maximum of 6 charges (7 w/ Premium, 8 w/ Premium + Skill), enough to use when there's only cruisers and DDs left in play.

This is intended to allow players to start with DWTs as decoys/panic torps that may cause DDs and cruisers to just ignore it, and sail straight into the second volley, which are actually standard torpedoes. Of course, Asashio's torpedoes might need to be reduced to 15km range for both DWT and Consumable Non-DWT forms. By allowing players to replace Smoke with this consumable, it changes Asashio into a dedicated torpedo boat rather than an anti-BB/CV only torpedo boat. As for a consumable name, "Shallow Depth Setting" seems pretty straightforward.

Assuming they even do the Consumable idea, it also opens up alternative consumables for DWT-bearing ships (except CVs and cruisers), replacing their smoke in exchange for being able to hit all ships with their torpedoes.

Edited by YamatoA150

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13 minutes ago, YamatoA150 said:

By allowing players to replace Smoke with this consumable, it changes Asashio into a dedicated torpedo boat rather than an anti-BB/CV only torpedo boat. As for a consumable name, "Shallow Depth Setting" seems pretty straightforward.

Assuming they even do the Consumable idea, it also opens up alternative consumables for DWT-bearing ships (except CVs and cruisers), replacing their smoke in exchange for being able to hit all ships with their torpedoes.

I agree. Being a torp boat being able to only kill BB's means your going to stay away at 10 km plus and just spam torps. Which means any other ship class you encounter is going to have you for lunch. too much all or nothing.

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Asashio is a bad dedign for the game, yes its a strong ship, but only for the player that is playing the ship, for both his team and the enemy BBs this is a bad ship. 

 

For the enemy BBs, good luck, because you are going to  need it. Those torps gives you zero reaction, if the enemy DD wants to sink you he will, and there is nothing you can do about that. Super stealth, high speed, high damage nukes? WG might want to add guided missile next time, because those torps are almost there.

 

For Asashios team, its also bad. Asashio is bad at what DDs are good at, scout and play the objectives. Since you cant hit enemy DDs or cruiser with torps, and you guns are garbage (even worse than "normal" IJN guns) and you are a slow DD you have zero cap pressure, the enemy can just rush you and kill you or force you of the objective/position.

 

While you are right that selfish players will always play in a selfish way, we dont need to reward that kind of gameplay, or give them a excuse to play like that.

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16 minutes ago, Xlap said:

Asashio is a bad dedign for the game, yes its a strong ship, but only for the player that is playing the ship, for both his team and the enemy BBs this is a bad ship. 

 

For the enemy BBs, good luck, because you are going to  need it. Those torps gives you zero reaction, if the enemy DD wants to sink you he will, and there is nothing you can do about that. Super stealth, high speed, high damage nukes? WG might want to add guided missile next time, because those torps are almost there.

 

For Asashios team, its also bad. Asashio is bad at what DDs are good at, scout and play the objectives. Since you cant hit enemy DDs or cruiser with torps, and you guns are garbage (even worse than "normal" IJN guns) and you are a slow DD you have zero cap pressure, the enemy can just rush you and kill you or force you of the objective/position.

 

While you are right that selfish players will always play in a selfish way, we dont need to reward that kind of gameplay, or give them a excuse to play like that.

Except that's exactly how a lot of  BB pl;layers play it now anyway stand back out of range and blast.........................................................................That's when they even do that   'Note I didn't say ALL I SAID A LOT'

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I've had SEVERAL cases where I've run into deep water torps with zero chance of reaction...now you can spam them from such a long distance and never be spotted...and you have a reload boast...

CV's are rare, so you can forget about spotting this thing. 

Just wait until the trolls get her...3 of these little buggers...wall of skill indeed...

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What I dislike  mostly about this ship is how luck reliant it is. You need to land in a battle with many BBs, and in addition move to the flank with the most BBs and the flank with the least DD coverage to do your work  properly and and and... To top this all off, 3 Asashios with torpedo boost can lay 46 fish to some unlucky fella. What is a T6 BB supposed to do about that? While some tweaks can mitigate a few of the issues, I think the whole ship as a concept is flawed.

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12 minutes ago, shadowsrmine said:

Except that's exactly how a lot of  BB pl;layers play it now anyway stand back out of range and blast.........................................................................That's when they even do that   'Note I didn't say ALL I SAID A LOT'

Yes, we have idiots that play like that, and they are wrong. But one mistake dont justify another mistake. If those torps come into the game in they current state, thye will punish the good BB players more than the bad ones, the good BB players are closer to the enemy and have even less time to react. 

 

If WG want to "fix" BBs that sit in the back and snipe, than reduce XP eran for damage and increasse for potential/actual damage taken. By introducing hard counters like that, that leave no counter play, you wont solve any issue but you make players frustrated. Its just a idiot idea. 

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17 minutes ago, Xlap said:

Yes, we have idiots that play like that, and they are wrong. But one mistake dont justify another mistake. If those torps come into the game in they current state, thye will punish the good BB players more than the bad ones, the good BB players are closer to the enemy and have even less time to react. 

 

If WG want to "fix" BBs that sit in the back and snipe, than reduce XP eran for damage and increasse for potential/actual damage taken. By introducing hard counters like that, that leave no counter play, you wont solve any issue but you make players frustrated. Its just a idiot idea. 

And how would changing range to 16 kilometers and buffing smoke hurt so much more than the DD's that already get 16 kilometer's there are one or  two you know??

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5 minutes ago, shadowsrmine said:

And how would changing range to 16 kilometers and buffing smoke hurt so much more than the DD's that already get 16 kilometer's there are one or  two you know??

DDs that already have long range torps can also hit other DDs and cruisers and not only BBs, those DDs also have better guns to help contesting caps/objectives.  Also they torps leave room to counterplay and reaction time. 

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18 minutes ago, Xlap said:

DDs that already have long range torps can also hit other DDs and cruisers and not only BBs, those DDs also have better guns to help contesting caps/objectives.  Also they torps leave room to counterplay and reaction time. 

And BB's have gun's that gun's that can hit targets from 16-20 kilometers........................I know because I've been hit that far out in fact their RoF is just a bit slower than my Baltimore's not much mind you just a bit,   Just checked  Baltimore's RoF is 4 shot's per minute typical  BB  RoF  is 2  shot's per minute and her gun's are much much smaller  come to think of it so is the New Orleans speed of movement isn't much better on either as well

Edited by shadowsrmine

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2 minutes ago, shadowsrmine said:

And BB's have gun's that gun's that can hit targets from 16-20 kilometers........................I know because I've been hit that far out

As i pointed earlier, one mistake doesnt justify another one. Is that so hard to get? Players that snipe from 20 km are wrong and their impact into a battle is small. Dont try to justify a poor design of a ship with a poor gameplay from some players, its a dumb thing to do and its bad for the overall game. 

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I expect this ship to perform worse than the average shimakaze does currently.  I think shortening the torpedo range (16 km before speed perk sounds good) and improving the guns (especially rotation rate) would go a long way towards improving this ship's versatility and usefulness. As it is, once enemy battleships are dead, this ship is nothing but  dead weight.

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2 minutes ago, Hatework said:

I expect this ship to perform worse than the average shimakaze does currently.  I think shortening the torpedo range (16 km before speed perk sounds good) and improving the guns (especially rotation rate) would go a long way towards improving this ship's versatility and usefulness. As it is, once enemy battleships are dead, this ship is nothing but  dead weight.

Engage Ramming Speed  Ma'am:Smile_playing:

Edited by shadowsrmine
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8 minutes ago, shadowsrmine said:

Engage Ramming Speed  Ma'am:Smile_playing:

Lol fair point.  It has at least one torpedo that can hit any ship in the game.

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21 minutes ago, Xlap said:

As i pointed earlier, one mistake doesnt justify another one. Is that so hard to get? Players that snipe from 20 km are wrong and their impact into a battle is small. Dont try to justify a poor design of a ship with a poor gameplay from some players, its a dumb thing to do and its bad for the overall game. 

It might encourage more movement even the best  BB players are stationary far too much  PS  Perhaps your right take a bit of damage off too

Edited by shadowsrmine
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@NoZoupForYou 

For once I'm gonna agree with you. Personally I have no dog in this fight, I'm terrible at IJN DDs and have no urge to play them. On the other hand I've been at the mercy of a good IJN DD player so I can understand where they are coming from when people scream about walls of cancer.

 

As it stands IJN DDs are pretty bad overall. Asashio is a step in the right direction I agree, but the limited target selection is bad and is what ruins AP DBs on USN CVs. Ontop of a t10 CV using t8 weaponry.. FFS WG.

They could probably code it so that cruisers take maybe 1/4 or 1/5 of the stated DWT torpedo damage per hit. So they could "tank" the torp hits easier than a BB. Might make it more viable to run DWT



This could be the buff IJN DDs need to be honest. They are simply too easy to negate or out perform otherwise with other ships.
Also it means that the average player might start defaulting to hydro now instead of DFAA. ;)
So I guess that is a dog in the fight. Release her with some tweaks and force people to take hydro or vigilance. No more AA builds with no downsides. Make IJN DDs great again.

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17 minutes ago, shadowsrmine said:

It might encourage more movement even the best  BB players are stationary far too much  PS  Perhaps your right take a bit of damage off too

Ok, now you are messing things, a stationary/slow moving sihp and a max range snipe are very different things. Also, we already have the tools to counter that in game: HE spam, normal torps and flanking the enemy. They all work really well. 

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