Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
Uncle_Lou

Tips for torps?

20 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Members
467 posts
4,878 battles

So for whatever reason, suddenly I have virtually stopped hitting anything with torpedoes.  I finished out the Kagero and Z-23 and moved up to the Yugumo and Z-46 and my torp hit rate is roughly half of what it was.  This is trickling down to my lower tier DDs as well.  It seems like the enemy has ESP and they know the instant I launch a salvo of torps and turn 180 degrees.  If I wait for the turn, the torps get halfway there and the enemy reverses a second time.  I've tried launching one set and saving the second, only to have the enemy zig zag and totally miss all my torps. :(  I don't rely on the lead guide as anything more than a base reference; I try to anticipate speed or heading changes.  Apparently, however my anticipation is terrible lately.  I know the ships are decent and I can be better, but I'm looking for any tips or tricks to help judge what an enemy is likely to do so I can start connecting again with torps.

Danke!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,218
[SYN]
Members
3,658 posts
20,032 battles

Take some time and be patient.  It's tempting but don't send your torps as soon as they are ready.  Observe the target for a while to try and deduce where they want to go, how often they change speed and course and where their team is heading. 

I pay particular attention to the smoke stacks which helps and send my first set of torps to try and corral them into the second.

Good luck it can be very frustrating!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,129
[KWF]
Members
3,745 posts
5,417 battles

I can only give 2 tips regarding DDs, though im sure you know them. First is that most enemies expect torps to come from the front, so I would say looking for openings to torp enemies from unexpected angles could help. Secondly, try to find your torp range sweetspot. After taking into account Radar, DDs etc, dont be scared to close up the range to guarantee at least a few hits. Thats my 2 cents anyway, hope you have better luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
336
[CZS]
Members
842 posts
8,005 battles

The other thing is that torp hit rates are virtually dependent on your opponent's skill, once you reach reasonable proficiency with torpedoing.

That is, once you get pretty good using torpedoes (and, given you're at the Yugumo, I'm gonna assume you are), how much you hit your opponents is almost exclusively up to them.

If they potato, or just screw up, you'll have a great game.  If they're good, well, you're in for a lonnnggggggg night.  You're likely just in a string of bad luck (or good opponents :-)

 

That's the fundamental issue with torpedoes in this game: the huge variation in per-game performance due to torpedoes relying primarily on incompetent opponents to land (as the available tools to avoid torpedoes are plethora, and avoiding them continues to be easier and easier as a person's skill increases, whereas the ability to land them pretty much plateaus).

Edited by EAnybody
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
111
[VNES]
Members
456 posts
7,239 battles
23 minutes ago, EAnybody said:

The other thing is that torp hit rates are virtually dependent on your opponent's skill, once you reach reasonable proficiency with torpedoing.

That is, once you get pretty good using torpedoes (and, given you're at the Yugumo, I'm gonna assume you are), how much you hit your opponents is almost exclusively up to them.

If they potato, or just screw up, you'll have a great game.  If they're good, well, you're in for a lonnnggggggg night.  You're likely just in a string of bad luck (or good opponents :-)

 

That's the fundamental issue with torpedoes in this game: the huge variation in per-game performance due to torpedoes relying primarily on incompetent opponents to land (as the available tools to avoid torpedoes are plethora, and avoiding them continues to be easier and easier as a person's skill increases, whereas the ability to land them pretty much plateaus).

Torpedoes has never been hard to dodge, especially IJN ones, a full boardsided BB can dodge shima torps without any prior information if he started to turn right when the torps are spotted. If he turns the wrong way, you maybe get 1 torp on the bow but that's it. Go play PADD/Asashio to enjoy how REAL torpedoes are like. Other IJN DD torps are no threat, what so ever

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,035
Members
4,729 posts
8,265 battles

OP are you getting close enough?  I am NO torping expert but from observation I see soooo many DD players try and torp from ranges that are simply too far away to expect to hit unless the target is just out to lunch. I kinda doubt this is your issue but it sure is for many players who run DDs. My 2 cents. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
112
[RUST]
Beta Testers
514 posts
4,682 battles

Going for targets that are otherwise engaged helps.  A battleship that's squared up against your team will rarely make any major course changes besides possibly reversing, and seeing torps coming from the side will force them to either turn and risk citadels or just eat them.  Otherwise it's just about trying to predict what the enemy will do or how they'll react to what your team is doing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,660
[FOXEH]
Beta Testers
12,556 posts
18,079 battles

Don't turn off your torps after you fire, leave them on, firing aid and all. Players with the "How many folks are targeting me" skill see that number flicker down and back up and immediately change direction. Leave your torps on and they get fewer warnings that you have fired. It's another in game cheat so BB drivers can compete.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
627 posts
8,271 battles

There are high percentage shots, and low percentage shots. Are you taking more low percentage shots as you get higher in tier? I've seen that happen, especially in radar-heavy games. 

 

An example of a low percentage shot is bow-on against a highly maneuverable opponent. Or a stern chaser from too close to max range. Or any shot >10km as the spread opens so much, or taken at max range with long running times. Even a juicy target can be low percentage if it has a spotter plane up.

 

A high percentage shot is a broadside target at closer range. Maybe a bow-on shot against someone that turns like a slug. 

 

Then there are the blind luck shots. These are launching into smoke, or at a particular spot (an island that CA's might hide behind). These don't necessarily have targets when their fired, but they aim at denying an area to the enemy and you catch someone napping at times.

 

Even a potato can evade with a low percentage shot, and an expert can get caught by a high percentage shot.

 

If you're taking a lot of low percentage shots and missing, don't sweat it. If you're taking a lot of high percentage shots and missing, that might be something else. 

 

Zig-Zaggers can be had if you watch for a pattern and have time to take advantage of it. Very few are truly unpredictable. 

 

There was a study done after WWII that said the IJN hit rate for torps was 6%, and that the USN rate was just over 4%. I figure anything over those is gravy. Anything above server average is certainly gravy.

 

And spotter planes do circles. If you can, launch just before they're right between you and the target. Hopefully, the spotter will be on the other side of the target ship when your torps arrive. 

 

Edit: had to correct the auto-correct

Edited by Grflrgl
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
115
[C-1]
[C-1]
Members
437 posts
7,878 battles

Two things to remember:

1: There is NO a guarantee that you will ever hit a ship with your torps. Though mathematically speaking you HAVE to eventually get a hit in if you throw enough out there. <yeah, my torp accuracy is probably about -1% by now.

2: You CAN actually increase your chances of hitting a target though.

 

The first one has to do with the situation. Some players are truly "that gud" at evading torps. Some ships are also just simply equipped at spotting them early and can respond fast enough. Unless you are running the Shimakaze and her unholy 200,000,000 hyperbole torp setup, one or two salvos simply wont be enough unless there is something that distracts, or otherwise causes that target player or ship to mess up.

 

The second is where you can improve your chances to hit (even against those who are good). Remember that those players are going to do one of two things, they are either going to slowdown and/or zigzag; completely evading your torps "nearly" every time. Or they are going turn towards or away from your torps and attempt to thread their ships between the individual torpedoes.

 

A Zigzaging player that slows down from time to time is actually following the official WW2 doctrine of evading torps and that makes for an incredibly difficult target. Consider them either A: Drunk or B: a good player and you might want to simply find something else to go after. OR you can try to gauge their timing/responses. Some people actually time their movements. Try to figure out his/her pattern. "He turns for 10 seconds, then turns back for another 10 seconds, before slowing down, and then speeding up". <A lot of times, they have some repetitive action that might be exploitable. But remember, if you see a zigzagging target that slows down a lot and/or speeds up a lot, those players are playing with an evasive mindset and that makes your job really really hard.

 

A: Luckily, the majority don't do all that and simply end up having to turn away or towards your torps. This is where you simply need to stagger your shots a little. Start off with a wide torp spread. And then immediately follow up with a narrow spread aimed at where you think they will be if they attempted to avoid the first round of torps.

As they try to thread between the gaps of the first couple torpedoes, it will be nearly impossible to avoid the second tightly-grouped torps. <You can also use this tactic using a ally's torps. Remember that the enemy doesn't actually want to be hit by torps so will usually attempt to slip between them or limit just how many torps hit their ship.

B: Another is to fire just before the torpedo target reticle, where they might try to stop and one where the target reticle is actually pointing. Usually, they are going max speed anyways so it's not likely that they will be going faster than that (though you should attempt to gauge if they have the ability to speed up). Any DD with three sets of torps should have it pretty easy. Simply fire where the ship is at, ahead of the ship, and where the reticle is aiming. <Shima fricken Kaze can do it.

C: Get in closer. That targeting reticle is showing you where you need to aim. Use it as a guide but remember that anywhere from the ship TO the reticle is where that ship will be after travel time (assuming that the ship is moving at full speed). The closer to the ship you get, the less time it takes for those torps to get to the target, and the less time that target has to decide to simply turn at random. Firing your torps at 20km means that they usually have 10 whole minutes to be moving in a straight line to meet your torps. While firing them closer to the target means that they only need to be moving in a straight line for a minute or two ; which IS actually normal. Try to keep your torpedo's travel time as low as possible and thus reduce the chances that the enemy simply turns to stay on the map.

 

... And F (for fk it): Run up on that sucker and try to get those torps in at point blank range. Yeah. You'za gonna die. But at least you can say you torp'd something... might take a couple tries.

 

A good thing to always take into consideration is the Nations specific quirks (British ships start moving very quickly, but can't stop easily. Russian and German ships don't turn all that well compared to the other nations, the French have a speed boost that can get them past the torpedo reticle if you fired just before they used it), Consider the strengths of the ship firing the torps (some DD's are actually better designed to use their guns or to go after other DD's and simply spot the enemy. In addition, torpedo detection ranges vary per nation; the Japanese torpedoes will be detected further away while the US torpedoes are only detected much closer), and consider the target ships stats (US and British cruisers are practically designed to eat DD's for breakfast. Leave them alone as best you can and focus on larger targets that have less maneuverability).

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
467 posts
4,878 battles

I do try to get as close as possible, factoring in my detection range, spotter aircraft, radar, etc before launching torps.  If my target appears to be going fairly straight and at constant speed I will usually split my salvos, one ahead of and one behind the predictor line.  I have launched salvos at choke points or areas I know ships are likely to pass through, though results are largely luck in those cases. 

It may be that being at tier 9 there are simply more players who are cognizant at some level that torpedoes may be on the way and are very adept at changing speed and/or direction frequently.  There may be more players running Vigilance as well.  It just seems like every time I have a "perfect" shot lined up and launch, the enemy immediately changes course.  Its as if they are getting an alert that I've fired...  I know it doesn't work that way, but it is frustrating nonetheless.  Especially after having good success with Fubuki, Akatsuki, and Kagero.  My tier 9 torpedo hit rates are down a few points to ~5% ish, and my average damage is WAY down vs previous tiers.  Small sample size yet, so I'm hoping I've just hit a string of bad luck/good players.  Appreciate all the tips!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,571 posts
6,979 battles
2 hours ago, Uncle_Lou said:

Its as if they are getting an alert that I've fired...

I believe this was mentioned above, but it's very possible that they are.  Assuming your opponent is running the Priority Target commander skill, it's a pretty well known exploit that you can get an indication of when torpedoes are launched at you when that number suddenly drops by one, then goes back up by one a few seconds later--PT only registers when you are being targeted by guns, and not by torpedo; you can offset that somewhat by randomly switching targets/weapons even when you aren't firing, and/or just keeping your torp reticle up all the time.  Combine that fact with the prevalence of spotter planes and hydro, and high tier torpedo strikes basically come down to either spamming so many fish into an area that at least one almost has to hit, or getting into some serious mind games with your opponents (plus of course those one or two people each battle who haven't got the memo yet).  The big issue with the Yugumo in particular is that you don't have enough torpedoes available to saturate an area (unless you run the reload booster), and even when you sneak some past the myriad of things that might spot them, the torps still get spotted early enough that any target paying even slight attention can dodge them.  I actually ran Torpedo Acceleration on my commander when I was slogging through Yugumo, but radar was a lot less prevalent then so losing the range didn't hurt as much.

If you have a replay or two available I'd be happy to take a look at it and see if anything jumps out which could maybe be improved on.  Not that I'm a unicum torpedo shooter or anything, but I'm pretty good at the theory if not always the practice. :Smile_Default:

Edited by Harv72b

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
265
[DENY]
Members
540 posts
9,330 battles

A few tips.

1. Watch for planes, they do spot your torps and make them easier to dodge.

2. Anticipate what the target will do. For example, I got a devastating strike on a French CA that ambushed when I was at low health and he was full health. He came around an island at speed, and I could have torped in front of him, but I anticipated that he'd slow so my torps would go in front, so instead my torps hit right as he came to a stop and he had no chance to speed up and avoid.

3. Pretend every target has Priority Target. When a DD targets a ship with PT and switches to torpedoes, the target count drops, then increases by 1 when the torps are launched. Smart players use this to anticipate when a DD launches torps and starts taking evasive maneuvers. Bait the target. Switch to torps than quickly back to guns, as if you are launching torps but you are not. Watch how the ship reacts. If no reaction, and you have time, repeat the process a couple of times, then launch. If the target starts reacting, keep harassing them with the target lock drop so they have no idea when you are launching torps. Much harder for the target to deal damage when occupied dodging no existent torps, and when you do launch torps, use the previous patterns you observed them taking. And continue to fake launch to disguise the real launch.

3 is not required at lower levels, but certainly is at higher levels.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
849
[CVA16]
Members
4,299 posts
13,305 battles
3 hours ago, Xanthro said:

When a DD targets a ship with PT and switches to torpedoes, the target count drops, then increases by 1 when the torps are launched. Smart players use this to anticipate when a DD launches torps and starts taking evasive maneuvers.

Lately I've been using this to mess with the enemy. When I'm in stealth mode I will target different ships that I don't intend to shoot at.  Switch to torps when I know they are out of range or I'm out of torps (usefull for gauging speed and direction anyway). Hoping to make them evade into allies guns or get tired of evading when there are no torps so quit looking at the PT indicator so close.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,827
[CUTER]
WoWS Community Contributors
3,213 posts
12,766 battles

Best torp guide I have found to date.

Get good positions to get the broadside of enemy ships.  Often you can use allied ships to lock an enemy into an angle then move to torp it. 

Eventually you get a feel how each ship moves in the water.  With this understanding you can accurately torp ships that make radical turns much in the same way you can target a ship in a hard turn more easily.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
34 posts
1,694 battles

I would add that it pays off to zoom in on the smoke stack of your target to make sure they are running full speed before you gauge your shot.  If they are running 2/3rds and you shoot at the predictor line, they will sometimes speed up and outrun your torps.  

Edited by Reckun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
166
[90TH]
[90TH]
Members
294 posts
16,664 battles

Not sure if this will help but here is a match where I had 23 torp hits

 

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
627 posts
8,271 battles
On 2/19/2018 at 7:16 AM, EAnybody said:

The other thing is that torp hit rates are virtually dependent on your opponent's skill, once you reach reasonable proficiency with torpedoing.

That is, once you get pretty good using torpedoes (and, given you're at the Yugumo, I'm gonna assume you are), how much you hit your opponents is almost exclusively up to them.

If they potato, or just screw up, you'll have a great game.  If they're good, well, you're in for a lonnnggggggg night.  You're likely just in a string of bad luck (or good opponents :-)

 

That's the fundamental issue with torpedoes in this game: the huge variation in per-game performance due to torpedoes relying primarily on incompetent opponents to land (as the available tools to avoid torpedoes are plethora, and avoiding them continues to be easier and easier as a person's skill increases, whereas the ability to land them pretty much plateaus).

 

I doubt you remember this, EA, but we had a little encounter about a week ago that brought this into focus.

 

I was in one of my first games in the Kagero (5th or 6th game maybe), and you were in a French cruiser, if I remember correctly. I ran wide and got behind your lines. You, two BBs and a DD were trying to cap the zone that I ran wide of, and you're two BB's parked behind an island. I unleashed torpedo hell upon them (and you...TRB). I sank one of the BBs and hit the other, but you managed to evade. You also headed straight at me. What followed was an 8 minute duel. 

 

Folks, I'm a DD main and I've been chased by plenty of CAs, but this was one for the record books for me. Every time I let fly a volley of torpedoes, EA turned as if he could see them from 8km away. This guy is a zig-zag expert.

 

It took every trick in the book to stay in that fight. I even set a smoke screen that I didn't use, just to throw you off and change my angle of attack (never underestimate the value of a decoy smoke screen). I could not come up with a pattern in your zig-zags. Finally, I just left my torpedo targeting on you and didn't shut it off, so you couldn't tell when I might or might not have launched at you. I even had to time my shots to make sure your spotter plane was on the wrong side of your ship as my torps approached. After all that, I did manage to hit you with two torpedoes.

 

The moral of this story, for everyone else, is that it is possible to hit even an expert player with your torpedoes if you throw enough at them and use all your tricks and skills. But the thing is, this little exercise took both of us out of the battle for a long time. And my team was more inept than his, so EA's team got the win. (And parking an Edinburgh with radar in a cap as the ninja Kagero approaches, really didn't help my cause any. I thought I was the only one that ran the Eddy with radar.) You're right, it made for a long night, but it was a heck of a lot of fun too!

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
336
[CZS]
Members
842 posts
8,005 battles

Thanks for the complement.  I don't remember that specific one, unfortunately. I had a similar experience chasing a Z-46 in a New Orleans, though, recently. I lost that duel too, because he had a non-trivial HP advantage (low on my part, mostly healthy on his), and the NO's guns aren't fast enough firing to hit reliably, while the Z46 has excellent ROF and I'm a much bigger target.  In that case, that was a straight up gun duel for most of 4 minutes, not a hide-and-seek one like ours.  But there again, my primary goal was to keep that Z-46 from capping again or torping one of our less able (charitably) low-health BBs, and we won on points because it took him so long to kill me.

As a heavy DD and CA player, it helps to know the capabilities of both your and your opponent's ship, and the strategies you can pull. And, specifically, in a CA, if you're engaged in that kind of duel, the key is threefold:

  • DO NOT be predictable in course - run at 3/4ths speed for 5 seconds regularly. Don't zig-zag, more look like a spastic seizure patient. But plot your overall course based on where you think the DD WILL be, not WAS or IS.
  • Get inside your opponent's head:  by that, I mean look at the position on the map, and think about where YOU'D run to (or do) if you were in the DD's position.  Which is why the smoke screen distraction didn't work on me:  I looked at that and said:  He's too smart to stay there and let me close on him, because he knows I'm good enough to win a close-in duel. He'll use it as a reason to break contact and run off somewhere else and try to stab me in the back while I'm distracted.  Similarly, the torp direction is a real good indicator of where your opponent WAS, so take that into account.
  • Remember that your primary mission is to DRIVE OFF the DD, not kill him. Making him run from you is more important (particularly late-game) than killing him, because while he's running from you, he can't do anything else useful.

And last, for CA drivers:  KNOW WHEN TO QUIT and go back to other things.  That's hard, and I still overdo it regularly.  Once you've driven off the DD to somewhere it will take them minutes to get back into good position, you've won.

From the DD's perspective:

  • Get to know your opponent over a minute, and assess how good they are. Honestly, if they're really good, DON'T FIGHT - disengage.  Living to fight another day is more important than killing one ship, and you've got other stuff to do, too, that the CA is preventing you from doing.
  • If you're gonna fight (or you have to), don't use your torps all at once. Space them out 10-15 seconds between each launch, and use the second spread (or third one) as a "predictive"  one.  Say to yourself:  That CA will see these first ones, and dodge them - how do I place the last spread into the space where he'll be after dodging my first set?
  • Pull tricks like @Grflrgl: use your smoke to distract, then move in an unpredictable direction. Same goes for islands - intentionally get spotted for a few seconds, then move in a different direction than which you were spotted going in.
  • Flip back and forth between the torp and guns regularly. Leave each on for a random time. That completely distracts the CA player (who WILL have the Priority Target ability), and makes PT virtually useless for torp warning.
  • Be aware that PT will tell the CA driver VERY useful information when it comes to map positioning. If you leave his detection distance, that's information the CA driver will now know about your possible positions. Losing detection because of islands or smoke also leaks info to your opponent.  And yeah, if you're up against someone who actually mounts RPF on a CA, just run.  Because they're almost certainly very good, and in a 1:1 duel, RPF is a VERY nasty tool to use against you.
Edited by EAnybody
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
576
[-GPS-]
Members
2,883 posts
32,362 battles
On 2/19/2018 at 9:25 AM, dmckay said:

OP are you getting close enough?  I am NO torping expert but from observation I see soooo many DD players try and torp from ranges that are simply too far away to expect to hit unless the target is just out to lunch. I kinda doubt this is your issue but it sure is for many players who run DDs. My 2 cents. 

Yeah, just because you have 16 km torps doesn’t mean that you should launch at that range.  Ideally you want to be just outside detection range and torp at a ship traveling perpendicular to the path your torps will take.  

You need to learn which ships have radar, what radar range is for each, and where they are on the map.  

You also need to know which ships may have hydro. T8-10German BBs always have Hydro. USN cruisers typically take Defensive AA Instead, but not always. IJN cruisers are a mixed bag, but no IJN or USN BBs have hydro. 

Pay attention to planes. For reasons known only to WG, if a plane spots your torps anywhere along their path, they stay spotted forever. (I didn’t know this for the longest time...)

On 2/19/2018 at 10:52 AM, Umikami said:

Don't turn off your torps after you fire, leave them on, firing aid and all. Players with the "How many folks are targeting me" skill see that number flicker down and back up and immediately change direction. Leave your torps on and they get fewer warnings that you have fired. It's another in game cheat so BB drivers can compete.

Don’t do anything after you launch to let your target know you’re there.  This includes switching back to guns, with target still locked, shooting, smoking, or talking too loud  ;)  I frequently tap X while looking at another ship, then go back to guns. This unlocks your target so his # doesn’t go up.  Sometimes I’ll cycle through a group of ships with my targeting while waiting for torps to come up again, but stay in torp mode for a little while before actually launching. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×