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Reymu

Debate topic: Bailing vs. dying

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Seeing SansPeur's topic on an Omaha player basically quitting reminds me of a few matches when I left because match basically was over or not fun anymore.

 

I've had a few occasions where the match is decided, my team is set to lose within a couple or so minutes, no chance of comeback at all (reds held caps for several minutes, my team dying one at a time; teammates are all huddling behind islands and contesting nothing; and so on).

 

When that happens, I lose all motivation to continue. Go down in blaze of glory focused by 3+, right? Uh, doesn't sound inviting, and oftentimes when match is this 1-sided, the reds are tough enough to annihilate me before I can get within torp range. So I just leave, go behind island where unlikely they'll reach me before match ends, and just back to port.

 

To me, it's simply not fun when match goes that sour. When game loses fun, it's a drag to stay. So I simply park behind island (not giving free kills intentionally) and back to port, and either take another ship to battle or logout for time being.

 

Don't believe my actions thus far are anything unethical, since game is supposed to be fun. When match goes to the junkyard, I just get up and leave.

 

However, I'm interested in the community's thoughts. Perhaps can learn some food for thought.

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Nope. Never done that. I get borderline triggered.... (OK sometimes I get triggered though I'm usually pretty tame, but after 10 beers sometimes.... I digress) It just doesn't feel right to my teammates, and I like to try to farm a few extra points. Plus it can be funny to watch the sheer incompetence of some people even after I die :cap_book:

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Always sucks to lose.  Everyone goes through it and it feels bad every time.

When it's apparent that we're going to lose,  I turn in and yolo.  Grab more XP and credits.  Who knows, might even take someone with me.  Once in a while it might even be enough to turn the match around.

There is absolutely no reason to just "park it" when losing.  Making a bad situation worse.  As stated it sucks for everyone, so you might as well go down swinging.  I do.

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10 minutes ago, Kuckoo said:

 

There is absolutely no reason to just "park it" when losing.  Making a bad situation worse.  As stated it sucks for everyone, so you might as well go down swinging.  I do.

Now see, I'm an unashamedly selfish prick.  What would make it worse for me is to stick around and take it up the pooper for no benefit of my own.

If it's apparent that the team had a chance and just made a critical mistake but otherwise actually might've won... Sure I'll stick around.

But... If the team is so incompetent that it stood a better chance of winning by accident when they tried to throw the game than deliberately winning if they tried to... Well, I'm not gonna stick around.

In short... I'll give my team the same effort they put in; if my team can't pull it's own weight, then I'm not gonna try n carry them and will gladly afk out to play another ship, hopefully with a team that isn't the equivalent of a retarded sea sponge.

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12 minutes ago, Crusin_Custard said:

Then just go ham and make the last few seconds in the game fun and have a laugh.  :etc_red_button:

In a match that bad the only way to make it fun would be to slam some torps into the nearest green named prick who ruined the match... But wg tends to frown on that sort of thing, so fun in those kinds of matches isn't even an option.  Best just to leave the match since there is no way to have fun when you're teamed with the kind of incompetence the op is talking about.

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 Seems a bit situational for me, because I’ve reacted both ways, in all classes of ships.

As a fight example that worked out; Independence on some map I don’t remember, (and my bloody lazy phone won’t load the map wiki,) Standard mode.

Team harrying of to who knows where, low on planes, no chance to defend the cap myself.

Remembered a gambit I saw in a Jingles vid. Flew all my planes towards a corner, attacked out of the corner, then flew them back into the corner as I ran for the opposite corner.

Miracle of miracles, all the Reds turned to go punish the ‘stupid’ CV, who they said in chat should have stayed hidden. By the time they realized I wasn’t there; the rest of my team was back to defend the cap for a win.

12 minutes ago, Shadeylark said:

In short... I'll give my team the same effort they put in; if my team can't pull it's own weight, then I'm not gonna try n carry them and will gladly afk out to play another ship, hopefully with a team that isn't the equivalent of a retarded sea sponge.

The opposite is kind of like this.

I don’t need ‘a few extra credits or xp;’ I have around 670mil of one, and around 8mil fxp, if you count unconverted ship xp.

If I run and hide, it’s genrally because my will to fight has been so completely crushed, I just don’t care any more.

Want the game to end faster Reds? Then chase me down or cap out, because I’m not giving you any more xp or another kill the easy way.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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15 minutes ago, Shadeylark said:

In a match that bad the only way to make it fun would be to slam some torps into the nearest green named prick who ruined the match... But wg tends to frown on that sort of thing, so fun in those kinds of matches isn't even an option.  Best just to leave the match since there is no way to have fun when you're teamed with the kind of incompetence the op is talking about.

How do you know the other team isn’t as grossly incompetent?  How do you know the mistake wasn’t a single lapse in judgement?  How do you you still can’t win?

Ive had games where I was sure I was going to lose because my rather poorly playing teammates were funneling into the enemy one by one.  I went down in a blaze of glory and decided to spectate our full HP sniper Bismarck charge into islands filled with torp cruisers...  and torpedo beat like I have never seen.  Narrowly pulled out a victory that would not have been possible if I had given up.  Or any of my teammates had given up.  It was an amazing rush.

On the other hand, nothing is more frustrating that having a match come down to the wire and have full HP ally who afk’d behind an island.  Not only does that lose us the game, but it adds another minute or two to everyone’s ship timers.  If you’re gonna leave, just charge and get killed.  Better than having the rest of us lose because the minimap told us we had a ship by the cap when there really wasn’t.  Or any other misunderstanding that we don’t have time to notice in the battle.  It’s quite frankly, infuriating.

tl;dr

AFKing makes a horrible experience for everyone else, do the courtesy of a yolo charge if you must bail

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I never intentionally left a game simply because my team sucked. If you reach a no return point, just yolo rush and die with the hope of dealing some damage. If you go back to port while your ship is alive you will lose a lot of money and XP and it feels like you didn't even bothered playing.

If you yolo rush someone well who knows maybe DS someone with your torps or ram i don't know but you will earn more money. In both case you will lose and eventually die, so it's better earn more XP and credit while dying than leaving the game and be more salty because you lost AND you didn't get any reward.

 

 

If your team decided to throw the game away just yolo in, die and quickly launch another game. This way you're sure you will not meet the same player 

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Surviving is by far the most important thing when it comes to carrying matches. Here's an example of a battle that seems lost but we managed to turn around:

YR33neG.jpg

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56 minutes ago, Reymu said:

en that happens, I lose all motivation to continue. Go down in blaze of glory focused by 3+, right? Uh, doesn't sound inviting, and oftentimes when match is this 1-sided, the reds are tough enough to annihilate me before I can get within torp range. So I just leave, go behind island where unlikely they'll reach me before match ends, and just back to port.

 

To me, it's simply not fun when match goes that sour. When game loses fun, it's a drag to stay. So I simply park behind island (not giving free kills intentionally) and back to port, and either take another ship to battle or logout for time being.

FIght until the game ends. Don't care how hopeless it seems, even if it isn't mathematically possible to win, you play it out. Anyone that does anything less, has no right to complain about other players not holding up their end. After all, they'll just counter that they figured out even sooner than you did that the match was lost and gave up.

If you're not willing to fight to the end, don't start the game to begin with.

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Depends on several factors: 

#1. Is the match a 100% loss irrationally or objectively?  Some idiots declare the match a loss in the first couple min simply because they don't see ships moving where they think they should move. Throwing the match by suicide rushing when it had a chance to win I'd say is not a good play. But if you have real intelligence, as your performance history suggests, then you know when a loss is really a loss. 

#2. Tons of games are forfeited when playing further is just a wasted formality. Risk, chess, Monopoly... And many deck building games like Hearthstone where you specialize your deck to be strong against certain classes at the expense of being weak against others, you just quit the match at the very beginning whenever you are paired against those classes you're weakest against and roll a new match. 

#3. Depends on what is fun for you within the legal terms of service. If you're a goal setter and effeciency is your top priority, then any second a moment is a waste of time, you bail in favor of moments that move you forward toward your goal as fast as possible (like the Hearthstone example). 

In WoT when I got burnt out by the massive skill imbalance between teams, I'd quit to garage when it was clear that playing would just waste 10-20 minutes of my life. I value my time too much to waste it playing with subhumans. I'm pretty much getting to that point now in WoWs because much of the intelligent players moved on to gaming communities that have a higher intelligence and quality of character which has resulted in a very low quality remaining player base largely filled with people with social and mental disabilities. Most of them are good natured people but it's frustrating when 'fun' to you is engaging in higher quality strategic play with team mates who you wish would be capable of delivering but aren't. 

When I feel I need to quit to port just to preserve my insanity, it's a sign I'm nearing the end of playing a game. Now with a baby on the way, my WoWs days are numbered anyway so I just don't really care. 

Do what you think is best, usually the answer is somewhere in the middle. 

Edited by A_Crying_Hipster

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I try to do whatever I can to maximize damage on the enemy.  If it's kiting/torping...or driving in for the last kill.  Whatever I can do to make 'em play to win.

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Seems pretty lame to me to just up and quit.  There's a lot of things in this game that strip fun away, but just quitting out of a match is just a D-Bag thing to do.

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I will always hold more dislike for someone who just gives up more than someone who is incompetent, it's better to try and end up doing something stupid than to roll over and quit. Sure losing sucks and it might be a waste of time, but you signed up for using that time when you hit play. Most of the ire comes from my days on League of Legends where we'd have to spend more time in a 4v5 because someone left because the situation was dire and they just decided to quit. You do you, but a person who leaves is just as incompetent as they say their team is imo. No hostility towards you OP, just my thoughts.

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33 minutes ago, Feminist said:

Surviving is by far the most important thing when it comes to carrying matches. Here's an example of a battle that seems lost but we managed to turn around:

YR33neG.jpg

You seriously turned that around? 3 caps vs 0? 11 vs 6 ships? 821 vs 131 points?

I would have raged so hard if I was on the red team.

Got the replay? I'd love to watch that

Edited by Ju87s

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53 minutes ago, Kenjister said:

How do you know the other team isn’t as grossly incompetent?  How do you know the mistake wasn’t a single lapse in judgement?  How do you you still can’t win?

Ive had games where I was sure I was going to lose because my rather poorly playing teammates were funneling into the enemy one by one.  I went down in a blaze of glory and decided to spectate our full HP sniper Bismarck charge into islands filled with torp cruisers...  and torpedo beat like I have never seen.  Narrowly pulled out a victory that would not have been possible if I had given up.  Or any of my teammates had given up.  It was an amazing rush.

On the other hand, nothing is more frustrating that having a match come down to the wire and have full HP ally who afk’d behind an island.  Not only does that lose us the game, but it adds another minute or two to everyone’s ship timers.  If you’re gonna leave, just charge and get killed.  Better than having the rest of us lose because the minimap told us we had a ship by the cap when there really wasn’t.  Or any other misunderstanding that we don’t have time to notice in the battle.  It’s quite frankly, infuriating.

tl;dr

AFKing makes a horrible experience for everyone else, do the courtesy of a yolo charge if you must bail

I want a quality match.

A match where one team grossly outclasses the other isn't enjoyable.

A match where neither team is competent enough to deliberately win and the outcome of who wins or loses might as well be decided by a flip of the coin is also not enjoyable.

As for it being a horrible experience for everyone else... As far as I'm concerned it's a horrible experience for me when the teams are that bad; I owe them nothing and have zero obligation to make their playtime enjoyable, especially when through their incompetence they have made my playtime less enjoyable.  They want me to give half a damn about how much fun they have, they need to show me they give a damn about my enjoyment, and their display of gross incompetence is blatant evidence they don't so why should I?

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39 minutes ago, FleetAdmiral_Assassin said:

 

If you're not willing to fight to the end, don't start the game to begin with.

Now see I look at it as "if you're not capable of fighting in the first place, don't start the game to begin with."

I will not waste my time with those who are only capable of winning due to luck, because they lack the skill to make conscious decisions that will give them a chance of winning.

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When all your team's DDs die in the first three minutes and the two top tier BBs have respectively detonated and been given the IJN prostate exam by the red Shima, yeah, just head back to port, this one's over.

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Seems pointless. If you're in it for XP or credits, you get none by leaving early. If you're in it to git gud, you're wasting an opportunity to practice fighting while at a disadvantage. If you're in it for the camaraderie, cheer your division mates on instead.

Meanwihle, AFK'ing out, which is effectively what you're describing, is just selfish. Your idle ship won't let the game end on kills, so you're wasting everyone's time. Some of your teammates may still have been trying, and you're just abandoning them. Ragequitting is ragequitting.

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I never give up, in always fighting to the last HP point ir last Second possible, why? 

 

1- To save the max of XP and credits, altough its a loss at least i can make It not a total waste of time.

 

2- Players "love" to throw away easy victories. I guess that many players get overconfident with the sight of a win that they rush to get damage and kills before the game ends, put their ships into bad postions, die and throw away what was supposed to be a easy win. Ive already seen so many unbeliveble throws and comebacks...

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I bail all the time. Especially against unicum CV triple fishing divs vs a ~40% CV. I refuse to waste my time with them. Back to port immediately Before the pregame timer is finished and play another ship.

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Never give up. Fight like a cornered Tiger whenever the odds are stacked against you. Die standing and make them work for a victory.

 

Also make sure to bring div mates. Those games can still be won if your 3 man div plays correctly.

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IMHO, there is no excuse for intentionally leaving a match before you have been sunk. Play the hand you've been dealt, like a semi-mature human being, or else strap your man-pants on and have a go at shouldering more than your share of the burden of winning. In the real world, such an action literally amounts to a "I'm taking my ball and going home!"-type tantrum.

It is quite churlish, and I have no respect for anyone who does it.

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3 hours ago, Reymu said:

To me, it's simply not fun when match goes that sour.

I'm pretty sure its not exactly a bowl full of Skittles for anyone else.

2 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Remembered a gambit I saw in a Jingles vid. Flew all my planes towards a corner, attacked out of the corner, then flew them back into the corner as I ran for the opposite corner.

Miracle of miracles, all the Reds turned to go punish the ‘stupid’ CV, who they said in chat should have stayed hidden. By the time they realized I wasn’t there; the rest of my team was back to defend the cap for a win.

Nice trick, have to remember that one.

2 hours ago, Kenjister said:

How do you know the other team isn’t as grossly incompetent?

Because they're the ones waffle-stomping my team?

1 hour ago, Shadeylark said:

A match where one team grossly outclasses the other isn't enjoyable.

If you're on the team which grossly outclasses the other team; then it's just fine!

15 minutes ago, Anumati said:

Also make sure to bring div mates. Those games can still be won if your 3 man div plays correctly.

Unless they're the ones who died early.

 

I've never actually left a match because it looked hopeless; though to be perfectly honest I have suicide charged the nearest red player just to see how much damage I can do before I go.

It's your time and your money, so really you can spend them anyway you want. I just always liked taking one, or more, with me when I leave.

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