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John_Paul_Nelson

Improve the game play meta nerf torps

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OK I'm sure this will be well received, it is time for WOW to nerf the torp range on the Shimakaza and Gearing DDs. I see time and again that they cause BBs to lay back and hold teams from capping on both sides of a match while when being used by lesser players they sit back and spray torps instead of spotting or capping. Now I know there will be differing opinions on this and the trolls will pull up my stats and berate me but really 20 k torp range for Shima and 16.8 for Gearing with their detection spec.s is ridiculous I'd say nerf Shim by 4K and Gearing by 2K anyway lets hear from ya....

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Imagine if a DD popped up beside you then goes banzai towards you and launch torps from 4 KM...
Would you also say nerf the damage lol

Edited by DJ_PON3_ZaNe
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You can probably count the very good Shima players that use the 20km Torps in Randoms on one hand. Those Torps get spotted from the moon, and are the least favorable option of the three. The 12km ones are the ones that get commonly used. Or, but that would make your point invalid anyway, the 20km ones with TA which reduces the range to 16km.

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11 minutes ago, John_Paul_Nelson said:

OK I'm sure this will be well received, it is time for WOW to nerf the torp range on the Shimakaza and Gearing DDs. I see time and again that they cause BBs to lay back and hold teams from capping on both sides of a match while when being used by lesser players they sit back and spray torps instead of spotting or capping. Now I know there will be differing opinions on this and the trolls will pull up my stats and berate me but really 20 k torp range for Shima and 16.8 for Gearing with their detection spec.s is ridiculous I'd say nerf Shim by 4K and Gearing by 2K anyway lets hear from ya....

QgV2uwV.gif

the last thing the IJN DDs need is ANOTHER nerf to their torps

Edited by tcbaker777
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20 minutes ago, John_Paul_Nelson said:

OK I'm sure this will be well received, it is time for WOW to nerf the torp range on the Shimakaza and Gearing DDs. I see time and again that they cause BBs to lay back and hold teams from capping on both sides of a match while when being used by lesser players they sit back and spray torps instead of spotting or capping. Now I know there will be differing opinions on this and the trolls will pull up my stats and berate me but really 20 k torp range for Shima and 16.8 for Gearing with their detection spec.s is ridiculous I'd say nerf Shim by 4K and Gearing by 2K anyway lets hear from ya....

Shima 20km torps can also be spotted from the bloody moon.

 

I’m sorry, but if you’re getting wrecked by 20km Shima torps you’re doing something incredibly wrong and you need to up your game. There is absolutely no reason you should be getting wrecked by her 20km torps. Did you even look up the detection range on those torps? Or are you just talking out of your opposite side when saying that? Because the detection is horrible. Anyone with a brain knows that.

 

Also, firing from the max range of 20km is bad for a Shima. Because there’s a 90% those torps will be spotted long before they even get near their intended target. Meaning the target knows they’re coming long before they’re anywhere close. If said target still gets hit by them, then they deserve to get wrecked and probably should stop playing any tier above tier 1.

 

A slow snail could easily dodge her 20km torps.

Edited by renegadestatuz
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1 minute ago, renegadestatuz said:

Shima 20km torps can also be spotted from the bloody moon.

 

I’m sorry, but if you’re getting wrecked by 20km Shima torps you’re doing something incredibly wrong and you need to up your game. There is absolutely no reason you should be getting wrecked by her 20km torps. Did you even look up the detection range on those torps? Or are you just talking out of your opposite side when saying that? Because the detection is horrible. Anyone with a brain knows that.

easily spotted from 3km out with the vigilance captain skill as its stock detection 2.5km iirc

Edited by tcbaker777

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i laugh when shima use 20km torp..hoorey for my team..slow and long reload..meh...you need to use wasd hack..btw stop reverse bow camping..keep on moving..bla bla etc..20km not much threat ..

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What should be nerfed is the firing range of battleships to force them to move closer to the action, instead of moving in  hightier games to the closest island to  bowcamp. After that, sure lets nerf it all.:cap_rambo:

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I tis also super easy to avoid torps even in a Battleship if you pay attention to what you are doing. I do it in my Tirpitz all the time if they put there fish in the water too far away easily avoided if they are hitting you at there maximum range either you are blind and not paying attention or you are not employing the ships best friend, the A and D key they make the ship turn port or starboard magically making your ship thinner profile wise and wait for it easier to AVOID the torp hits. As far as nerfing anything in the game needs to stop and you need to start paying attention and learning to play right. Also by the way the main Torpedo the Japanese use was the Type 80 more known as the Long Lance torpedo and its greatest strength was range and stealth issue was even during there high point of use many rarely hit ships. Why the captains looked for theme adnt hey where easily spotted with a vigilant crew and they would simple turn in to split the torp line geneally called splitting the fish and or turn away split the fish and or out run theme till the fish ran 0ut of fuel.

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In my opinion, being aware of possible torpedo strikes is just a part of the game in the same way that being aware of showing your side to BBs is part of the game. I don't think range is really a factor in the way I think you are suggesting. Good DD players don't generally rely on range to strike targets. They rely on speed, stealth, and intuition, while spotting and capping, to put torpedoes where they guess the enemy might be a minute or so later. Sure, the occasional long range torpedo might strike something. But that is not, in my opinion, really a problem. As has been mentioned, slow speed and terrible detection on 20km torpedoes make landing hits more luck than skill at long range.

Having said that, the currently under testing Asashio, if brought to the game in its current form, would concern me. But I really doubt it will make it to the live game, at least in the form it has right now.

Without an ounce of rancor, your suggestion is to me about on par with asking that the long ranges on BB guns be nerfed to prevent the occasional 20km citadel hit or devastating strike. Sure, it happens. But not often enough to be more than a "strange things can happen in a battle zone" sort of thing. That's how I feel about the long range torpedoes found at higher tiers. (Though few players use them, I think.)

Respects,

Am

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If anything is stunting the meta right now, it's passive BB behavior due to a combination of range, armor, and general player behavior. Cruisers cannot be the ones to push because they get focused and blapped. DDs get counter spotted by other DDs and radar. 

I don't think the kurfurst humping the map border while shooting HE is really going to suddenly become an aggressive player with any sort of nerf to torpedoes. 

Take away a bit of range and increase the spotting time after firing BB main guns so they aren't the de facto stealthiest ships in high tier maps. 

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10 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

What should be nerfed is the firing range of battleships to force them to move closer to the action, instead of moving in  hightier games to the closest island to  bowcamp. After that, sure lets nerf it all.:cap_rambo:

^^^ He's on to something here you know!!!

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2 minutes ago, harikari25 said:

If anything is stunting the meta right now, it's passive BB behavior due to a combination of range, armor, and general player behavior. Cruisers cannot be the ones to push because they get focused and blapped. DDs get counter spotted by other DDs and radar. 

I don't think the kurfurst humping the map border while shooting HE is really going to suddenly become an aggressive player with any sort of nerf to torpedoes. 

Take away a bit of range and increase the spotting time after firing BB main guns so they aren't the de facto stealthiest ships in high tier maps. 

They wont work either as that play style is already engrained into the player base all they will do is find other unique ways to do the same thing. Only to stop BB players from Proping up already propped up islands and stop the side map humping to make CVs there main counter and stop nerfing theme to appease players that cant the point of a CVs life and why they are still used and not BBs.

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It isn't the range that makes those Shima torps a threat, it is the target WASD skills.

As to Gearing, her torps are a bona fide danger as they harder to detect - but still not so much launched at a target 16km away. Good Gearing captains don't give BB a chance to have her torps spotted second hand. Close launches are killer launches.

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In fact, the torpedoes used by the Shimakaze were nerfed before with the same reasons given. It has had absolutely no effect on BBs staying back and keeping to the edges of the battle. This is because, as was stated before that nerf and is still the case, long-ranged torpedoes are not the cause of this, and so such nerfs do nothing to solve it.

 

The real reason is the extreme range and power of the weapons of BBs themselves. This is where any changes have to be made if you want to 'fix' this issue.

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Long range torps are super easy to avoid, and the only people who are vulnerable to them couldn't be helped, even if they were given infinite health.

The reason I say this is long range torps take a long time to get there. So if you get hit by one, it's because someone knew that's where you would be, several minutes ago. That is shameful.

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I like playing DD's as much as the next guy so how about not nerfing torp range, but putting a 3 DD limit per game and nerfing BB's gun range. Maybe that would help the stay at Max gun range meta that is infested this game.

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Based on these responses I guess not many people are playing matches with smoke everywhere once that enters the picture things change about detection hell that's the first thing you do is torp into smoke because they can't see it coming particularly around caps, and you guys talking about op BBs just think what it would be like if BBs had realistic secondaries with range, like having an Atlanta or Perth strapped on each side

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BBs don't move up because of "Big Ship Little Ballbearings Syndrome". It has nothing to do with torps and their irrational fear of them. Most BBs have the means to easily see them coming and dodge out of the way (upgrades, captain skills, consumables). IJN torps that you quote are especially easy to dodge (poor spread characteristics, detectable from a long range out).

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11 minutes ago, John_Paul_Nelson said:

Based on these responses I guess not many people are playing matches with smoke everywhere once that enters the picture things change about detection hell that's the first thing you do is torp into smoke because they can't see it coming particularly around caps, and you guys talking about op BBs just think what it would be like if BBs had realistic secondaries with range, like having an Atlanta or Perth strapped on each side

Hmmmm :cap_hmm:

Edited by renegadestatuz

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13 minutes ago, John_Paul_Nelson said:

Based on these responses I guess not many people are playing matches with smoke everywhere once that enters the picture things change about detection hell that's the first thing you do is torp into smoke because they can't see it coming particularly around caps, and you guys talking about op BBs just think what it would be like if BBs had realistic secondaries with range, like having an Atlanta or Perth strapped on each side

If you sit still in smoke without Hydro or without being in a position that allows quick evasive maneuvers, no one is to blame for being hit by Torps but you.

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Just now, SireneRacker said:

If you sit still in smoke without Hydro or without being in a position that allows quick evasive maneuvers, no one is to blame for being hit by Torps but you.

XIjVg5W.gif

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