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_Dracarys

Des Moine needs some serious rebalancing

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IMHO ships like DM are gimmicky ships that is heavenly dependent on RNG. It can do one thing really well (hide behind rocks and spam fire), but is completely useless in other situations. Sure it has radar and godly AA, but on open maps those things dont help you do any damage at all.

On maps such as mountain range and ocean, this ship has no chance. On other heavily covered maps like Sea of Fortune, the ship can be OP and highly annoying to play against.

IMHO DM should have this RoF nerfed slightly, and have either its armor significantly buffed so that it doesnt eat random citadels, OR give it faster shell speed so it can kite from long range.

Edited by _Dracarys
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Give it smoke.

Spoiler

wPIsO6u.png

 

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14 minutes ago, _Dracarys said:

IMHO ships like DM are gimmicky ships that is heavenly dependent on RNG. It can do one thing really well (hide behind rocks and spam fire), but is completely useless in other situations. Sure it has radar and godly AA, but on open maps those things dont help you do any damage at all.

On maps such as mountain range and ocean, this ship has no chance. On other heavily covered maps like Sea of Fortune, the ship can be OP and highly annoying to play against.

IMHO DM should have this RoF nerfed slightly, and have either its armor significantly buffed so that it doesnt eat random citadels, OR give it faster shell speed so it can kite from long range.

Once again, before making uneducated posts about buffs/nerfs look at the NUMBERS.  All #'s drawn from last 2 weeks on the NA server:

1.  Des Moines tied for 1st place in win rate for tier 10 cruisers with Moskva @ 50.87%

2.  Second in XP earned

3. tied with Minotaur for damage and survivability

It has specific weaknesses, but also significant strengths - that's why it is tier for first in win rate - it's not a bulk damage dealer it's a scalpel not a club.  Zao averages 15,000 more damage per game, but has 1.5% lower win rate.  Bad players get mauled in the Des Moines, it has a high skill ceiling, good players help their teams win.

No buffs required.

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DM may be inferior to other cruisers when you solo, but it makes for an excellent division buddy.  Especially when you have CV in division.

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I know DM players who hate islands. 

 

There are many different ways to play a ship decently. 

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Des Moines is a well balanced cruiser and is in no need of rebalancing.

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The only thing that it could use would be a upper belt of 30mm

Edited by MrEndeavour
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She is just a very team-dependent ship.

For me, map is not the big problem but teammates are. The ship is immensely strong in area control. However, she needs teammates to protect her flank. She doesn't have the flexibility that many other cruisers have to easily re-position and fill in the hole that your team left open.

 

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8 minutes ago, Exciton8964 said:

She is just a very team-dependent ship.

For me, map is not the big problem but teammates are. The ship is immensely strong in area control. However, she needs teammates to protect her flank. She doesn't have the flexibility that many other cruisers have to easily re-position and fill in the hole that your team left open.

 

 

As somone on the baltimore i've been finding the exact same thing. If your team won;t protect your flank or push up and use the pressure your applying it really dosen;t matter how good your island firing abilities are.

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5 minutes ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

I really think the OP is practicing to be a Troll

I'd say he's doing pretty good at it.

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I'd love to see her have a stronger bow. She's frustrating to use in situations that no other Tier X Cruiser does, outside of the Minotaur, which has smoke.

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So you don't perform well in the ship so obviously it needs buffs right?

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1 hour ago, _Dracarys said:

IMHO ships like DM are gimmicky ships that is heavenly dependent on RNG. It can do one thing really well (hide behind rocks and spam fire), but is completely useless in other situations. Sure it has radar and godly AA, but on open maps those things dont help you do any damage at all.

On maps such as mountain range and ocean, this ship has no chance. On other heavily covered maps like Sea of Fortune, the ship can be OP and highly annoying to play against.

IMHO DM should have this RoF nerfed slightly, and have either its armor significantly buffed so that it doesnt eat random citadels, OR give it faster shell speed so it can kite from long range.

I can see why some might think that the DM would have a problem on Ocean.  The DM isn't great as a long range kiter, due to its floaty shell arcs.  OTOH, I don't see why it shouldn't be able to do well on Mountain Range.  There are islands there is can use.  Maybe not islands for it to shoot over, but that's not the only way to be successful with a DM.  Another useful tactic is to bow tank while using an island to cover your side so that you can limit the number of enemies who can shoot you.  And if you know what you're doing, you can really do extremely well with this tactic.  You may not survive the battle, but you can do considerable amounts of damage and really influence the outcome of the battle in the process.

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A well played and well positioned Des Moines, that works around the Team (Witchcraft!!!) is a deadly force. A lone Des Moines that tries to work outside it's role is just a joke that will get deleted.

And that is the case for several ships. Try to brawl with a Yamato, try to snipe with a Kurfürst, try to contest a cap with the Zao, it won't work because the ship isn't cut out for that Task. Same Story goes for the Des Moines.

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39 minutes ago, Madwolf05 said:

I'd love to see her have a stronger bow. She's frustrating to use in situations that no other Tier X Cruiser does, outside of the Minotaur, which has smoke.

It's the upper belt more than the bow itself that needs to be 30mm.  The problem is a perfectly angled Des Moines gets overmatched on the upper belt and what doesn't end up a cit ends up a pen.

 

It's crazy the difference in damage taken comparing Des Moines vs Moskva, Hindy etc.  It almost feels like being a RN CL out of smoke. Not quite, but almost.  

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It's funny because the DM gets the reinforced prow like the Germans do that makes it immune to overmatch from 15 inch rifles or lower, but then has some of the worst above belt armor at tier that makes DD and CL/CA fights a pain in the butt.

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15 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

A well played and well positioned Des Moines, that works around the Team (Witchcraft!!!) is a deadly force. A lone Des Moines that tries to work outside it's role is just a joke that will get deleted.

Must be nice getting teams that are worth a damn.

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1 hour ago, MrEndeavour said:

The only thing that it could use would be a upper belt of 30mm

That or match the Balti's concealment.  I miss that 7.2km smoke fire detection.  With the 8km smoke fire detection you still have about the same sweet spot where you can spot DD's with radar, but not be spotted when smoke firing.  The only difference is that you are positioning yourself 1km farther away.

 

In reality, 30mm of upper belt armor is probably a lot more valuable.  The only issue is that 30mm would be a fairly significant buff.  Ships like the Zao and Hindi are kinda reasonable in having because they have four turrets and in order to bring all the turrets to bear would mean giving a decent amount of broadside.  It is a risk to fire all four turrets, but that risk is compensated by giving you 30mm of armor to bounce shells when you aren't firing all four turrets.  Does the risk equal the compensation?  Probably not, but with the overmatch mechanics the way they are, there probably is no perfect solution.  For something like the DM, you can fire all three turrets pretty easily.  Giving it 30mm upperbelt armor would mean all you have to do is hit A or D, let the shells land and bounce, then return to your original angle firing all three turrets all while only missing one salvo with your back turret.  It's not a time consuming process like the Zao or Hindi where it takes 5-10 seconds to angle and then another 5-10 seconds to angle back.  With the DM, since your firing angles are so good it takes probably in the realm of 2-3 seconds.  

 

To me the DM is fine.  To me it's an exploit ship.  You exploit DD's that are out of position with radar.  You exploit cruisers that are turning with 18-27 SH shells.  You farm parked BB's with HE and land 5k salvos every 5.5 seconds against broadside BB's with AP.  You just have to put yourself in a position to exploit the enemy.  30mm would be nice, but it's probably a little unjustified and would be a tiny bit overpowered.

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There's usually one best way to play a ship. That doesn't mean there's only one effective way to play it.

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1 hour ago, AhosChaos said:

To me the DM is fine.  To me it's an exploit ship.  You exploit DD's that are out of position with radar.  You exploit cruisers that are turning with 18-27 SH shells.  You farm parked BB's with HE and land 5k salvos every 5.5 seconds against broadside BB's with AP.  You just have to put yourself in a position to exploit the enemy.  30mm would be nice, but it's probably a little unjustified and would be a tiny bit overpowered.

Then why have the reinforced prow if it means nothing at Tier 10 where everybody is toting around 16-18 inch rifles? It literally means that a BB doesn't even have to aim no matter how you angle to pen you. I'd rather the DM had a 25mm prow if it meant the upper belt was 30mm, then angling defensively would actually mean something against BBs, instead of being a free meal that depends on RNG Jesus and burn damage.

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