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Anyone Else Notice How US CV's became Unplayable?

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Has Anyone Else noticed how US CV's have become unplayable due to the removal of a fighter group?

I have Gone up against other carriers with 2 fighters groups and got my fighters removed (upgraded and have HP and DPS skills).

Enterprise has 2 squads of each, Lexington has 1, Shokaku has 1/2/3, graf Zep has 2.

 

Seems like the only way to get to 9/10 is by losing every single game, or buying your way to 9 and 10

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I stopped playing CVs months ago due to it being broken I don't miss them  and I have all the CVs to tier (8) collecting dust forever more

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Don't get locked down, be the first to strafe out when you do. USN fighter groups are the strongest individually.

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Meh... I just use CVs in Co-op; only problems there happen if you don't know how to troll the bots, or if your team spuds out (real or bot teammates,) and the bots manage to swarm you like some bad scene from 'The Sailing Dead."

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I personally resumed the us cv line when they've took out the annoying AS opponents... so no...It's an other story that Ranger and Lexington could use a plus fighter group (even if they were 4 per squadron (5 with AS) as the IJN)

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What frustrates me most about USN CV gameplay is that I have one fighter squadron and 14 teammates yelling at me to use it to protect and spot for only them. Before the nerf (uh, I mean "balance") at least I had two fighter squadrons. The problem is that I now don't relish playing the Lexington enough to progress past it. This is why I've started up the IJN line.  Having played the USN line to the Lexington, it's amazing how much better the IJN carriers are, at least in the levels I've played them. They did make the drop ellipses smaller for the dive bombers in the higher-tier USN carriers though.

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I gave up and only play my Indy in Co-Op. CV mechanics are trash right now. Watch as your planes get locked and strafed to death, which is so absurdly unrealistic. Did you venture slightly too close to a cruiser? Poof - a whole squadron vanishes. Watch as your dive bombers fail to hit a stationary battleship - and even when they hit, they do almost no damage. Aside from lucky torpedo hits, there's almost nothing a CV (American in particular) can really do to carry a match except spot people. Sure, highest tiers are different, but the pain in getting there is not worth it. 

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7 hours ago, RobertMendoza0 said:

Has Anyone Else noticed how US CV's have become unplayable due to the removal of a fighter group?

I have Gone up against other carriers with 2 fighters groups and got my fighters removed (upgraded and have HP and DPS skills).

Enterprise has 2 squads of each, Lexington has 1, Shokaku has 1/2/3, graf Zep has 2.

 

Seems like the only way to get to 9/10 is by losing every single game, or buying your way to 9 and 10

USN CVs will always be junk. As soon as they're not they get nerfed into the ground

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4 minutes ago, MattttChris said:

USN CVs will always be junk. As soon as they're not they get nerfed into the ground

This is true for just about every American ship in the line for some reason they are afraid that the US SHips where btter than they think they where, Issue is they very little research into the subject and even less balancing CV to CV tier wise so the problem will be there till they do proper research and proper balance.

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I think the issue is they took AS loadout away for USN CV's but not IJN CV's, that didnt make any sense to me. I actually like my Ranger, mainly because I am old and its easier to micro less, more powerful squads.

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9 hours ago, RobertMendoza0 said:

Has Anyone Else noticed how US CV's have become unplayable due to the removal of a fighter group?

I have Gone up against other carriers with 2 fighters groups and got my fighters removed (upgraded and have HP and DPS skills).

Enterprise has 2 squads of each, Lexington has 1, Shokaku has 1/2/3, graf Zep has 2.

 

Seems like the only way to get to 9/10 is by losing every single game, or buying your way to 9 and 10

Yep. Every single CV load out with fewer than 2 fighter squadrons is garbage, imo. Some CVs would be OP if you gave them a second squadron of their current fighters, but who says the squadrons have to stay the same size, or have the same stats? 1 fighter squadron is to air combat as one gun is to surface combat.

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When can we see the midway get four fighters squads like hakaryu?

#MakeAmericaGreatAgain!

 

 

 

this is a joke post ples no hate

Edited by JessieTheKitty

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5 minutes ago, JessieTheKitty said:

When can we see the midway get four fighters like hakaryu?

#MakeAmericaGreatAgain!

 

 

 

this is a joke post ples no hate

This person wants to nerf Midway squadron size! :cap_viking:

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2 minutes ago, cometguy said:

This person wants to nerf Midway squadron size! :cap_viking:

Nien. 4x6 squads must happen for midway.

also edited original post so that doesnt get confused

#MAGA

Edited by JessieTheKitty

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5 minutes ago, JessieTheKitty said:

Nien. 4x6 squads must happen for midway.

also edited original post so that doesnt get confused

#MAGA

Oh, I knew what you meant, I just took the most negative possible interpretation, because this is the internet. :cap_book:

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Just now, cometguy said:

Oh, I knew what you meant, I just took the most negative possible interpretation, because this is the internet. :cap_book:

Yeh i knew but it was too easily confused since hakaryu has four fighters. Just making sure no confusion

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CV play, if anything, is hugely inconsistent - not unplayable.  Tier by Tier they are balanced among their competitors, yet do too much when isolated as one of the few top tiers and struggle to do anything as one of the bottom tiers.  Mix in the massive skill disparity between CV players with the immense power gained from having higher level captains and the inconsistency grows.

That's not the end of it either - now we have to factor in Def. AA as a blanket defense screen against CVs with ships that don't have it (Especially at the lower-middle tiers where Def. AA is lacking on most boats when the playerbase is first opened up to CVs) and the removal of manual drop for T4 and T5 - things that only pop up later when higher tier CVs and subsequently better players are in the rotation for MM.

Advancing further in the tiers and now there are AP bombs for the Dive Bombers which can delete most ships given a good penetrating hit, AA that rips apart planes without the use of Def. AA, and increased torpedo bulge protection on more ships. The differences between the USN and IJN lines are magnified as squadron size and amounts grow along with their strike power.

CVs start off simple enough but rapidly tack on these skills and features/mechanics unknown to newer players who are subject to immense badgering for their team when faced with a significantly more skilled individual as their rival.  It only gets worse as they advance through the tiers and the dependence on a CV, if present, grows exponentially as a reliable source of support, damage, and scouting.  On the flip-side, when skilled CV players put themselves in favorable divisions (such as the Kaga/Atlanta combo for AA blankets and strike power) against randoms, the gap grows yet again.

By this point, we counter with "Well there are plenty of tutorials and guides showing you how to do it!"/"Watch some of the better CV players stream their games!"/"Upload your replays so I can see your mistakes!" which can help with learning how to manual drop, recognize when a ship is using Def. AA and how to counter it (Anyone else hear a screaming trumpet?), Strafe Attacks, Exit Strafing, etc.

But none of them can defeat fundamental mechanics which are in place at certain tiers or a massive skill disparity between CV captains in the common MM setup.  Wargaming should work to make AA more effective in lower tiers for cases where CVs can largely ignore AA as a threat over extended periods of time, relax the curve of mechanics CV players have to learn as their targets gain immense abilities to counter them while learning it, and overall adjust the gameplay so a heavily experienced CV player against a new one doesn't seal the fate of an entire team.

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10 hours ago, RobertMendoza0 said:

Has Anyone Else noticed how US CV's have become unplayable due to the removal of a fighter group?

I have Gone up against other carriers with 2 fighters groups and got my fighters removed (upgraded and have HP and DPS skills).

Enterprise has 2 squads of each, Lexington has 1, Shokaku has 1/2/3, graf Zep has 2.

 

Seems like the only way to get to 9/10 is by losing every single game, or buying your way to 9 and 10

T7 and T8 are certainly annoying with the single-fighter loadout, but far from unplayable. You must learn how to strafe very well. You will lose horribly in the air without it. Fighter-clicking with USN CVs is an instant fail at all tiers above 5. That single fighter group will never be king of the skies, but it's far from useless.

Also, I feel like you have missed the fact that other carriers at that tier have two weaker fighter squadrons. Enterprise has downtiered fighter groups (T7 planes on a T8 carrier). Shokaku has 5-plane squadrons and much weaker strafe dps. They're still collectively better than Ranger/Lex's single squadron, but the gap is narrower than you're making it out to be.

Finally, you should know that it's possible to adapt your playstyle to fit the CV loadout at those tiers. Your bombers are very strong if allowed to strike unhindered. Attempt to maneuver them into position unspotted, while keeping tabs on where the opposing fighters are. If your opponent spreads out his fighters to look for your bombers, bring your fighter group with your strike to overwhelm the single CAP squadron while you hit the target and get back out. If he clumps the fighters, bait them out of position and strike when they're too far away to respond. If he escorts his strike with the fighters, send your fighters to fleet defense.

 

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Carriers simply are not fun to play anymore.

- When playing a CV, the game is far too often mostly reduced to 1 vs 1 between the CV's as they duel it out. This is brutal if you're less skilled, have a less skilled captain, or are simply playing an objectively inferior ship. No other class of ships runs into this problem. You can be a mediocre player in a mediocre ship in any other class in the game, and still contribute, do "well enough," and not be the objective reason for your team's defeat. That is simply not true with CV's.

- CV mechanics themselves are ruthless, heavily luck based, and extremely "all or nothing." Did the enemy get the jump on you with strafing? Oh, you lose a whole squad, because that's fair. Did you venture slightly too close to a cruiser with great AAA? Oops - another squad of planes gone. And it's not like it's obvious on the map how far that AAA reaches out, anyway. Oh, you finally got your planes in for an attacks. Oops - your Dive Bombers managed to miss a stationary battleship. Because that's fun and engaging. And even if you DO hit something, by the time your planes are done flying there and back again, you may as well have played a destroyer and put far more torpedoes in the water, a battleship and citadeled things, or a crusier and burned the enemy to the ground. Oh, and your planes died on the way back to your ship because strafing, AAA, something... ugh.

On the other hand, in a good game, you can just randomly delete enemy ships with AP bombs, cross dropped torpedoes, etc. This happens just often enough to get people to hate CV's, while the victims of those attacks don't get to see how frustrating CV play often is. Again, way too much "all or nothing."

The horrible weaknesses of American carriers vs. their Japanese counterparts are also a real issue, but they are a subset of the bigger issues with CV's that I talked about above. So many problems...

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11 hours ago, old_radagast said:

I gave up and only play my Indy in Co-Op. CV mechanics are trash right now. Watch as your planes get locked and strafed to death, which is so absurdly unrealistic. Did you venture slightly too close to a cruiser? Poof - a whole squadron vanishes. Watch as your dive bombers fail to hit a stationary battleship - and even when they hit, they do almost no damage. Aside from lucky torpedo hits, there's almost nothing a CV (American in particular) can really do to carry a match except spot people. Sure, highest tiers are different, but the pain in getting there is not worth it. 

The strafing mechanic is one of, if not the dumbest thing ever added to this game.

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In the End the USN carriers are at a disadvantage if they get caught.

Teir 8's: (stock)

Lexington at 63 dps x 6 planes x 1 Squad // 378 dps

Enterprise at 56 DPS x 6 planes x 2 squads // 672 dps

Shokaku at 70 dps x 4 planes x 3 squads // 840 dps

 

Please Quote the Graf Zeps

 

Talk about balance.

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1 minute ago, RobertMendoza0 said:

In the End the USN carriers are at a disadvantage if they get caught.

Teir 8's: (stock)

Lexington at 63 dps x 6 planes x 1 Squad // 378 dps

Enterprise at 56 DPS x 6 planes x 2 squads // 672 dps

Shokaku at 70 dps x 4 planes x 3 squads // 840 dps

 

Please Quote the Graf Zeps

 

Talk about balance.

Enterpise can lose as many fighters as he wants and still have plenty left.

Shokaku 3 squad requires more skill

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