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LostEngineer

Radar gun fire control and american cruiser flavor

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Yes, im still on my Hornfischer binge, and im trying to figure out a way to suggest a way to buff American cruisers.  

High tier cruisers are in a windy corner right now. There are a bunch of cruiser killing battleships coming online, and not enough carriers to fight.  Every nation has its flavor, and the American all gun anti AA one may not be as spicy as it once was. 

Also, in pre-alpha there was a auto lead feature for guns, but it proved to be too problematic since it made guns far too accurate.

What are the problems with suggesting adding this back as a US cruiser timed feature?  It would reflect the advanced radar the US brought to the pacific, reduce the inaccuracy of the high trajectory shells, and give the cruiser some scary bite for the few seconds its active. 

Thoughts?

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14 minutes ago, LostEngineer said:

Also, in pre-alpha there was a auto lead feature for guns, but it proved to be too problematic since it made guns far too accurate.

Actually there are aoto-loading guns still in game. They are on the Des Moines and soon the Salem. Also American cruisers have another gimmick everyone conveniently forgets about; There AP is far more powerful the equivalent AP shells on other lines. American cruisers can get citadel hits far more reliably then other cruisers, heck i have citadeled a Yamato with the New Orleans. The US cruiser are known for their AA but their guns are just as potent. They don't need any buff right now.

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22 minutes ago, LostEngineer said:

Yes, im still on my Hornfischer binge, and im trying to figure out a way to suggest a way to buff American cruisers.  

High tier cruisers are in a windy corner right now. There are a bunch of cruiser killing battleships coming online, and not enough carriers to fight.  Every nation has its flavor, and the American all gun anti AA one may not be as spicy as it once was. 

Also, in pre-alpha there was a auto lead feature for guns, but it proved to be too problematic since it made guns far too accurate.

What are the problems with suggesting adding this back as a US cruiser timed feature?  It would reflect the advanced radar the US brought to the pacific, reduce the inaccuracy of the high trajectory shells, and give the cruiser some scary bite for the few seconds its active. 

Thoughts?

 

The Pensacola, New Orleans and Baltimore are all dropping one tier in the US Cruiser split, so the line is getting buff'd that way. 

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4 minutes ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

Actually there are aoto-loading guns still in game. They are on the Des Moines and soon the Salem. Also American cruisers have another gimmick everyone conveniently forgets about; There AP is far more powerful the equivalent AP shells on other lines. American cruisers can get citadel hits far more reliably then other cruisers, heck i have citadeled a Yamato with the New Orleans. The US cruiser are known for their AA but their guns are just as potent. They don't need any buff right now.

The OP suggested (radar controlled) auto-lead not auto-load. It is an interesting idea. Would be effective in the upcoming night battle mode, as it was used this way in real life.

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Just now, DustRhino said:

The OP suggested (radar controlled) auto-lead not auto-load. It is an interesting idea. Would be effective in the upcoming night battle mode, as it was used this way in real life.

Yah no. There is already an auto lead feature in the game. It's called torpedo indicators. Also auto lead would be completely overpowered and the US cruiser don't need it, they are perfectly fine the way they are there is no need for something like this.

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2 minutes ago, DustRhino said:

The OP suggested (radar controlled) auto-lead not auto-load. It is an interesting idea. Would be effective in the upcoming night battle mode, as it was used this way in real life.

Oooh night fights. Would you suggest the japs get autotargeting Arc search lights?  That would be a terrifying feeling to get lanced by those moments before you get smacked.

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27 minutes ago, LostEngineer said:

Yes, im still on my Hornfischer binge, and im trying to figure out a way to suggest a way to buff American cruisers.  

High tier cruisers are in a windy corner right now. There are a bunch of cruiser killing battleships coming online, and not enough carriers to fight.  Every nation has its flavor, and the American all gun anti AA one may not be as spicy as it once was. 

Also, in pre-alpha there was a auto lead feature for guns, but it proved to be too problematic since it made guns far too accurate.

What are the problems with suggesting adding this back as a US cruiser timed feature?  It would reflect the advanced radar the US brought to the pacific, reduce the inaccuracy of the high trajectory shells, and give the cruiser some scary bite for the few seconds its active. 

Thoughts?

 

You'd still have the same issue - either far too accurate against the 'sail broadside in a straight line' crowd, or, like an aim assist, utterly useless since people with brains maneuver and often times shooting is guessing how they'll react to the shots you send at them - after all, you are the FCS of the ship in this game.

 

Either way, USN cruisers are being rebalanced, almost all the heavies being dropped a tier, and a CL line being added. The best thing to do now is to sit back and wait to see how it goes. If USN cruisers are balanced, than we're good. If not? Then we'll have to see where they're deficient.

 

As of now, USN CA's are sitting on enough buffs as it is. Perhaps we should recognize that the ships perhaps just aren't suited to the tiers they're at - or power creep has gone to far and everything else needs nerfs...

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2 minutes ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

Yah no. There is already an auto lead feature in the game. It's called torpedo indicators. Also auto lead would be completely overpowered and the US cruiser don't need it, they are perfectly fine the way they are there is no need for something like this.

Originally that same lead system existed for guns as well, but they took it away for good reason. I was thinking you could get 3 20 seconds consumables for it, but the community here thinks american cruisers are fine. So im glad i came here instead of petittioning it.

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2 minutes ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

Yah no. There is already an auto lead feature in the game. It's called torpedo indicators. Also auto lead would be completely overpowered and the US cruiser don't need it, they are perfectly fine the way they are there is no need for something like this.

Didn't say it would be a good idea, or balanced, just that it would be effective.

Not all ships, particularly US cruisers, have torpedoes. So, the ships the OP is opining on (save for Atlanta, Flint, and Omaha and its variants) don't have any auto-lead to work with.

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8 minutes ago, LostEngineer said:

Oooh night fights. Would you suggest the japs get autotargeting Arc search lights?  That would be a terrifying feeling to get lanced by those moments before you get smacked.

Except that is a bad idea. By the fact that while spotlights were used they also showed exactly where your own ship is as ships like Yuudachi, and Kirishima found out at Guadalcanal. Star shells would be a much better idea.

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1 minute ago, DustRhino said:

Didn't say it would be a good idea, or balanced, just that it would be effective.

And completely unnecessary,  the US cruisers have better guns and accuracy at range to compensate. There is no need for a complex idea like this. And as i said before the AP is a deadly threat and the gun handling is smoother and with better characteristics then their counterparts. radar leading is completely unnecessary.

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2 minutes ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

Except that is a stupid idea. By the fact that while spotlights were used they also showed exactly where your own ship is as ships like Yuudachi, and Kirishima found out at Guadalcanal. Star shells would be a much better idea.

If i had only good ideas, i wouldnt be lost. Star shells sound like fun.

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Just now, LostEngineer said:

If i had only good ideas, i wouldnt be lost. Star shells sound like fun.

I worded that a bit harsh, I should of said that it was just bad, will edit.

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6 minutes ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

Except that is a stupid idea. By the fact that while spotlights were used they also showed exactly where your own ship is as ships like Yuudachi, and Kirishima found out at Guadalcanal. Star shells would be a much better idea.

No mentioning of Akatsuki? That poor lady found that out the hard way...

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14 minutes ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

Yah no. There is already an auto lead feature in the game. It's called torpedo indicators. Also auto lead would be completely overpowered and the US cruiser don't need it, they are perfectly fine the way they are there is no need for something like this.

 

Actually, the torp lead is exactly the problem.

 

In a Hindy or Zao if I want to know how fast an enemy is going I hit 3, then hit 1 again. Then I know.

 

USN and the Moskva lack this, making them less accurate.  In the Moskvas case it doesn't make as large as difference because of the speed and weight of the round. For the Des Moines and Baltimore with the lazy arcs being slightly off on your velocity guess means a miss.

I'd be fine with the USN CA getting the torpedo lead indicator, maybe always on since there are no torpedos to select.

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9 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

No mentioning of Akatsuki? That poor lady found that out the hard way...

I was going off the top of my head and those two jumped out.

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2 minutes ago, Grizley said:

 

I was talking about guns. US CA guns have better handling then their counterparts, not to mention their extremely deadly AP, also the US navy didn't put torpedoes on their heavy cruisers so Wargaming can't just add them for no reason. the US cruisers don't need a lead indicator for their guns, it would be completely overpowered.

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Just now, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

I was talking about guns. US CA guns have better handling then their counterparts, not to mention their extremely deadly AP, also the US navy didn't put torpedoes on their heavy cruisers so Wargaming can't just add them for no reason. the US cruisers don't need a lead indicator for their guns, it would be completely overpowered.

 

I'm not sure if you're intentionally missing my point or not but I'll try putting it another way.

Hindenburg, Zao,  HIV can gauge speed of targets by switching to torp then guns. Good players do this between every shot.

Now choose your option.

1. The other CA should lose the torpedo lead indicator.

2. The Moskva and USN CA should get the torpedo lead indicator used by say, the Hindy.

3. It's ok for some to have the lead indicator and others not. No change for those without it.

It sounds like you're choosing 3. That's an illogical position.  It's even more illogical to call the USN cruiser guns accurate.  

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What if they had a lead indicator like the torpedo lead indicator. Tells you the lead, but not how much elevation. 

 

Just tossing out ideas. 

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3 minutes ago, Grizley said:

 

O.k i see your point. but I maintain, a radar lead indicator is overpowered. if something like that was implemented then every ship with a Radar would have to get it otherwise all the other lines would be completely worthless. Also think about the destroyer players, their main defense when spotted by ships after smoke is avoiding gunfire a lead indicator would completely negate that.

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10 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

What if they had a lead indicator like the torpedo lead indicator. Tells you the lead, but not how much elevation. 

 

Just tossing out ideas. 

 

That's basically what I want. Not even based on the guns really. Just the same as the torpedo lead indicators the rest of them already have.

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52 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

 

The Pensacola, New Orleans and Baltimore are all dropping one tier in the US Cruiser split, so the line is getting buff'd that way. 

Baltimore is remaining a t9, Wichita is being put in new Orleans place

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Just now, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

O.k i see your point. but I maintain, a radar lead indicator is overpowered. if something like that was implemented then every ship with a Radar would have to get it otherwise all the other lines would be completely worthless. Also think about the destroyer players, their main defense when spotted by ships after smoke is avoiding gunfire a lead indicator would completely negate that.

 

First, no reason it should be based on the guns.  Yes I realize that was what was in the OP.

Second, DDs main defense is being on the other side of an island which they should be.

Third, the only CAs lacking the torpedo lead indicators are the USN, Moskva and Belfast.  I'm not sure Belfast needs anything more, but if you really want it... 

 

The exact form of the indicator could be discussed. It could be exactly as if they had 55kt torps, or it could be a bar in front of the ship indicating speed or whatever.  

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1 hour ago, LostEngineer said:

Yes, im still on my Hornfischer binge, and im trying to figure out a way to suggest a way to buff American cruisers.  

High tier cruisers are in a windy corner right now. There are a bunch of cruiser killing battleships coming online, and not enough carriers to fight.  Every nation has its flavor, and the American all gun anti AA one may not be as spicy as it once was. 

Also, in pre-alpha there was a auto lead feature for guns, but it proved to be too problematic since it made guns far too accurate.

What are the problems with suggesting adding this back as a US cruiser timed feature?  It would reflect the advanced radar the US brought to the pacific, reduce the inaccuracy of the high trajectory shells, and give the cruiser some scary bite for the few seconds its active. 

Thoughts?

The problem with that is, once you became experienced with the ship, it would be redundant.

The problem with the floaty shells isn't knowing how far to lead them, (practice takes care of that) but that their long flight time at range gives the target time to maneuver or change speed, making your (or your computer's) lead calculation irrelevant.

Basically, ships in-game have exaggerated maneuverability compared to RL. To hit with floaty shells at range, you have to predict whether or not the tsrget will turn/change speed or not, and which way it will go if it does. Only the organic computer on top of your neck can do that. :Smile_teethhappy:

Personally, I'd like to see more (properly balanced) CVs in-game, and everybody's AA adjusted so that US had the best. Or maybe give all their ships DFAA past Tier 5, with cruisers being able to use it and hydro at the same time.

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Let's get absolutely ridiculous and put in Insta-delete ship button. Just imagine 10 second games.The quantity of games becomes almost boundless. Screw Skill  screw anything that requires thought. lets just "BUFF" Everything.

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