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MandoWarrior1

German BB((Tier 7 and 9))

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Why do people hate the tier 9 from what ive heard?

 

and why do people like the tier 7?

I personally HATE the tier 7 BB, but the Tier 9 looks rearlly good...

 

so whats with that? Isn't it just personal opinion anyway?

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Can't speak for tier 9, but here are some of the reasons some people (like me) like Gneisenau:

Ridiculous secondaries with excellent range and rate of fire

Insane long range AA, can become a no fly zone especially when top tier

25 second reload

350mm belt plus turtleback makes it nigh impossible to citadel you except at really long range and at wonky angles

Fast

Looks awesome

 

Why some people don't like Gneisenau

Only six guns with wonky dispersion is painful at range and means that you'll have to rely on secondaries to blap DDs instead of getting AP lolpens

Maneuverability isn't the best

 

But yeah, you're right, it all comes down to personal opinion.

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The tier 7 does everything right, is excellent in every regard, except main battery firepower. To like the tier 7 you need to be able to make her work despite a lackluster main battery. Read this and this.

As for the tier 9, it's just a fatter Bismarck. It's a very good ship, just one that doesn't fit the meta. It requires driving up close and bludgeoning people in the face, which will get you killed in a hurry in this camp-heavy, long range, first-to-peek-dies  meta.

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Its quite squishy, even when angled. the 8 420mm rifles are also tricky to get a grasp of dispersion-wise. although it did prepare me for aiming in the Kurfürst (aim higher than usual).

People like the Gniesenau because it is nimble and is a decent brawler with torpedoes. The Gniesenau also has poor dispersion and only 6 guns. It can get quite frustrating at times.

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the tier 7 is fun because of the torps.  time the rush right, and you can delete people with your guns and torps.   It is also nice getting off that torp volleys before you die, allowing for a "just a flesh wound."

 

the tier 9, the ship that shares the same name as me is... trolly.  the guns like to shoot into 3 different maps at the same time.   this is slightly made up for a faster RoF.  you can overmatch cruiser armor, but your guns aren't really accurate enough to rely on it.(and tier 7s if you get in a rare match with them)   the superstructure is larger, which allows you to eat full pens even when angled.  it is easy to hit for all those HE spammers.(and if you go 2ndary build, you wont have as many survival skills)  the ship doesn't handle as well as the bismark.  it doesn't shoot as far as the bismark. 

 

with all that said, time your push right, and you can cause a lot of damage quickly while causing chaos.   time it wrong and you will die quickly.  there are too many wide open maps in the high tiers that make pushing in the FdG harder.  the more time you spend not using your 2ndaries, the less valuable those skills are.   the more i play the FdG, the more i feel like the 2ndary build isn't as worth it.  It is fun. i like having a build different from the other standard survival build lines.     but i could make my guns more accurate, take skills to maximize my ability to live, and if i get in range, let the 2ndaries blaze away.  they wont be as accurate, but meh.  even with the skill currently, i see them miss DDs at 5km.  entire volleys missing  at that close of range is not acceptable for a 4 point skill.   and against bigger ships, the skill is not needed as much. 

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8 minutes ago, Lert said:

The tier 7 does everything right, is excellent in every regard, except main battery firepower. To like the tier 7 you need to be able to make her work despite a lackluster main battery. Read this and this.

As for the tier 9, it's just a fatter Bismarck. It's a very good ship, just one that doesn't fit the meta. It requires driving up close and bludgeoning people in the face, which will get you killed in a hurry in this camp-heavy, long range, first-to-peek-dies  meta.

I just dont know what im doing. Everytime I go to get in close, I just get hammered and hammered. Im focus fired down fast and nothing I can do and even at sub 14km, my shells loved to hit the water. 

And sometimes theres that lovely DD spreading 7+ torps at me and with my abysmal manuverability, im eating at least 3 and my HP isn't the greatest.

Im honetstly really frustrated with the ship. I cant do any damage without dying in the process. 

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10 minutes ago, KonigstigerVII said:

Its quite squishy, even when angled. the 8 420mm rifles are also tricky to get a grasp of dispersion-wise. although it did prepare me for aiming in the Kurfürst (aim higher than usual).

People like the Gniesenau because it is nimble and is a decent brawler with torpedoes. The Gniesenau also has poor dispersion and only 6 guns. It can get quite frustrating at times.

So the tier 9 is squishy? Gnie to me was very squishy. I didn't last long at all. 

 

 

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Just now, MandoWarrior1 said:

I just dont know what im doing. Everytime I go to get in close, I just get hammered and hammered.

It's all in the timing. Bide your time. That's the trick with Gneisenau. She's an excellent clean-up ship, able to bully any one ship in her matchmaking with her speed, armor, secondaries and torpedoes. Just don't get outnumbered. Be more patient.

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2 minutes ago, Frederick_The_Great said:

the tier 7 is fun because of the torps.  time the rush right, and you can delete people with your guns and torps.   It is also nice getting off that torp volleys before you die, allowing for a "just a flesh wound."

 

the tier 9, the ship that shares the same name as me is... trolly.  the guns like to shoot into 3 different maps at the same time.   this is slightly made up for a faster RoF.  you can overmatch cruiser armor, but your guns aren't really accurate enough to rely on it.(and tier 7s if you get in a rare match with them)   the superstructure is larger, which allows you to eat full pens even when angled.  it is easy to hit for all those HE spammers.(and if you go 2ndary build, you wont have as many survival skills)  the ship doesn't handle as well as the bismark.  it doesn't shoot as far as the bismark. 

 

with all that said, time your push right, and you can cause a lot of damage quickly while causing chaos.   time it wrong and you will die quickly.  there are too many wide open maps in the high tiers that make pushing in the FdG harder.  the more time you spend not using your 2ndaries, the less valuable those skills are.   the more i play the FdG, the more i feel like the 2ndary build isn't as worth it.  It is fun. i like having a build different from the other standard survival build lines.     but i could make my guns more accurate, take skills to maximize my ability to live, and if i get in range, let the 2ndaries blaze away.  they wont be as accurate, but meh.  even with the skill currently, i see them miss DDs at 5km.  entire volleys missing  at that close of range is not acceptable for a 4 point skill.   and against bigger ships, the skill is not needed as much. 

See. I rather rely on tried and true methods of getting in their face and actually fighting them.

 

With the Gnei its alot of passive play and thats not fun for me. 

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1 minute ago, Lert said:

It's all in the timing. Bide your time. That's the trick with Gneisenau. She's an excellent clean-up ship, able to bully any one ship in her matchmaking with her speed, armor, secondaries and torpedoes. Just don't get outnumbered. Be more patient.

Yea. Thats really not my style. Gnei just doesn't feel right to me. Also good to see you still around. Remembered you alot on the WoT's forums.

 

 

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1 minute ago, MandoWarrior1 said:

Yea. Thats really not my style. Gnei just doesn't feel right to me.

Then the rest of the German BB line might not be for you.

1 minute ago, MandoWarrior1 said:

Also good to see you still around. Remembered you alot on the WoT's forums.

o7

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3 minutes ago, Lert said:

Then the rest of the German BB line might not be for you.

o7

Probably not, but ill find out for myself how I feel when I get to the tier X. I already wasted alot of free exp on the Gnei, so I might as well bite the bullet and go up the rest of the line. Dont really have any interest in any other line sadly. 

 

Dont think I like to play cruisers, I already own the Yamato and other ships of that line, I actually enjoy playing the tirpitz believe it or not, but I feel it just plays better than the Gnei.

I also LOVE the look of the tier 9 and 10.

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13 minutes ago, MandoWarrior1 said:

I actually enjoy playing the tirpitz believe it or not, but I feel it just plays better than the Gnei.

The only things Tirpitz has over Gneisenau is an additional torpedo per side, some hitpoints, her secondary battery, extremities armor and two additional gun barrels.

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2 minutes ago, Lert said:

The only things Tirpitz has over Gneisenau is an additional torpedo per side, some hitpoints, her secondary battery and two additional gun barrels.

Do ships get more accurate the higher level your commander is?

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1 minute ago, MandoWarrior1 said:

Do ships get more accurate the higher level your commander is?

Nope.

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1 minute ago, Lert said:

Nope.

Thjen no idea. I feel my tirpitz performs better in accuracy and damage. Just me then. -shrug-

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Just now, MandoWarrior1 said:

Just me then.

Not really. Tirpitz throws 33% more shells out per salvo. More dice rolls = more hits. Volume of fire counts.

That's why she's a tier higher than Gneisenau.

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Just now, Lert said:

Not really. Tirpitz throws 33% more shells out per salvo. More dice rolls = more hits. Volume of fire counts.

That's why she's a tier higher than Gneisenau.

Well, I can make the Tirp work. I cant make the Gnei work. Im horrid in it. 

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1 hour ago, Lert said:

It's all in the timing. Bide your time. That's the trick with Gneisenau. She's an excellent clean-up ship, able to bully any one ship in her matchmaking with her speed, armor, secondaries and torpedoes. Just don't get outnumbered. Be more patient.

That's the name of the game for any kind of brawling.  A yolo charge isn't brawling, it's just a discount ticket back to Port.

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People fail with FDG because they try to play her like a blunt instrument as if they were still playing Bismarck seal-clubbing Tier VI ships.

 

You have to be patient with FDG before committing.

You have to fight on the proper side of the map, i.e. fighting in the big open water areas of Okinawa map is a recipe for failure unless your team is super aggressive.

Pushing aggressively as if they were Bismarck rushing in to crush a New Mexico or Arizona.

 

The meta at VIII-X matches is vastly different than everywhere else, it's dictated by range until a major development happens and a push is possible.  You push up at the wrong time in High Tier matches, you'll get rekt, no matter what kind of ship you're using.  BB, Cruiser, doesn't matter.  You have to exercise patience with FDG.  And if you think that FreeXP'ing past FDG to GK will suddenly make everything better and easier again like you were playing Bismarck clubbing Tier VI's, think again.  You'll fail just as hard with GK.

 

WoWS lets sloppy German BB play get away with it for a lot of the tiers because a lot of the gunnery out there isn't that good.  But at Tier VIII-X, the gunnery is much more deadly.  You got a lot more BBs that can hit you hard at range.  Even the Cruisers at Tier X are super dangerous to your BB.

 

You got away with Bismarck running up to and blowing away the likes of NM, AZ, Warspite, Aoba, Cleveland, Nurnberg, Budyonny, etc.

You got away with Bismarck secondaries having almost as much range as DDs had gun range.

You got away with Bismarck playing against DDs with almost 7km detection ranges from Tier VI-VII, and your secondaries ripping them apart.

You got away with Bismarck playing against 21kt Colorado and the other Standard USN BBs that were just as slow and couldn't get away from you.

You got away with Bismarck stomping on super slow BBs where your secondaries almost double the range of the IJN, USN, RN secondaries.

 

You had it far too easy in Bismarck, but people couldn't cope with the improved dangers of Tier VIII-X.  You got away with it before, but not anymore.  You can and will pay for your mistakes at high tier.  So you best learn patience at Bismarck in a Tier X match, otherwise you'll never learn with FDG or even GK.

 

And if you think FreeXP'ing to GK will make it easier on you because you now have 12 guns, think again.  I'll await your results when you get into a medium to long range fight with Yamato, Montana, or Conqueror while in GK.  12 guns on a German BB doesn't make her a reliable gunner at range.

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2 hours ago, warpath_33 said:

Can't speak for tier 9, but here are some of the reasons some people (like me) like Gneisenau:

Ridiculous secondaries with excellent range and rate of fire

Insane long range AA, can become a no fly zone especially when top tier

25 second reload

350mm belt plus turtleback makes it nigh impossible to citadel you except at really long range and at wonky angles

Fast

Looks awesome

 

Why some people don't like Gneisenau

Only six guns with wonky dispersion is painful at range and means that you'll have to rely on secondaries to blap DDs instead of getting AP lolpens

Maneuverability isn't the best

 

But yeah, you're right, it all comes down to personal opinion.

^^ Agreed, I also enjoyed the Gneisenau grind... I think I perform worse with Scharnhorst, which many people praise.

As for FdG, I also enjoyed her. Probably a lot more than the GK. FdG was very consistent in terms of performance, she rarely let me down; while GK has the potential to have a larger impact, the roller coaster ride that she takes you on is also greater (i.e. not as consistent as FdG). I feel like FdG has the perfect mix of all of the pros of the Bismarck and GK without having nearly all of their cons. The 420's can citadel at ranges that the Bismarck's 380's can't. FdG also gets German hydro, which Bismarck doesn't (though when I grinded through Bismarck, she still had German hydro).

And compared to GK, FdG is a ballerina; FdG is fully capable of charging the enemy, secondaries blazing, and performing a quick U-turn to get out if she finds herself in trouble. GK on the other hand sometimes can't avoid torpedoes even with the German hydro active. And finally, FdG doesn't always see tier 10 games, which are much more passive and requires a significantly more conservative gameplay from GK, forcing you to stay at range where she isn't great with the guns and secondaries don't have the range until much later in the game when you can push and face tank (assuming your team hasn't melted by this point).

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26 minutes ago, Peregrinas said:

^^ Agreed, I also enjoyed the Gneisenau grind... I think I perform worse with Scharnhorst, which many people praise.

As for FdG, I also enjoyed her. Probably a lot more than the GK. FdG was very consistent in terms of performance, she rarely let me down; while GK has the potential to have a larger impact, the roller coaster ride that she takes you on is also greater (i.e. not as consistent as FdG). I feel like FdG has the perfect mix of all of the pros of the Bismarck and GK without having nearly all of their cons. The 420's can citadel at ranges that the Bismarck's 380's can't. FdG also gets German hydro, which Bismarck doesn't (though when I grinded through Bismarck, she still had German hydro).

And compared to GK, FdG is a ballerina; FdG is fully capable of charging the enemy, secondaries blazing, and performing a quick U-turn to get out if she finds herself in trouble. GK on the other hand sometimes can't avoid torpedoes even with the German hydro active. And finally, FdG doesn't always see tier 10 games, which are much more passive and requires a significantly more conservative gameplay from GK, forcing you to stay at range where she isn't great with the guns and secondaries don't have the range until much later in the game when you can push and face tank (assuming your team hasn't melted by this point).

See this is what I wanna hear. I HATE the Gnei. I hate her. 6 rounds, and only two hitting at a time? Its a little... annoying.

 

I rather play the bismarck or the FDR which have more rounds and it means more damage. 

 

I just cant stand the Gnei. I cant. I cant make her work unless im platooning and sticking with my platoonmates... though I dont really have anyone to platoon with.

 

FDR looks good to me. I dont think the Gnei looks good. I know people can make it work but I cant. 

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3 hours ago, MandoWarrior1 said:

Why do people hate the tier 9 from what ive heard?

 

and why do people like the tier 7?

I personally HATE the tier 7 BB, but the Tier 9 looks rearlly good...

 

so whats with that? Isn't it just personal opinion anyway?

 

I enjoy all the KM BBs.  As others have noted....you gotta understand how and when to wield them.  Tactics change depending on tier...and even within a match as it unfolds.   

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5 minutes ago, Soshi_Sone said:

 

I enjoy all the KM BBs.  As others have noted....you gotta understand how and when to wield them.  Tactics change depending on tier...and even within a match as it unfolds.   

Well, for me, I didn't like the Izumo, but I liked the Amagi and the Yamato. I didn't like the Nagato, but I liked the Fuso and the Kongo. There are ships in a line that I like and dislike.

 

GNei is one of the ones I dislike. I like the tirpitz though and i'd assume i'd like the bismarck, but you never know. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Lert said:

The only things Tirpitz has over Gneisenau is an additional torpedo per side, some hitpoints, her secondary battery, extremities armor and two additional gun barrels.

Is that all?  :cap_haloween:  The secondary's range and the torps bring the Tirp to a nice play level.  I find both of them Squishy and lacking in the main guns at times but neither are bad ships.  It was mentioned in this thread about timing, when to commit to a close brawl versus yolo in and die quick.  In the best BB you will die quick if you blindly rush in regardless of tier.  That does not mean camp either. Find the happy range were your shells hit and watch the map. Push when you know you have the advantage.

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