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wildcat18

Torpedo Ships

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I am just curious what the thought process is of people who play DD and CL. I have been practicing going bow on to another BB and and then turn to either side of him depending on where my guns and his guns are so i can broadside him. Then all of a sudden friendly torps make me have to turn showing my broadside to him and my guns are out of line. Either the friendly torps get me or the BB broadsides me. Can't you just wait one second till I pass the bow of his ship before firing torps at him?

Edited by wildcat18

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Take the torps, let that guy go pink. It's a lose lose right? You either die to the friendly torps or to the enemy BB? Well take the friendly torps and flood out. At least 1) You denied the enemy free damage, and 2) made that DD go pink which means his FF ability for the next few matches is nonexistent.

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5 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

Take the torps, let that guy go pink. It's a lose lose right? You either die to the friendly torps or to the enemy BB? Well take the friendly torps and flood out. At least 1) You denied the enemy free damage, and 2) made that DD go pink which means his FF ability for the next few matches is nonexistent.

Good point, thanks

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Yet another issue that would be resolved by simply turning off friendly damage.

 

The torpedo-shooting ally is punished by missing out on damage and having to wait for a long reload cooldown. The player who was probably too close to the enemy in his battleship gets no punishment for his terrible positioning.

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Many current DD players are either 1) arrogant as [redacted] and do not simply care about whether or not they hit you or 2) they are not smart enough to figure out that their torps will hit you

I would just try and verbally warn them off with a "hey don't torp (insert name here) I am going up close", and then if they don't care then just take the friendly torps and make them pay your repair cost.

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5 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Yet another issue that would be resolved by simply turning off friendly damage.

 

The torpedo-shooting ally is punished by missing out on damage and having to wait for a long reload cooldown. The player who was probably too close to the enemy in his battleship gets no punishment for his terrible positioning.

'Terrible positioning" ? Going bow on to BB's has been working pretty good for me. For the most part i have been taking less damage this way and dishing out more damage. How is that terrible positioning? I tried the broadside from a distance and broadside up close shooting at BB's that are bow on to me and it was not working good for me. Me going bow on to the BB has been working better. I am new so maybe its the wrong way but its working.

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4 minutes ago, Shield380 said:

Many current DD players are either 1) arrogant as [redacted] and do not simply care about whether or not they hit you or 2) they are not smart enough to figure out that their torps will hit you

I would just try and verbally warn them off with a "hey don't torp (insert name here) I am going up close", and then if they don't care then just take the friendly torps and make them pay your repair cost.

Bull S--t.

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Just now, Raven114 said:

Bull S--t.

Lol what I said is true for the general playerbase... but DD captains are either super solo players or actual team players, hard to find the middle ground between the two these days sadly.

And yes nobody is usually going to pay attention to chat but hey worth a shot 'cause you never know XD

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1 minute ago, Shield380 said:

Lol what I said is true for the general playerbase... but DD captains are either super solo players or actual team players, hard to find the middle ground between the two these days sadly.

And yes nobody is usually going to pay attention to chat but hey worth a shot 'cause you never know XD

Ya know what makes it worst, if i am going bow on to a BB and I see an enemy getting position on a team mate. I will fire on that enemy instead of firing at the BB cause I know i can bounce some of his shells and help my team mate stay alive. No good deed goes unpunished lol

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Just now, wildcat18 said:

Ya know what makes it worst, if i am going bow on to a BB and I see an enemy getting position on a team mate. I will fire on that enemy instead of firing at the BB cause I know i can bounce some of his shells and help my team mate stay alive. No good deed goes unpunished lol

^lifequote.png

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59 minutes ago, wildcat18 said:

I have been practicing going bow on to another BB

This is good; the skinnier you  re, the harder you are to hit; though you still need to weave to avoid getting penned longways and blown up anyway.

1 hour ago, wildcat18 said:

and then turn to either side of him depending on where my guns and his guns

Also good; best to go opposite the way his guns ar pointing whenever possible. Best if you position your own guns properly beforehand, but still better to go on the opposite side from a BBs guns in most cases, no matter which way your guns are pointing.

1 hour ago, wildcat18 said:

Then all of a sudden friendly torps make me have to turn showing my broadside to him and my guns are out of line.

This is unfortunately a case of bad positioning on your part. If getting FF torped is a constant issue, then you need to watch the mini-map amd main screen more closely, and position for attack accordingly.

It's unfortunate, but as others have said, there are torp users who apparently don't pay attention, or don't care if they are launching into the path of an ally. Best thing is to try to avoid such circumstances as much as possible.

(-)

Generally; never charge a battleship to make a torpedo attack across more than 5-6k of open water, even if it is all alone, unless you have no other choice. The closer you start your run, the less time they have to react. My personal preference is to use cover to work in to effectively point blank range, and to attack from just outside auto-spotting range, (2-3k.)

In low tier games, terrain, or smoke, and a close ambush are one of a destroyer (or other torpedo ship's,) strongest weapons; USE IT MERCILESSLY.

In higher tier games the same applies, but you also have to make allowances for radar, hydro, and CV drivers that know their business when it comes to keeping destroyers spotted.

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13 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

This is good; the skinnier you  re, the harder you are to hit; though you still need to weave to avoid getting penned longways and blown up anyway.

Generally; never charge a battleship to make a torpedo attack across more than 5-6k of open water, even if it is all alone, unless you have no other choice. The closer you start your run, the less time they have to react. My personal preference is to use cover to work in to effectively point blank range, and to attack from just outside auto-spotting range, (2-3k.)

 

I do weave when I see him fire and I am in a BB myself. I have not gotten into DD torping stuff much yet. Thanks for the info

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2 minutes ago, wildcat18 said:

and I am in a BB myself.

Ah...

Clueless me...

Still sounds like you're learning your business as a battleship driver.

Advice in that respect, (if you're not already doing so,) would be to learn to aim and shoot in normal view when you make such runs. Patience also helps; if they fire into you at a bad angle, then sail on in yourself, guns ready to fire, and give them a full broadside as everything comes into line.

Also, it's not always best to try to turn right away and get your guns lined back up, that can leave you vulnerable to a broadside shot yourself. Sometimes, though circumstantially not always, it is better to sail straight away fro the enemy in order to protect your broadside while you evaluate the situation.

If they turn in to you, that exposes their broadside and you can give them a (binocular mode aiming now) half-solvo of AP into a turret barbette or just waterline center hull.

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3 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Ah...

Clueless me...

Still sounds like you're learning your business as a battleship driver.

Advice in that respect, (if you're not already doing so,) would be to learn to aim and shoot in normal view when you make such runs. Patience also helps; if they fire into you at a bad angle, then sail on in yourself, guns ready to fire, and give them a full broadside as everything comes into line.

Also, it's not always best to try to turn right away and get your guns lined back up, that can leave you vulnerable to a broadside shot yourself. Sometimes, though circumstantially not always, it is better to sail straight away fro the enemy in order to protect your broadside while you evaluate the situation.

If they turn in to you, that exposes their broadside and you can give them a (binocular mode aiming now) half-solvo of AP into a turret barbette or just waterline center hull.

I try to time it after he fires his main bow guns knowing i might take an aft gun or two. A work in progress and i am more than happy to let him turn broadside to me. What i try to do is not fire at him whens he is close but gets my guns broadside and ready.

Edited by wildcat18

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1 hour ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Yet another issue that would be resolved by simply turning off friendly damage.

Okay. 

Then what do I do about the griefers who only drop into a game to block friendly shots and screw up friendly freedom of mobility?

If you turn off friendly damage, you enable that kind of play at the same time.

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37 minutes ago, Fishrokk said:

Okay. 

Then what do I do about the griefers who only drop into a game to block friendly shots and screw up friendly freedom of mobility?

If you turn off friendly damage, you enable that kind of play at the same time.

What do you do about griefers who TK for fun?


What do you do about griefers who TK players who don't do what they want?

 

What do you do about griefers who intentionally turn into allied ordnance knowing full well it is there just so they can get someone else punished?

 

What do you do about idiot battleships who are so close to an enemy that when they moronically decide to throw it in reverse, that throws them into the firing line of allied torpedoes that were already fired and would have missed and sunk the enemy if he didn't decide to stop right there?

 

Team damage brings nothing positive to the game. You're going to say "No it doesn't, it forces people to be more careful with their ordnance" and it's completely wrong because if they were, we wouldn't have this conversation EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

 

Team damage is already disabled in Operations. It hasn't become a griefer's paradise.

 

Team damage is disabled in WOT Blitz. It hasn't become a griefer's paradise.

 

Team damage is disabled in every MOBA imaginable. This change hasn't contributed to griefing.

 

Team damage is disabled in team shooters. This change hasn't contributed to griefing.

 

The fact is the only griefing that could take place with team damage turned off is incapable of actually punishing the griefed player beyond losing a reload cooldown. Which also happens now when carriers decide to fly TBs close to a battleship knowing full well I've stealth-fired torpedoes at it, just to make it turn so my 2 minute reload torpedo salvo misses-- and then scoots on his merry way to drop on something else.

 

Don't try to tell me that disabling the ability for griefers to grief will somehow make them grief more. Because that logic couldn't hold up a marshmallow, let alone this argument.

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2 hours ago, wildcat18 said:

'Terrible positioning" ? Going bow on to BB's has been working pretty good for me. For the most part i have been taking less damage this way and dishing out more damage. How is that terrible positioning? I tried the broadside from a distance and broadside up close shooting at BB's that are bow on to me and it was not working good for me. Me going bow on to the BB has been working better. I am new so maybe its the wrong way but its working.

You're a battleship who is supposed to maintain a range of ~10km or greater so that your armor can...you know, work, while being close enough that gun accuracy isn't a big hindrance.

 

If you're so close that you stumbled into a salvo of torpedoes fired by an ally, likely in full confidence that you wouldn't suddenly stop and reverse right into them, over a minute ago, when you have full visibility on allied torpedoes from the second they're fired... This is a combination of lack of awareness and poor positioning on your part.

 

People like to say the shooter is responsible for their ordnance, and in most cases this is true, but there are exceptions to the general rule. Stopping and reversing into the salvo to bow tank while being willfully ignorant of what is going on around you is one of them.

 

At the very least "The shooter is responsible for his ordnance" does not automatically absolve the person hit by it of any fault.

 

There's a certain point where the person who fired the shot can't be held responsible for what happens. Time. Distance. And how long you should've been aware that it was there are all factors. Treating someone who accidentally hits an ally at 10km with a single torpedo should not be painted with the same brush as this guy:

 

 

Edited by KiyoSenkan

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2 hours ago, Shield380 said:

Lol what I said is true for the general playerbase... but DD captains are either super solo players or actual team players, hard to find the middle ground between the two these days sadly.

False.  If anything, it's some cruiser players (particularly premiums) who tend to be the most careless with their torp drops.  Also, it's very much possible to be both a good solo player and a good team player, as the things which benefit the individual most (kills, damage caused, base captures) also have the effect of helping the team...particularly in a destroyer which is both fast enough to re-position as necessary and stealthy enough to do so without getting blown to bits.

The problem about gross generalizations is that they're always untrue (see what I did there?).

2 hours ago, wildcat18 said:

I am just curious what the thought process is of people who play DD and CL. I have been practicing going bow on to another BB and and then turn to either side of him depending on where my guns and his guns are so i can broadside him. Then all of a sudden friendly torps make me have to turn showing my broadside to him and my guns are out of line. Either the friendly torps get me or the BB broadsides me. Can't you just wait one second till I pass the bow of his ship before firing torps at him?

There are a lot of things to consider here.  First and foremost, the tactic you're describing is generally used in last-ditch scenarios where you've pushed in too aggressively and been caught out, leaving you in a scenario where you're going to take a ton of damage no matter what you do.  In that case, and particularly if you're already low health, some DD drivers will decide that you're probably going to be dead before the torps arrive and so they're trying to lock in the kill on that enemy BB.

Second, you have to take into account how far away that DD or cruiser was when they launched the torpedoes.  From their perspective, your ship might have been well clear of the target area when they fired, but you then steered directly into their path...it's very difficult to predict the behavior of a friendly ship in the minute + it can take for torps to run their course.  If things aren't too hectic then a good player will announce that they've fired torps at whatever the ship is that you've both targeted, but that's not always possible in the heat of battle (and not all players are good, by a long shot).

Then of course there's the fact that you're playing Co-Op.  I am not knocking the quality of Co-op players in the least, but given the hyper-aggressive tactics which the bots use it can often degenerate into a race to cause damage before your teammates have sunk them all...in that light a player might be a little too trigger happy with their torpedoes.

If this is an issue that you frequently have, it might behoove you to tell the chat your intentions before you make that charge.  I'm not saying this will prevent the problem altogether, but it couldn't hurt.  As you said, this is a tactic which you've been practicing--this side issue of friendly torps is just an unexpected wrinkle that you need to iron out.

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1 hour ago, KiyoSenkan said:

You're a battleship who is supposed to maintain a range of ~10km or greater so that your armor can...you know, work, while being close enough that gun accuracy isn't a big hindrance.

 

If you're so close that you stumbled into a salvo of torpedoes fired by an ally, likely in full confidence that you wouldn't suddenly stop and reverse right into them, over a minute ago, when you have full visibility on allied torpedoes from the second they're fired... This is a combination of lack of awareness and poor positioning on your part.

 

People like to say the shooter is responsible for their ordnance, and in most cases this is true, but there are exceptions to the general rule. Stopping and reversing into the salvo to bow tank while being willfully ignorant of what is going on around you is one of them.

 

At the very least "The shooter is responsible for his ordnance" does not automatically absolve the person hit by it of any fault.

 

There's a certain point where the person who fired the shot can't be held responsible for what happens. Time. Distance. And how long you should've been aware that it was there are all factors. Treating someone who accidentally hits an ally at 10km with a single torpedo should not be painted with the same brush as this guy:

 

 

I never said the torps came from 10m's away, I think you are making that assumption. I am talking about apples and you are talking about oranges. None of what you just said matches anything I described. It was close quarters fighting and the torps tend to come from less than 3m's away.  At 10m's I can see them coming and easily avoid them.  What I have been doing has been working other than the torps from 3m's so i think I will keep trying different things to see what works for me. Cause what works for you might not work for me but thanks for your imput.

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What? .... Wait!!!!!!!

There was a memo telling us DD drivers to NOT torp Wildcat18??

Oh man my bad...

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2 hours ago, KiyoSenkan said:

What do you do about griefers who TK for fun?


What do you do about griefers who TK players who don't do what they want?

For these two scenarios, there is the current in-game system.  Marks them pink, reflects damage back at them if they keep doing it.

What do you do about griefers who intentionally turn into allied ordnance knowing full well it is there just so they can get someone else punished?

Admittedly this possibility is there and I have read posts complaining of people doing just this.  Personally, I think it is a [edited] move, and I'd never do it - but there is always the point that if the torps weren't there in the first place that this kind of griefing wouldn't be possible.

What do you do about idiot battleships who are so close to an enemy that when they moronically decide to throw it in reverse, that throws them into the firing line of allied torpedoes that were already fired and would have missed and sunk the enemy if he didn't decide to stop right there?

Assume that it wasn't intentional griefing, that someone was just not paying close enough attention, forgive them (since I've been guilty myself once or twice), and move on with my day.

Team damage brings nothing positive to the game. You're going to say "No it doesn't, it forces people to be more careful with their ordnance" and it's completely wrong because if they were, we wouldn't have this conversation EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

This isn't a conversation I'm having nearly that often.  And I don't see it as a forum topic very often, either.

Team damage is already disabled in Operations. It hasn't become a griefer's paradise.

True.

Team damage is disabled in WOT Blitz. It hasn't become a griefer's paradise.

I wouldn't know, but I'll take your word for it.

Team damage is disabled in every MOBA imaginable. This change hasn't contributed to griefing.

It isn't disabled in WoT, though I don't know about any of the others.  Assuming you're right about most of the FPS/TPS MOBAs, I suspect for more strategic/equipment based MOBAs it isn't.  But you're engaging in a bit of hyperbole here.

Team damage is disabled in team shooters. This change hasn't contributed to griefing.

In the multiplayer online team shooters I played, it was a server parameter and most servers I played had team damage on.  On the servers I played where it wasn't, running into griefers who exploited that was not uncommon.

The fact is the only griefing that could take place with team damage turned off is incapable of actually punishing the griefed player beyond losing a reload cooldown. Which also happens now when carriers decide to fly TBs close to a battleship knowing full well I've stealth-fired torpedoes at it, just to make it turn so my 2 minute reload torpedo salvo misses-- and then scoots on his merry way to drop on something else.

Yeah, now tell me how infuriating it will be when it is your allied DD, in front of your DD, who eats your torp spread because he can, while he lines up his own that steals your kill?

Don't try to tell me that disabling the ability for griefers to grief will somehow make them grief more. Because that logic couldn't hold up a marshmallow, let alone this argument.

I'm not.  It was never my assertion that they would grief *more*.  Just that they would then be able to grief in different ways - ways that would not be discouraged by game mechanics in any way, shape, or form.  And that is not an incorrect statement.

 

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5 hours ago, wildcat18 said:

Good point, thanks

It's kind of a terrible point, actually.  You might think you are getting some back from your team member, but you are screwing the rest of your team if you just flood out.

5 hours ago, enderland07 said:

I nearly never experience this issue.

I have.  And I've done it once or twice, sadly.   I've learned not to take the chance anymore, and not take such risky shots, but...  That also means I've sat and watched quite a few greens die because I waited on the torps until it was safe to launch. 

 

5 hours ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Yet another issue that would be resolved by simply turning off friendly damage.

 

The torpedo-shooting ally is punished by missing out on damage and having to wait for a long reload cooldown. The player who was probably too close to the enemy in his battleship gets no punishment for his terrible positioning.

Removing friendly fire type damage would really reduce the skill and care required in the game, tho.  Your reasoning is a bit lacking on the latter points.  The torping player faced that reload anyways, and he missed out on damage because he took a badly aimed shot.  The red BB may have been too close, or it may have been the green badly postioned, and, odds are he's still getting punished with damage from other sources.

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5 minutes ago, Nukelavee45 said:

Removing friendly fire type damage would really reduce the skill and care required in the game, tho.  Your reasoning is a bit lacking on the latter points.  The torping player faced that reload anyways, and he missed out on damage because he took a badly aimed shot.  The red BB may have been too close, or it may have been the green badly postioned, and, odds are he's still getting punished with damage from other sources.

Prove it.

 

Some of the most skill-based games on the internet have no friendly fire damage at all.

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