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MandoWarrior1

Grober Kurfurst

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A couple things actually.

 

1. Is the German tier ten fun? Any of the other ships fun?

 

2. I hear tier 8 is really bad right now since they are constantly pulled up. Is this true?

 

3. Would this mean that tier 7 is a really good spot to play around?

 

4. If the German tier ten is fun/good, hows the best way to play her. Her secondary focus or main battery?

 

Thanks for any help!

 

I have a crap ton of exp locked away that ill probably unlock in order to grab the tier ten... maybe.

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Free EXP is good to have but be sure you know how to play Tier 10 battle meta before you "Buy your way there" I love my GK. Perma Camo is a must have, Secondary builds are my recommendations for any KM BB ship Tier 7 and up. I use my Scharnhorst and Gneisenau  to earn EXP and Credits because IMO Tier 7 is the Sweet Spot. KM BB line is a Brawling Line with reservations to support with you. Any Tier 8 or 9 See the Top ships more often than not, expect it.

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1. Yes. 12km+ secondary range. Every German BB is fun if you know how to play them.

2. Yeah, T8 isn't the best spot, but Bismarck, the T8, can hold her own pretty well when uptiered.

3. T7 is a great place(Gneis has torps), but T8 can be even more fun.

4. It depends. I advise you get a T6 ships can 5 star those Ops to get a 10 point German captain. Then you can go secondary build or survivability.

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1. German lower tiers are harder due to wonky guns. Gneisenau is good at her tier.

2. Bismarck is hard when uptiered, but real fun in same tier or one tier lower matches.

3. See above. With six guns, Gneisenau has less alpha damage, but her upgraded secondaries can make up for this if you're willing to learn how to brawl.

4. Hybrid style works best for me. I use Aim mod to help lessen dispersion and usually use single turret fire rather than salvos, since the RNG bases off each turret fired. Also, Concealment Expert is still wise to avoid notice. Fire Prevention keeps the fires down. Learning to stagger premium heals and DCP, you can overcome the incessant fire.

Target priorities are also huge. With their guns you can reliably push cruisers, and Hydro can help you avoid most torpedo walls.

Of course, brawling with battleships depends on the tier, but it gets sad for lower tier battleships with your fast turrets.

Once you get to Kurfurst though, you have to expect less turret swinging and more lumbering about, applying your pressure in one place. You won't have much chance to change course once you get stuck in. I haven't made it to her yet, but that's what I have witnessed.

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15 minutes ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

Free EXP is good to have but be sure you know how to play Tier 10 battle meta before you "Buy your way there" I love my GK. Perma Camo is a must have, Secondary builds are my recommendations for any KM BB ship Tier 7 and up. I use my Scharnhorst and Gneisenau  to earn EXP and Credits because IMO Tier 7 is the Sweet Spot. KM BB line is a Brawling Line with reservations to support with you. Any Tier 8 or 9 See the Top ships more often than not, expect it.

I have the Yamato and the midway. Just looking for another tier ten to add to my roster and I LOVE German Engineering of WW2. Always played their tanks in WoT's. 

11 minutes ago, BrandonKF said:

1. German lower tiers are harder due to wonky guns. Gneisenau is good at her tier.

2. Bismarck is hard when uptiered, but real fun in same tier or one tier lower matches.

3. See above. With six guns, Gneisenau has less alpha damage, but her upgraded secondaries can make up for this if you're willing to learn how to brawl.

4. Hybrid style works best for me. I use Aim mod to help lessen dispersion and usually use single turret fire rather than salvos, since the RNG bases off each turret fired. Also, Concealment Expert is still wise to avoid notice. Fire Prevention keeps the fires down. Learning to stagger premium heals and DCP, you can overcome the incessant fire.

Target priorities are also huge. With their guns you can reliably push cruisers, and Hydro can help you avoid most torpedo walls.

Of course, brawling with battleships depends on the tier, but it gets sad for lower tier battleships with your fast turrets.

Once you get to Kurfurst though, you have to expect less turret swinging and more lumbering about, applying your pressure in one place. You won't have much chance to change course once you get stuck in. I haven't made it to her yet, but that's what I have witnessed.

I see. So try to avoid the lower tiers, but tier 7+ is their good ones. Alright. Well, i think ill have to consider more. BB's for me have been a swing and a miss on my Yamato. Good with a good team, but lacking when you're stuck on your own cause your team is too passive.

 

Isn't brawling dangerous however due to having to have teammates?

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3 minutes ago, MandoWarrior1 said:

I have the Yamato and the midway. Just looking for another tier ten to add to my roster and I LOVE German Engineering of WW2. Always played their tanks in WoT's. 

I see. So try to avoid the lower tiers, but tier 7+ is their good ones. Alright. Well, i think ill go through with getting the tier 7 and ten. Sweet spots and all. 

 

Isn't brawling dangerous however due to having to have teammates?

very good, yes Brawling is very dangerous without an active friend for support. However In my experience Well Picked  Adversaries on my terms often are very rewarding encounters. The ooppps where did that Yammy come from encounter brawling becomes very active and your adrenaline pumps hard. Also rewarding.  

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5 minutes ago, MandoWarrior1 said:

I have the Yamato and the midway. Just looking for another tier ten to add to my roster and I LOVE German Engineering of WW2. Always played their tanks in WoT's. 

I see. So try to avoid the lower tiers, but tier 7+ is their good ones. Alright. Well, i think ill have to consider more. BB's for me have been a swing and a miss on my Yamato. Good with a good team, but lacking when you're stuck on your own cause your team is too passive.

 

Isn't brawling dangerous however due to having to have teammates?

German BBs are in bad shape right now, Bismarck is unplayable against tier 10s, and FDG is no better. Basically, GK is the only enjoyable German BB right now past tier 6.

I liked Bayern at tier 6 and Gneisenau is okay but Scharhorst is just better. so.. yea.. Until tier 10 GK, German BBs suffer because they cannot punish braodside cruisers..

Their main guns are terrible!

If you enjoy brawling you might find them fun because you can have some great games in them but they've become too situational and unreliable that I don't find it enjoyable sailing in them.

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21 minutes ago, MandoWarrior1 said:

A couple things actually.

 

1. Is the German tier ten fun? Any of the other ships fun?

 

2. I hear tier 8 is really bad right now since they are constantly pulled up. Is this true?

 

3. Would this mean that tier 7 is a really good spot to play around?

 

4. If the German tier ten is fun/good, hows the best way to play her. Her secondary focus or main battery?

 

Thanks for any help!

 

I have a crap ton of exp locked away that ill probably unlock in order to grab the tier ten... maybe.

You played 65 battles. How do you have a crap ton of xp? You wouldn't do good in teir 10 having only 65 battles.

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38 minutes ago, MandoWarrior1 said:

-snip-

Meh, it's alright, the Bismarck was the pinnacle of that line IMO.

T8 isn't that bad, it does seem to get downtiered pretty often but it's not so bad. Though lots of people cry about it.

T7 is a pretty good spot, especially for German BBs, Gnies is a blast to play.

I did a survivability/secondary hybrid build

ps, I wouldn't waste fxp on the line, just grind it.

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39 minutes ago, MandoWarrior1 said:

A couple things actually.

 

1. Is the German tier ten fun? Any of the other ships fun?

 

2. I hear tier 8 is really bad right now since they are constantly pulled up. Is this true?

 

3. Would this mean that tier 7 is a really good spot to play around?

 

4. If the German tier ten is fun/good, hows the best way to play her. Her secondary focus or main battery?

 

Thanks for any help!

 

I have a crap ton of exp locked away that ill probably unlock in order to grab the tier ten... maybe.

 

Recommendations:

1. Scharnhorst

2. Graf Spee

3. Tirpitz

 

Scharnhorst isn't available right now.

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40 minutes ago, MandoWarrior1 said:

snip

I hate to be that guy, but it's spelled Großer Kurfurst, and the "ß" is transliterated as "ss".  So if your computer does not have a short cut to create the letter ß,  (on all mac computers the default key binding "alt S") then you should spell it out as Grosser Kurfurst.  

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20 minutes ago, MandoWarrior1 said:

I have the Yamato and the midway

You have Yammy & Midway on what account? Even if you had $1M to spend you need to have XP to convert & this account definitely doesn't have it. Confused that people are encouraging you to jump into T7 let alone T10 matches w/the few games you have played.

So many questions??? So much confusion!!!

 

47 minutes ago, MandoWarrior1 said:

I hear tier 8 is really bad right now since they are constantly pulled up. Is this true?

Actually this is a good thing (contrary to all the whining) as it allows for much better chances to receive higher XP (at least for those that can't afford to buy their way to T10).

If this is the view you take about being pulled into a higher tier match in a T8...what tier do you expect to be facing in a T10?

Note: Having a T10 is not gonna make playing against T10s any easier if you can't hang w/T10s in a T8.

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21 minutes ago, 0806sung said:

German BBs are in bad shape right now, Bismarck is unplayable against tier 10s, and FDG is no better. Basically, GK is the only enjoyable German BB right now past tier 6.

I liked Bayern at tier 6 and Gneisenau is okay but Scharhorst is just better. so.. yea.. Until tier 10 GK, German BBs suffer because they cannot punish braodside cruisers..

Their main guns are terrible!

If you enjoy brawling you might find them fun because you can have some great games in them but they've become too situational and unreliable that I don't find it enjoyable sailing in them.

German ships at Tier 8 are fine even against tier X's.  (they can citadel a yamato at about 10km).  If you know how to play you can do fine.

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Thanks for all the help here on making a decision. Think ill hold off on grinding a new line and sticking with my yammy. Too many conflictng opinions on the state of the German BB's worry me. 

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3 minutes ago, Valdez_Raptor said:

German ships at Tier 8 are fine even against tier X's.  (they can citadel a yamato at about 10km).  If you know how to play you can do fine.

really? any ship can do fine if you know how to play. and every single battleships at tier 8 can citadel a Yamato at 10km.

 

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I think the German BBs probably reach their peak at Tier 8 with the Bismarck.  Not a huge fan to the Tier 9 and 10 though I have only played them on the PTS.

As far as Tier 8 being in a bad place, it really isn't.  Yes you can see Tier 10 and even Tier 9s but your not really at as much of a disadvantage as all the, sorry to put it this way, whinners would have you believe.  I have managed to break 100k damage in my Kii, and be among the top 3 players as the only Tier 8 on my entire team and I don't feel the Kii is anywhere near the best Tier 8 ship in the game.  Also you just as likely to be Top Tier facing off against Tier 6 and 7 ships and personally I generally feel there is more different between Tier 7 and 8 than Tier 8 and 9 when it comes to power level.  Tier 8 is generally where the BBs start getting powerful with ships like the North Carolina, Alabama, Bismarck, Tirpitz, Amagi, etc. 

As far as Tier 7, yeah it is a good tier.  Most consider it to be the best tier in the game though I don't necessarily think that is the case again because the Tier 8 ships generally feel significantly more powerful to me.   The benefit of Tier 7 is you don't have to worry about seeing Tier 10s which while they don't entirely dominate Tier 8s as I mentioned above, they do possess a rather large power jump over most Tier 9s, larger than you really see at any other tier in my opinion.  Generally speaking most Tier 7 ships feel very comfortable to play and usually up-tier very well and usually possess a huge performance increase over Tier 5s which they do see fairly often.  I don't particularly like the Gneisenau  though so wouldn't say that is the best Tier for German BBs, well unless you are playing the Scharnhorst then yeah sure.

As far as my experiences with the Tier 10 German BB, again only on the PTS, but with about 30+ matches there, I would say going secondary build is definitely the way to go but if you build it that way you can't go all passive and snipe from range, rather you have to focus on the brawl where quite honestly it performance its best.  However since Tier 10 tends to be a passive snipefest, you may well find the Grober Kurfurst at a disadvantage more often than not.   This is what I think takes away from the "Fun" that can be had with this ship.  If you get a team that is aggressive and pushing, the Grober really shines though.  

As far as using Free XP or converting XP to get to Tier 10, why?  Honestly the most fun to be had in this game is in the Tier 6-8 range with the occasional Tier 5 like the Guillo Cesare poking its head into the fun category as well.  Honestly quite a few Tier 5s are fun if you want to get down to it so you could probably even say Tier 5-8 is where the most fun is out.  Tier 10 tends to be very passive especially when playing a BB.  Sure you have powerful ships but the pace just kind of saps the fun out of them.  Anyway, my point here is not to rush to tier 7 especially when there is a ton of fun to be had in the mid level range. 

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8 minutes ago, Midnitewolf said:

I think the German BBs probably reach their peak at Tier 8 with the Bismarck.  Not a huge fan to the Tier 9 and 10 though I have only played them on the PTS.

As far as Tier 8 being in a bad place, it really isn't.  Yes you can see Tier 10 and even Tier 9s but your not really at as much of a disadvantage as all the, sorry to put it this way, whinners would have you believe.  I have managed to break 100k damage in my Kii, and be among the top 3 players as the only Tier 8 on my entire team and I don't feel the Kii is anywhere near the best Tier 8 ship in the game.  Also you just as likely to be Top Tier facing off against Tier 6 and 7 ships and personally I generally feel there is more different between Tier 7 and 8 than Tier 8 and 9 when it comes to power level.  Tier 8 is generally where the BBs start getting powerful with ships like the North Carolina, Alabama, Bismarck, Tirpitz, Amagi, etc. 

As far as Tier 7, yeah it is a good tier.  Most consider it to be the best tier in the game though I don't necessarily think that is the case again because the Tier 8 ships generally feel significantly more powerful to me.   The benefit of Tier 7 is you don't have to worry about seeing Tier 10s which while they don't entirely dominate Tier 8s as I mentioned above, they do possess a rather large power jump over most Tier 9s, larger than you really see at any other tier in my opinion.  Generally speaking most Tier 7 ships feel very comfortable to play and usually up-tier very well and usually possess a huge performance increase over Tier 5s which they do see fairly often.  I don't particularly like the Gneisenau  though so wouldn't say that is the best Tier for German BBs, well unless you are playing the Scharnhorst then yeah sure.

As far as my experiences with the Tier 10 German BB, again only on the PTS, but with about 30+ matches there, I would say going secondary build is definitely the way to go but if you build it that way you can't go all passive and snipe from range, rather you have to focus on the brawl where quite honestly it performance its best.  However since Tier 10 tends to be a passive snipefest, you may well find the Grober Kurfurst at a disadvantage more often than not.   This is what I think takes away from the "Fun" that can be had with this ship.  If you get a team that is aggressive and pushing, the Grober really shines though.  

As far as using Free XP or converting XP to get to Tier 10, why?  Honestly the most fun to be had in this game is in the Tier 6-8 range with the occasional Tier 5 like the Guillo Cesare poking its head into the fun category as well.  Honestly quite a few Tier 5s are fun if you want to get down to it so you could probably even say Tier 5-8 is where the most fun is out.  Tier 10 tends to be very passive especially when playing a BB.  Sure you have powerful ships but the pace just kind of saps the fun out of them.  Anyway, my point here is not to rush to tier 7 especially when there is a ton of fun to be had in the mid level range. 

Alright. Let me go ahead and say this. I rather be in a tier 10 fighting tier 8's then vice versa. There is a massive difference in firepower, HP and etc. 

I mean, ill take my Yamato over the NC anytime. 

That being said, why do you not like the Gneisenau? Im curious as to why.

As for the Grober, so its basically play platoons as it normally is with any battleship? Well thats fine. Im used to playing alone so ill just have to do what I can to win battles by myself.

As for the free exp. Im starting at tier 1 pretty much and I rather get through the slug and the mug and get to the big boys.

Im the type of person who doesn't like being bottom tier. It changes the way you have to play. Cause if I take my Amagi into a tier 10 and I decide to fight a yamato... I know my life is in MAJOR danger. Thats all.

Plus, I will have trouble penning it after all. 

Again this is just my opinion. 

 

Sorry for the really short post to your  super long one man. It's really appreciated to get a thoughtful opinion. 

 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, MandoWarrior1 said:

Thanks for all the help here on making a decision. Think ill hold off on grinding a new line and sticking with my yammy. Too many conflictng opinions on the state of the German BB's worry me. 

RN BBs, Pan-Asain DDs and passive play killed German BBs at high tier. I see no reason to play a GK if you have a Yamato.

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Just now, CaptainTeddybear said:

RN BBs, Pan-Asain DDs and passive play killed German BBs at high tier. I see no reason to play a GK if you have a Yamato.

To be frank, DD's killed BB's ;P

The walls of Torpedos are really scary. xD

But even so, I really like the look of the tier 10... so I kinda wanna get into it. 

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If BB is your thing, then KM BBs are not the most "optimal".

 

Secondary build is a meme, and the life of BB depends on maneuverability - a thing KM BBs simply do not have at high tiers.

Edited by NeutralState

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5 minutes ago, MandoWarrior1 said:

To be frank, DD's killed BB's ;P

The walls of Torpedos are really scary. xD

But even so, I really like the look of the tier 10... so I kinda wanna get into it. 

Yamato has over double the torp protection of GK and way more accurate guns. GK has it's good points but feels like it's been left behind. In addition to RN BBS and Deepwater torps the AP bombs and Secondary nerf were aimed squarely at German BBs.

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26 minutes ago, Midnitewolf said:

I think the German BBs probably reach their peak at Tier 8 with the Bismarck.  Not a huge fan to the Tier 9 and 10 though I have only played them on the PTS.

I'd actually say that the tier 9 FdG is the pinnacle of the line.

  • The 420's are actually capable of hitting citadels at ranges which the 380's can't
  • German hydro 
  • Is nimble compared to GK
  • Doesn't have to go nearly full broadside to unmask rear turrets unlike GK

I found that FdG and GK actually have some pretty different playstyles. You can basically treat the FdG as a battering ram; keep your forward momentum going and try to be in secondary range as much as you can and you will more often than not cause the enemy to panic and retreat, giving your team a nice advantage. GK, on the other hand, needs to play a lot more conservatively; if she finds herself in a troubled situation, she can't turn around as quickly as FdG can. Combined with a much more passive gameplay at tier 10, your team is much less likely to support you as a battering ram and they would rather watch you get focused and die instead of helping with the push.

Basically, FdG can point her bow at the enemy and charge and come out on top, while GK will find herself quickly abandoned by her team and unable to get out of tricky situations fast enough. Oh, and even with hydro active, GK can't maneuver herself fast enough to dodge enemy torpedoes in many situations, that's how terrible the maneuverability is.

 

 

Edited by Peregrinas

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1 minute ago, MandoWarrior1 said:

Alright. Let me go ahead and say this. I rather be in a tier 10 fighting tier 8's then vice versa. There is a massive difference in firepower, HP and etc. 

I mean, ill take my Yamato over the NC anytime. 

That being said, why do you not like the Gneisenau? Im curious as to why.

As for the Grober, so its basically play platoons as it normally is with any battleship? Well thats fine. Im used to playing alone so ill just have to do what I can to win battles by myself.

As for the free exp. Im starting at tier 1 pretty much and I rather get through the slug and the mug and get to the big boys.

Im the type of person who doesn't like being bottom tier. It changes the way you have to play. Cause if I take my Amagi into a tier 10 and I decide to fight a yamato... I know my life is in MAJOR danger. Thats all.

Plus, I will have trouble penning it after all. 

Again this is just my opinion. 

 

Sorry for the really short post to your  super long one man. It's really appreciated to get a thoughtful opinion. 

 

 

 

First, I am not saying that Tier 10s aren't more powerful because it is obvious they are.  What I am saying is that people make a much bigger deal out being a Tier 8 in a Tier 10 match.  Being a Tier 8 in a Tier 10 match isn't really any different than being a Tier 5 in a Tier 7 match or a Tier 7 in a Tier 9 match, yet people act as if the sky is failing when they find themselves bottom tier while playing a tier 8.   You can be competive in a Tier 8, you can have good if not excellent matches in a Tier 8 and you can carry a match in a Tier 8 providing you play well.  What's the problem.  At least that is my opinion.  

As for the Gneisenau, I just feel she doesn't have enough barrels.  6 guns just isn't enough at Tier 7 and it isn't like she gets unparalleled accuracy for giving up 2-4 guns to her peers either cause she still has the same wonkie German dispersion they all get.  Your also at a major disadvantage when engaging DDs at short range again due to having only 6 guns.  I means she is ok and performs ok as well but she is just feels lacking in firepower. 

As to the grind.  I agree to an extent.  I am really looking forward to the hopefully getting one of the French missions that allows me to skip the First 4-7 tiers of the French BB line and love the previous missions we have had that have allowed me to skip directly to Tier 6 in so many lines.   Honestly I am not a fan at all of playing tier 1-4  so yes please, let me skip those tiers.   That being said, as I mentioned, Tier 5-8 is about the most fun Tiers in the game with many extremely fun and exciting ships.  Also general game play tends to be more fun at these tiers if you ask me so I feel it is a real waste to skip the most fun part of the game just to get to a less fun part at Tier 10.   Also your right, you do have to play ships differently when your bottom Tier than when your top tier but to be blunt with you, having to play at a disadvantage is what makes you better at the game and really understand the ship your playing.  Hell you might even find that the way you have to play when your bottom tier ends up being the best way to play when your top tier too. Alternatively sure you can just bull ahead and end up playing poorly in a Tier 10 but I don't know, having bad match after bad match because I am playing poorly doesn't sound much fun to me.  Also I can tell you without a doubt the game is a hell of alot more rewarding when you come out on top despite being the only Tier 8 in a tier 10 match while playing the Kii no less.

In any case, you have to enjoy the game how you feel your going to enjoy the game best but if you skip to the top, I can guarantee your missing out on playing in some of the best and most fun ships this game has to offer. 

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1 minute ago, Midnitewolf said:

First, I am not saying that Tier 10s aren't more powerful because it is obvious they are.  What I am saying is that people make a much bigger deal out being a Tier 8 in a Tier 10 match.  Being a Tier 8 in a Tier 10 match isn't really any different than being a Tier 5 in a Tier 7 match or a Tier 7 in a Tier 9 match, yet people act as if the sky is failing when they find themselves bottom tier while playing a tier 8.   You can be competive in a Tier 8, you can have good if not excellent matches in a Tier 8 and you can carry a match in a Tier 8 providing you play well.  What's the problem.  At least that is my opinion.  

As for the Gneisenau, I just feel she doesn't have enough barrels.  6 guns just isn't enough at Tier 7 and it isn't like she gets unparalleled accuracy for giving up 2-4 guns to her peers either cause she still has the same wonkie German dispersion they all get.  Your also at a major disadvantage when engaging DDs at short range again due to having only 6 guns.  I means she is ok and performs ok as well but she is just feels lacking in firepower. 

As to the grind.  I agree to an extent.  I am really looking forward to the hopefully getting one of the French missions that allows me to skip the First 4-7 tiers of the French BB line and love the previous missions we have had that have allowed me to skip directly to Tier 6 in so many lines.   Honestly I am not a fan at all of playing tier 1-4  so yes please, let me skip those tiers.   That being said, as I mentioned, Tier 5-8 is about the most fun Tiers in the game with many extremely fun and exciting ships.  Also general game play tends to be more fun at these tiers if you ask me so I feel it is a real waste to skip the most fun part of the game just to get to a less fun part at Tier 10.   Also your right, you do have to play ships differently when your bottom Tier than when your top tier but to be blunt with you, having to play at a disadvantage is what makes you better at the game and really understand the ship your playing.  Hell you might even find that the way you have to play when your bottom tier ends up being the best way to play when your top tier too. Alternatively sure you can just bull ahead and end up playing poorly in a Tier 10 but I don't know, having bad match after bad match because I am playing poorly doesn't sound much fun to me.  Also I can tell you without a doubt the game is a hell of alot more rewarding when you come out on top despite being the only Tier 8 in a tier 10 match while playing the Kii no less.

In any case, you have to enjoy the game how you feel your going to enjoy the game best but if you skip to the top, I can guarantee your missing out on playing in some of the best and most fun ships this game has to offer. 

Is there a mission for the german ships?

And I have a Yamato which I consitently play, just... want more to play with than my Yamato. Gets boring after a while. its why I kinda really want that german tier 10 but if its garbage... well I dont want it. I generally play between 10-20 km though. Is the tier 10 dispersion good enough for that range?

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1 minute ago, Midnitewolf said:

As for the Gneisenau, I just feel she doesn't have enough barrels.  6 guns just isn't enough at Tier 7 and it isn't like she gets unparalleled accuracy for giving up 2-4 guns to her peers either cause she still has the same wonkie German dispersion they all get.  Your also at a major disadvantage when engaging DDs at short range again due to having only 6 guns.  I means she is ok and performs ok as well but she is just feels lacking in firepower.

I might have the unpopular opinion, but I think Gneisenau is a good ship. If you play the Gneisenau as a battering ram, the dispersion really isn't an issue since you are engaging at ranges closer than what other BBs prefer to sit at. You can charge them point blank for a torpedo drop, and chances are they will try to turn around so that they don't get torpedoed and that's exactly when you shoot their citadel with 6 15" shells. 

Also, if you are full secondary spec, then that's even more incentive to get up close personal. I've had games with over 100k damage where my secondaries contributed a fair amount (my best game was a 180k damage game, half of which came from secondaries). Just need to know how to dance around in an environment where you are close to enemy cruisers and DDs that are trying to torp you.

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