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Snargfargle

I like the Flag-waving Woman But...

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I like the new intro screen with the woman carrying a French flag. However, what the heck is she doing with that musket? Nobody carries a long firearm that way. Not to mention that those old muskets weighed eleven pounds. I'm a fairly good-sized man and it's hard for me to hold an SMLE weighing two pounds less with my arm extended (I know because I just got mine out and tried it). I don't think a French woman of the 18th century could do this as the average height of women back then was just five feet, and that musket would therefore have weighed over a tenth of what she herself weighed.

Edited by Snargfargle
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We're gonna have to nerf that musket Snarg..!!
 

tumblr_nkpc7wVPc71sr1lf3o1_r1_400.gif

Edited by Gerbertz

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She's right handed and is carrying the musket in her left hand like you would for gripping the stock to fire. She has the flag in her right hand because she picked it up in the heat of battle to rally the fighters on. 

Or people who create statues don't have much real firearm experience so artist interpretation comes into play. 

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There is a reason why even the soldiers of the day usually grounded the butts of their muskets or carried them in the crooks of their arms. If you've carried an unslung rifle or shotgun hunting all day you will know what I mean. 

A4DDAB6418715272F3D8E3D0B7E6C8C83D41CBC2

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9 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

I like the new intro screen with the woman carrying a French flag. However, what the heck is she doing with that musket? Nobody carries a long firearm that way. Not to mention that those old muskets weighed eleven pounds. I'm a fairly good-sized man and it's hard for me to hold an SMLE weighing two pounds less with my arm extended (I know because I just got mine out and tried it). I don't think a French woman of the 18th century could do this as the average height of women back then was just five feet, and that musket would therefore have weighed over a tenth of what she herself weighed.

Did you just assume his/her gender?

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She's pointing with it. But she would have looked better with a sword.

I believe that's supposed to be Marianne, "the allegoric figure of the French republic," but I honestly think they should have gone with Joan of Arc instead.

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1 minute ago, Doombeagle said:

Did you just assume his/her gender?

I assume you are being facetious because if you wore a dress in the 18th century and were not an actor in a play then you were almost certainly a female.

If you have a heavy military rifle at home then try to hold it like that for yourself.  If you don't then get something that weighs about 20 pounds, to compensate for the shorter moment arm, and hold it with your arm extended. 

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La Liberté guidant le peuple is carrying the musket like a normal person would. 

la_libert%C3%A9_guidant_le_peuple.jpg

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Hey, just because the statue has been holding that rifle like that forever doesn't mean that she did.  :Smile_great:  Besides, an 18th century woman, a peasant, who probably had to do a lot of manual labor, was probably stronger than a lot of men are today.  :Smile_teethhappy:

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22 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

I like the new intro screen with the woman carrying a French flag. However, what the heck is she doing with that musket? Nobody carries a long firearm that way. Not to mention that those old muskets weighed eleven pounds. I'm a fairly good-sized man and it's hard for me to hold an SMLE weighing two pounds less with my arm extended (I know because I just got mine out and tried it). I don't think a French woman of the 18th century could do this as the average height of women back then was just five feet, and that musket would therefore have weighed over a tenth of what she herself weighed.

art history mumble art mumble history mumble bloke called Delasomethingcroix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Leading_the_People

300px-Eug%C3%A8ne_Delacroix_-_Le_28_Juileducation these days tssk..

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1 minute ago, nuttybiscuit said:

art history mumble art mumble history mumble bloke called Delasomethingcroix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Leading_the_People

300px-Eug%C3%A8ne_Delacroix_-_Le_28_Juileducation these days tssk..

look how the lady is holding that rifle them look at the statue the lady in the photo isn't really holding she has it set on the ground the statue lady has her arm out at a 90 degree angle which is not that easy to do

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2 minutes ago, skull_122_steel said:

look how the lady is holding that rifle them look at the statue the lady in the photo isn't really holding she has it set on the ground the statue lady has her arm out at a 90 degree angle which is not that easy to do

Marianne is superhuman, very strong, an allegorical figure supposed to incarnate/represent The People. Therefore, anything is possible. 

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1 minute ago, nuttybiscuit said:

Marianne is superhuman, very strong, an allegorical figure supposed to incarnate/represent The People. Therefore, anything is possible. 

Or, Marianne is a dude, or an East bloc female Olympian, which, come to think of it, is pretty much the same thing.

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12 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

La Liberté guidant le peuple is carrying the musket like a normal person would. 

la_libert%C3%A9_guidant_le_peuple.jpg

Yup, this is what I thought. Iconic to France. If you look closely, the Statue of Liberty bears a striking resemblance

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20 minutes ago, Cruiser_Fiume said:

She's pointing with it. But she would have looked better with a sword.

I believe that's supposed to be Marianne, "the allegoric figure of the French republic," but I honestly think they should have gone with Joan of Arc instead.

Joan of Arc is less inspiring with that white flag...

Vue13.jpg

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7 minutes ago, Destroyer_Suzukaze said:

Yup, this is what I thought. Iconic to France. If you look closely, the Statue of Liberty bears a striking resemblance

I see it.

Its the boobies free.

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I remember an ex-Marine I worked with in the mines in Arizona. He told a story about when he was stationed on Okinawa. His was off duty, and out on a hike with his buddies. They came across a tiny old woman struggling along the trail with two large metal canisters at either end of a pole slung over her shoulder. 

Being a macho young buck he said, "Let me help you with that granny, were are you headed?" She put down the load and pointed down the trail. He grabbed the pole... and quickly came to the realization that he was not going to be able to pick it up. It probably weighed in at near 200 lbs... or more that twice what the hunched 4' 9", 70 year old woman weighed.

After an embarrassing struggle, he stepped back. The old woman shot him a contemptuous glance, shouldered the pole, and continued down the trail while the guy's buddies laughed their asses off while he stood there red-faced.

The moral of the story is that women living in less glamorous settings, or previous centuries, are/were no strangers to heavy physical labor, and judging them by the cell-phone toting females of 21st century America is not an accurate comparison.

An 80 lb 70 year old woman carrying a 200 lb load... your argument is invalid 

Edited by Skarp_AGW
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12 minutes ago, Cruiser_Fiume said:

She has armor though.

a7HxumR.png

I think France is still trying to drink away the memory when they lost at Waterloo and their flag became the internationally recognized sign of truce or ceasefire, and surrender.

8CphQe9.jpg

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5 hours ago, Skarp_AGW said:

An 80 lb 70 year old woman carrying a 200 lb load... your argument is invalid 

That's a nice story but as someone who understands biology and also has worked in the medical field I have my doubts as to its veracity. Some human females can lift weights that some human males cannot. However, in general, primate females are weaker than primate males. This sexual dimorphism has been present in anthropoid primates for at least ten million years. Also,  strength diminishes with age. There are some current female olympians who could easily hold an 11-pound musket at arms length but these girls are in their 20s and also products of modern society who have grown up with proper nutrition and training. The average half-starved French girl of the 18th-19th century may not have been as strong. That said, some would have been. Perhaps the one in the portrait was.

When you see portrait after portrait of trained male soldiers with their heavy rifles grounded you will realize that holding a longarm out like that wasn't done much. Maybe as a last-ditch effort to get a bayonet jab in before someone shot you. I recall fending off an aggressive water moccasin in a Louisiana swamp with a bayoneted M16 once by holding it out at arms length. However an unloaded M16 only weighs 6 1/2 pounds.     

 

 

Edited by Snargfargle

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Sorry OP, but if that pose is difficult you may need to exercise more. I just grabbed my M1841 rifle (a bit shorter than a Charleville but about the same weight) and had no problem standing like the statue for a full minute. Sure, a woman would be weaker, but she would also just be gesturing briefly and not trying to hold the gun there.

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7 hours ago, Gerbertz said:

We're gonna have to nerf that musket Snarg..!!
 

tumblr_nkpc7wVPc71sr1lf3o1_r1_400.gif

Too late, they buffed the woman!

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18 minutes ago, ARCNA442 said:

Sorry OP, but if that pose is difficult you may need to exercise more. I just grabbed my M1841 rifle (a bit shorter than a Charleville but about the same weight) and had no problem standing like the statue for a full minute. Sure, a woman would be weaker, but she would also just be gesturing briefly and not trying to hold the gun there.

An 1841 weighs a pound less and is a foot shorter than a Charleville. It's all about moment arms. Have your girlfriend or sister try to hold the musket out at arm's length. 

Edited by Snargfargle

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