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Plaatduutsch

Why can't WG just Give Back the 4th Turret on Cossack?

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Giving it hydro seems a bizarre change.

The ideal setup for me would be 2x4 120mm Gun 

1x4   Mark IXM torpedoes

and ...done!

 

cossack.jpg

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there going for the late/post war refit for her I think we may see the 4X2 version in the in game tech tree when the full line is released

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8 minutes ago, skull_122_steel said:

there going for the late/post war refit for her I think we may see the 4X2 version in the in game tech tree when the full line is released

All the Tribals had 1 turret removed and replaced with a 2 gunned 4" turret shortly after launching.

IMO I am fine with this. The 8% Fire chance makes these little guys flame throwers and I'm looking forward to some serious Tribal action. Got a 19 pnter waiting for RN DD's.

Edited by _RC1138

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16 minutes ago, Plaatduutsch said:

Giving it hydro seems a bizarre change.

The ideal setup for me would be 2x4 120mm Gun 

1x4   Mark IXM torpedoes

and ...done!

 

cossack.jpg

been wondering that myself.  would definitely invest in it.  As it is now I'll be giving it a hard pass.

But as to the rationale: I'd guess WG doesn't want a Tier 7 Khabo as a premium.  P2W for a FtP game...such a sin.  

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In my experience WG have almost never made a model change to a ship once it's in the testing process, we're downstream of them doing that. Adding gimmicks and changing stats is fine, but not a remodel.

 

Cossack was 8x 4.7in for the Altmark Incident and 2nd Battle of Narvik, but didn't have it for the encounter with Bismarck, which might be a bigger deal for WG.

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9 minutes ago, mofton said:

In my experience WG have almost never made a model change to a ship once it's in the testing process, we're downstream of them doing that. Adding gimmicks and changing stats is fine, but not a remodel.

 

Cossack was 8x 4.7in for the Altmark Incident and 2nd Battle of Narvik, but didn't have it for the encounter with Bismarck, which might be a bigger deal for WG.

makes sense.  the 3D modeling aspect of this game is pretty intense and time consuming -- not to mention adding a moving part to the model -- plus adding additional ballistic modeling for being able to shoot the two guns on a fourth turret.

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2 minutes ago, Dr_Dirt said:

makes sense.  the 3D modeling aspect of this game is pretty intense and time consuming -- not to mention adding a moving part to the model -- plus adding additional ballistic modeling for being able to shoot the two guns on a fourth turret.

I don't have the experience to say with any confidence.

In theory the 4th 4.7in is just a copy-paste in, though I don't know if the surroundings would need to change too, then there's animating it to turn, ballistics exist for everything else.

It could be much harder than I think, even for something minor.

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13 minutes ago, mofton said:

I don't have the experience to say with any confidence.

In theory the 4th 4.7in is just a copy-paste in, though I don't know if the surroundings would need to change too, then there's animating it to turn, ballistics exist for everything else.

It could be much harder than I think, even for something minor.

I've fiddled around enough with game design and 3d modeling to know that adding the 4th turret isn't as easy as most of us might think.   Still -- I'd be all for delaying release long enough to test the Cossack with its older 4th turret configuration.  It would be a pretty potent T7 gunboat with 8-guns unless they uber nerf'd accuracy or rate of fire or the like.   After all its not like its a Russian DD -- so it couldn't have been very good.  

I buy a lot of premiums -- particularly DDs --  but I wont be buying this one given its current stats.

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1 hour ago, _RC1138 said:

All the Tribals had 1 turret removed and replaced with a 2 gunned 4" turret shortly after launching.

IMO I am fine with this. The 8% Fire chance makes these little guys flame throwers and I'm looking forward to some serious Tribal action. Got a 19 pnter waiting for RN DD's.

While normally I would agree, having played the Gadjah Mada (which I would argue is pretty darn similar to Cossack) and having seen most ingame footage of Cossack in action, the latter is so outclassed it makes you wonder. You get average smokes compared to the permasmoke of PA, 1 less torpedo launcher, awful firing angles on the rear turret compared to Gadjah's 2 360 turning turrets, and all that in exchange for some extra hp. Of course you could argue that Gadjah is too strong (and I wouldnt really disagree), but even so, the Cossack still doesnt seem like worth it.

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1 hour ago, Plaatduutsch said:

Giving it hydro seems a bizarre change.

The ideal setup for me would be 2x4 120mm Gun 

1x4   Mark IXM torpedoes

and ...done!

 

cossack.jpg

Not a clue. It's the difference between a purchase and an LOL from me. 

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4 hours ago, warheart1992 said:

While normally I would agree, having played the Gadjah Mada (which I would argue is pretty darn similar to Cossack) and having seen most ingame footage of Cossack in action, the latter is so outclassed it makes you wonder. You get average smokes compared to the permasmoke of PA, 1 less torpedo launcher, awful firing angles on the rear turret compared to Gadjah's 2 360 turning turrets, and all that in exchange for some extra hp. Of course you could argue that Gadjah is too strong (and I wouldnt really disagree), but even so, the Cossack still doesnt seem like worth it.

People say the same thing about the Kidd and I find it to be the most PTW boats in the game and a favorite of mine. I suspect, depending on how they handle this, the Cossack may be similar. Remember, the Cossack is a DD hunter, not a Torp boat, and adding sonar could be interesting. 

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1 hour ago, _RC1138 said:

People say the same thing about the Kidd and I find it to be the most PTW boats in the game and a favorite of mine. I suspect, depending on how they handle this, the Cossack may be similar. Remember, the Cossack is a DD hunter, not a Torp boat, and adding sonar could be interesting. 

This sonar only has 3.12km range. It's more of a defensive tool 

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9 hours ago, _RC1138 said:

People say the same thing about the Kidd and I find it to be the most PTW boats in the game and a favorite of mine. I suspect, depending on how they handle this, the Cossack may be similar. Remember, the Cossack is a DD hunter, not a Torp boat, and adding sonar could be interesting. 

Defo agreed that Kidd is a pretty good ship, however it has access to USN smokes, an AA suite that shreds planes and a repair party that gives it I think close to 30k actual hp. In addition to all that, it has the high tier USN DD turret  rotations that can follow your ships movements perfectly. I just cant see how the Cossack, especially if it keeps the hydro it has (3.2km ship spotting and 2.7km torp spotting) will be able to cope with the competition. The only advantage it has so far is a detection of 5.6km I think if you count in CE and camo which puts it in T8 territory with regards to detection.

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8 hours ago, Plaatduutsch said:

This sonar only has 3.12km range. It's more of a defensive tool 

That's what makes it a DD hunter. Most DD vs. DD battles go very similarly. They are driving at each other, one spots the other and immediately turns to start firing torps, as does the other, then switch to guns. Now a smart DD hunter fires there torps BEFORE they both spot and are spotted, firing them at likely escape routes blind, so that WHEN they spot the enemy DD, they can focus solely on gunning them down. That extra 3-5 seconds the enemy wastes switching to, firing off, and switching back from torps is more than enough time to gain a DPS edge in the fight. *BUT* they did in fact fire those torps, and knowing how and when to turn to avoid will be aided greatly by sonar.

25 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

Defo agreed that Kidd is a pretty good ship, however it has access to USN smokes, an AA suite that shreds planes and a repair party that gives it I think close to 30k actual hp. In addition to all that, it has the high tier USN DD turret  rotations that can follow your ships movements perfectly. I just cant see how the Cossack, especially if it keeps the hydro it has (3.2km ship spotting and 2.7km torp spotting) will be able to cope with the competition. The only advantage it has so far is a detection of 5.6km I think if you count in CE and camo which puts it in T8 territory with regards to detection.

Again, in my eyes the Cossack will be a DD hunter, and a medium range fire-ship. They could outright remove the torps and it probably won't effect it's ability too greatly. You're going to, in it, want to use your stealth to outspot an enemy DD, watch to see how he decides to set himself up defensively, and then start firing accordingly, using your sonar to keep you safe from torps, you're great HE performance to keep him on fire/modules knocked out, and your extra gun barrels and better placement of said barrels (compared to other T7 DD's) to overwhelming him. This isn't going to be a KITING DD. This is going to be a charging DD. Imagine if the Kiev had a 5.4 km detection range and a significantly faster turret rotation: that's about how I imagine this will  play.

 

My only issue thus far with Cossack is it appears her X turret cannot turn 360 degrees, and that's a shame. I actually like the Gadjah a lot, and one of the reasons is 2 of her turrets are capable of 360 degree turns and that's awesome for keeping a target pressured regardless of your movement.

Edited by _RC1138
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15 hours ago, Dr_Dirt said:

I'd be all for delaying release long enough to test the Cossack with its older 4th turret

You just might have identified the timeline required before the British main-line DD's come out.

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46 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

My only issue thus far with Cossack is it appears her X turret cannot turn 360 degrees, and that's a shame. I actually like the Gadjah a lot, and one of the reasons is 2 of her turrets are capable of 360 degree turns and that's awesome for keeping a target pressured regardless of your movement.

Thats exactly my biggest gripe with what we know about the Cossack so far. What I think could be done is increase its rof from 12 to 15 instead, so we are looking at a 4 sec reload without crew skills. So you could either bring all your guns to bear but be an easy broadside target or just use the front ones only and have good rof while giving a small profile. This would also make it feel more like a rushing DD.

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17 hours ago, mofton said:

In my experience WG have almost never made a model change to a ship once it's in the testing process, we're downstream of them doing that. Adding gimmicks and changing stats is fine, but not a remodel.

 

Cossack was 8x 4.7in for the Altmark Incident and 2nd Battle of Narvik, but didn't have it for the encounter with Bismarck, which might be a bigger deal for WG.

This.  We begged for the original single turrets to be added back on Yubari many times, and it never happened.  I don't expect that there's much chance of a turret being added back on no matter how much sense it might make.

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Why can't Wg readd the 4th trop launcher back onto my shamikaze

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9 hours ago, MajorRenegade said:

Why can't Wg readd the 4th trop launcher back onto my shamikaze

Because shima never had the 4th launcher 

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21 hours ago, _RC1138 said:

People say the same thing about the Kidd and I find it to be the most PTW boats in the game and a favorite of mine. I suspect, depending on how they handle this, the Cossack may be similar. Remember, the Cossack is a DD hunter, not a Torp boat, and adding sonar could be interesting. 

Kidd rocks.  Gun boat with a heal.  What's not to like?

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18 minutes ago, Plaatduutsch said:

Because shima never had the 4th launcher 

umm it did back in close beta and open beta. Before they took off the 4th launcher to replace with a other turret due to nerf bat

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18 minutes ago, MajorRenegade said:

umm it did back in close beta and open beta. Before they took off the 4th launcher to replace with a other turret due to nerf bat

I mean historically 

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I for one am looking forward to the Cossack if for no other reason than the class impressive history in WW2.   I can ALSO say that if the guns have the same feel/accuracy as the Gallant which I've owned since day one, WG had better buff SOMETHING on the ship from it's current state if they expect to sell many of them.   Just the rear guns having to rotate all the way around the long way to engage targets on the other side is bad enough but hitting anything at range with those stratospheric shells is really hard.  At least the Americans  have a greater volume of shells and faster turrets to compensate for their slow shells.

The single biggest annoyance of the Cossack"s previewed stats is the long reload for its single launcher.  In practice the single launch mode gains you extremely little as in single mode, the first torp you launch does not even start to reload before the last is fired.  If you could launch two or three and save one in reserve while the first ones reload, it wouldn't be too bad but I have found very few cases where single launch torps on Gallant were of any benefit.

Really, it would be pretty easy to balance this ship without departing from the structural limitations of its turrets and torp tubes.   All it would take would be to have slightly longer duration smoke and slightly shorter reload time for the torps.  Even ten seconds shorter reload would make a difference.

I'm really hopeful they "fix" this ship before release and that it is sooner rather than later.

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