Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
Sabot_100

At what range will you change targets to a spotted DD?

35 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

259
[CVA16]
Members
2,178 posts
9,665 battles

Typically a DD gets spotted and everyone is supposed to try and sink it. However, I have found my hit rates on long range DDs is pretty poor. Shooting at them seems a waste of time.

My question is, at what range will you bother to try and take out a spotted DD? At 5k that DD is a priority target. What about 12k? 15k?

Obviously this somewhat depends on how floaty your shells are and what your health is.  I will limit this to two cases:

1. You do have other ships to shoot at but nothing demanding your immediate attention. 

2. You are currently unspotted and in range of several enemy ships. When is it worth breaking stealth to try to kill that DD?

Edited by Sabot_100

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
428
[INTEL]
Beta Testers
1,577 posts
3,918 battles

1.  If I have a decent chance of hitting the destroyer, I will generally shoot at it.  Even when I'm driving a battleship at ranges up to 12 or 15 km.

2.  Usually about three seconds ago.

But these answers are subjective, and that's just where I put the mark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
603
[HYDRO]
Members
1,323 posts
3,668 battles

I would also add it heavily depends on the DD in question. If a gunboat I might not take the shot if at range since he will have to keep firing to rack up damage/harass. If its a torpedo boat however, that is equally dangerous at full and 1k hp( could argue with AR even more so), I would try to take the shot. One habit I have picked up on is to wait on the DDs to start smoking up and fire the guns a fraction before they totally disappear in smoke, guaranteeing a stationary target.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
664
[UDEAD]
[UDEAD]
Beta Testers
1,026 posts
10,214 battles

1.  Enemy DD becomes a priority at sub 10k range, it can become "A" target at longer ranges but only if a potato is driving it in straight lines or big radius curves.

2.  If I have a good gun angle and It won't mess up my torp run or the intended torp targets behavior.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,819
Members
5,574 posts
7,121 battles

The majority can wreck a DD at 14k+ these days.

 

I'd say take a shot if you feel you have a good chance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
691
[SYN]
[SYN]
Members
2,874 posts
13,391 battles

Depends on how much you want a win, yes you will waste shots but one hit from a BB takes 25% of a DD health and gives your DDs an upper hand in the knife fight. 

Usually whoever has the most DDs after 5-10 minutes wins

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
175
[70]
Members
961 posts
3,691 battles

I would claim it is usually around 6 seconds shell flight, or about 10km, for most players shooting at mid-tier DDs, before they grow into the ginormous barns they get to be later on (or early in IJN lines)

If no one else is available to shoot, then shooting at any range is fine, but I'd on;y switch to a DD at sub-6-second shell flight unless he's a total scrub driver.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,589
[SALVO]
Members
16,627 posts
17,300 battles

First off, it can be a bit tier dependent, since at lower tiers, BB guns can be rather inaccurate and trying to shoot DDs at around 10 km may be rather iffy.  But let's say that the tier is high enough for decently accurate fire.  I'm not really keen on shooting DDs at ranges over 10 km if I have a better shot at something else, i.e. better shot often meaning a broadside shot.  However, if I see a DD over 10 km away that looks to be a single hit to kill, I'll always sling some shells at him.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,143 posts
3,273 battles

It depends on my Range from the DD and what type of Friendly DD is counter-spotting. 

If I'm outside effective Torpedo Ranges I'll ignore and fire at more pressing targets like an RC; Radar Cruiser. Until I'm within 11km or the DD is capable of spotting me naturally. The closer I can get before natural spotting the more likely I'll hit my opening salvo. 

The only exceptions to this is IF the friendly DD is IJN. Unless the Red DD is also IJN the likelihood of the friendly surviving is low. At which point I'll immediately provide covering fire until the Red DD is destroyed or retreats. After which I'll return focus to the RCs. The type exception might also be granted to PADDs since they're torps are useless in a knife fight. But I haven't run into many PADDs since their release. At least friendly ones; seen plenty Red PADDs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
259
[CVA16]
Members
2,178 posts
9,665 battles
15 hours ago, Fishrokk said:

2.  Usually about three seconds ago.

My assumption was that your ship went silent because those several red ships were previously targeting you or you are trying to work into a more favorable position before opening fire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
428
[INTEL]
Beta Testers
1,577 posts
3,918 battles
23 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

My assumption was that your ship went silent because those several red ships were previously targeting you or you are trying to work into a more favorable position before opening fire.

I was being a bit facetious, but not too much, really.  If I'm driving a:

1) DD - that destroyer is the competition, and my biggest obstacle to sinking his teammates with (relative) ease.  I want him gone.

2) CA/CL - that destroyer is food, that's primarily what I'm here to kill.

3) BB - that destroyer is trying to kill me, kill him first!

But, balancing that with breaking cover to fire on him, if I'm driving a:

1) DD - Mmm, there's a lot of reds around.  Maybe you do it, Mr. Cruiser?  I'll just send them some pretty metal fishes to play with.

2) CA/CL - Depending on how tanky the ship is (hahahaha) and how close I am to cover, I'll probably start shooting if I'm covered from all but one or two of the enemy.  That DD is definitely the priority target, though.  Three or more shooting back at that range is probably too many.

3) BB - Who are we kidding, I'm already spotted.  But if one of those other ships is a broadside cruiser...

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,512 posts
7,972 battles

Hey

For me it depends what kind of ship I'm in and whats are the immediate dynamics of the game at that moment in time; if I am in a DD; then my first fight is the opposing DD if he is within a range that's detrimental to my survival, if he is farther away then maybe being gun silent is the way to go.  If I am in a cruiser, then by all means, my job is to eliminate that DD who could harm my team, if I am in a BB and there are no enemy cruisers to hurt then I will take shots out on that DD.  Because in a BB; a dead DD is a good DD.  The biggest problem is selfish play versus team play especially when getting caps, too many people don't try to back up their team and would rather farm damage the easiest way possible and that doesn't help your side win, which makes for far better money, xp, and everything else.  The important thing for the DD is getting caps since this is how you win but he needs help to do this and stay alive, secondly is spotting, no ship can hit what they can't see and DD have a low detection for a reason but I'm seeing more and more DD's who just want to sail around dropping torps from long range, not playing an objective, not trying to hunt and catch that lone BB, far away from cap points.  Cruisers are in bad ways, they don't have the armor to fight BB's and when they do support their DD's, they get wrecked because some BB's (at times all) are still sitting in spawn not backing their cruisers, sailing slower while 1/2 way into a game, the DD's are nearly dead, the cruiser are wrecked beyond being useful and the BBabies are nearly full health but by then the game is all but over.  Nothing worse than super slow BB going to one side of a map and then is complete useless for the 2nd half of the game.  Sorry for the rant but people need to understand that the game is about team and less about them.  When our DD's win, our cruisers win, then we win but if everyone just does whatever they want, there is less winning and more losing.

 

Pete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
99
[C-1]
[C-1]
Members
341 posts
6,569 battles

1: Focusing on the ship showing the most broadside. If there is no target providing a perfect silhouette to fire at, or the enemy DD is closer to within 15km's (10km for my US cruisers), I will focus on it instead then.

2: When I know that I will kill it; preferably before I get focused and killed by the entire enemy team.

Those are the official answers. What usually happens though, at the moment a DD is spotted, is I fire blindly in its general direction, missing all shots and wondering to myself why I even bothered.

 

The questions however vary from ship to ship and nation to nation.

The US cruisers are great (and apparently designed) for hunting down DD's. They have a concealment range that can put them right next to an enemy DD without being seen. British ships are the same. However, British ships guns fire straighter making 15km ranges doable against DDs; while at 15km's with US guns is really hard to pull off.

US guns are good at 10km or below. But they don't have much kick and so needs support if they are to take out a enemy DD in a narrow window of time.

British cruisers can take out DD's rather quickly but are fragile and if spotted or focused run the risk of being KO'd the moment they break cover. So breaking cover, when surrounded by enemies, is not an worthwhile option.

German ships are best used to focus on other larger ships and only if in dire need, should focus on DD's. But they can take a hit so can open up just about whenever. It's not like they will be "sneaking" up on anything anyways.

Russian ships are good against DD's at nearly any range since they can spew enough rounds to saturate the area. So around 15km's or so is perfectly fine. <The closer the better. Same as the Germans in "sneaking"... You're more likely to be spotted and targeted well before you can get into 15km's. So "Spray and Pray" at range.

Japanese ships are ok but it would be best to get in closer... say between 10 and 15km's. You've got a good chance of getting in close enough to get the guns to optimal range where your chances of hitting and killing the DD are good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
99
[PVE]
Members
500 posts
4,127 battles

I go by my shell flight time and I typically draw the line at 10 seconds. I feel it is worth potentially wasting 1 salvo on a chance to nail a DD or chase it away so I will almost always throw at least 1 salvo at it if it is 10 seconds away or less.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
259
[CVA16]
Members
2,178 posts
9,665 battles
2 hours ago, MasterDiggs said:

I go by my shell flight time and I typically draw the line at 10 seconds. I feel it is worth potentially wasting 1 salvo on a chance to nail a DD or chase it away so I will almost always throw at least 1 salvo at it if it is 10 seconds away or less.

Might be a good rule of thumb. Have to try it out. Hate contributing to a DDs speed-tanking when I could be shooting at something else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32
[ES]
Members
153 posts
13,563 battles

Depends on the ship I am driving in a Hindy 15mk would be max, Des somewhere around 10KM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moderator
360 posts
194 battles
On 2/8/2018 at 5:59 AM, vikingno2 said:

Depends on the ship I am driving in a Hindy 15mk would be max, Des somewhere around 10KM

This is my general procedure as well. With the shell float on the Des Moines, I don't like to shoot at DDs much further than radar range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,015
[ABDA]
Beta Testers
16,020 posts
11,539 battles

Any range I think I can influence them at, depending on risk.  If I can drop shells around them, it can make them move away from me.  I don't have to hit, I have to scare them.  if the risk is too great to my ship then I'll only shoot when I think I can score hits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
108
[TURDS]
Members
552 posts
3,646 battles
On 2/7/2018 at 4:31 PM, MasterDiggs said:

I go by my shell flight time and I typically draw the line at 10 seconds. I feel it is worth potentially wasting 1 salvo on a chance to nail a DD or chase it away so I will almost always throw at least 1 salvo at it if it is 10 seconds away or less.

Sensing,

On 2/7/2018 at 6:55 PM, Sabot_100 said:

Might be a good rule of thumb. Have to try it out. Hate contributing to a DDs speed-tanking when I could be shooting at something else.

a

On 2/8/2018 at 4:59 AM, vikingno2 said:

Depends on the ship I am driving in a Hindy 15mk would be max, Des somewhere around 10KM

theme here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,726
[ARGSY]
Members
5,816 posts
3,974 battles

What ship am I in, and what else is going on?

In a DD: likely I am very close, and he is posing me an immediate threat. Gun him down now. Torp him if I can (e.g. run aground, engine dead, AFK, so close I can't miss). 

In a cruiser: my reload time is short enough that I can squirt a salvo of opportunity his way and wait to see what happens. Unless I am actively engaged in a gun duel with another cruiser or a battleship that is just a couple of thousand HP away from sinking, I can spare the time. I had a game in my Fiji last night in which I didn't do much, but two (damaged) enemy destroyers fell to single-salvo blaps-o-doom. One of those had 12 shell hits recorded in the end-game analysis, which means I either must have scraped him for a few HP earlier or EVERY shell from the killing salvo landed.

In a battleship: Unless my ship is a secondaries-spitting monster and his health is measured in less than a thousand, my secondaries probably aren't going to cut it; he's going to live to fight another day and launch another salvo, with who knows what consequences. Yet if I give him a main gun salvo (firing enough shells to ensure a hit), my reload's not going to be up for another 30 seconds and I have to consider what's coming my way in terms of other capital ships. @Lord_Zath is always on everyone's backs to SHOOT THE DESTROYER, but a couple of times I've gone out of my way to do that it's got me caught with empty barrels in front of other battleships. To what extent is one battleship for two destroyers a fair trade?

On the other hand, the alternative - not killing the destroyer - is potentially so much worse that it's worth losing my badly wounded battleship for. There are some occasions (i.e. when he is a direct threat) that it's clear: If I kill him, I die to the enemy battleship; if I don't kill him, he torpedoes me with the same end result. If so, then might as well kill him and get him off the map. If I've got large company coming and islands between me and the DD, let him go; there are bigger fish to fry and they bite harder.

I don't have any carriers, so I can't speak for that.

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,561
[-K-]
WoWS Wiki Editor, Members, Supertester, WoWS Community Contributors
4,681 posts
15,199 battles

1. You do have other ships to shoot at but nothing demanding your immediate attention. 

YES.  100%.  INFINITE RANGE SHOOT THE DD.

2. You are currently unspotted and in range of several enemy ships. When is it worth breaking stealth to try to kill that DD?

NO.  100%.  DO NOT SHOOT THE DD UNTIL SPOTTED - or at least only if all enemy ships are beating up on someone else and/or you have a teammate that's closer to the enemy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
156
[R-R-R]
Members
970 posts
6,427 battles

There is no definitive answer to this question. It depends on a lot of things.

First of all, the particular ship you are in matters a lot. For example, if I were in a USN DD, and I see an enemy DD kiting away at 8-9km. I won't even open fire. But if I were in a Russian DD, I would shoot immediately.

Then you might have multiple targets you can shoot at. As a BB, I might prioritize on shooting at a broadside cruisers at 13km rather than a wiggling DD at 10km.

Last, you have to weight the risk vs rewards as well. If you are in, say, a Yamato, you might not be able to turn your turrets in time and are forced to turn your ship to show broadside. If there happens to be other BB AP threat, you probably won't take the risk.

Edited by Exciton8964

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
9,434 posts
11,601 battles

if the DD is in torp range,  you want to shoot it. chances are, if it is spotted, it is in torp range  though  lol.          

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
259
[CVA16]
Members
2,178 posts
9,665 battles
On 2/22/2018 at 11:20 PM, Exciton8964 said:

There is no definitive answer to this question. It depends on a lot of things.

First of all, the particular ship you are in matters a lot. For example, if I were in a USN DD, and I see an enemy DD kiting away at 8-9km. I won't even open fire. But if I were in a Russian DD, I would shoot immediately.

Then you might have multiple targets you can shoot at. As a BB, I might prioritize on shooting at a broadside cruisers at 13km rather than a wiggling DD at 10km.

Last, you have to weight the risk vs rewards as well. If you are in, say, a Yamato, you might not be able to turn your turrets in time and are forced to turn your ship to show broadside. If there happens to be other BB AP threat, you probably won't take the risk.

All valid points. I did post this in the cruiser subforum since obviously it is a bigger deal for BBs to change targets. IJN heavy cruisers come in a close second. Even in  most cruisers, if your turrets are 180 degrees from the DD, you are not likely to change targets unless the DD is closing in on YOU. The DD will be dead or invisible before you can get your guns locked on. You lose too much potential damage to the enemy while the guns move.

Lots of different gun performances. Have to be closer to bother shooting with derpy  US guns than say Russian rail guns. As some have mentioned, using shell flight time (less than 10 seconds) may be a good general rule. Then there is the wet-ware performance issue. If you (I) personally have trouble predicting where the damn squirmy DD is going to be in 10 seconds, you (I) may need to use a lower value threshold.

The concept of the question was that you do have something else to shoot at (or are avoiding shooting at anything to keep your concealment) and a DD pops up in range, but it is not your easiest target to shoot. When do YOU think it is worth taking the shot?

Lots of good answers already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
156
[R-R-R]
Members
970 posts
6,427 battles
14 hours ago, Sabot_100 said:

All valid points. I did post this in the cruiser subforum since obviously it is a bigger deal for BBs to change targets. IJN heavy cruisers come in a close second. Even in  most cruisers, if your turrets are 180 degrees from the DD, you are not likely to change targets unless the DD is closing in on YOU. The DD will be dead or invisible before you can get your guns locked on. You lose too much potential damage to the enemy while the guns move.

Lots of different gun performances. Have to be closer to bother shooting with derpy  US guns than say Russian rail guns. As some have mentioned, using shell flight time (less than 10 seconds) may be a good general rule. Then there is the wet-ware performance issue. If you (I) personally have trouble predicting where the damn squirmy DD is going to be in 10 seconds, you (I) may need to use a lower value threshold.

The concept of the question was that you do have something else to shoot at (or are avoiding shooting at anything to keep your concealment) and a DD pops up in range, but it is not your easiest target to shoot. When do YOU think it is worth taking the shot?

Lots of good answers already.

I think in general, shooting DDs as a cruiser has the best reward/risk ratio. Your HE rounds hurt DDs much more than other cruisers and BBs. So even if they are not the easiest target to shoot at, the potential reward is still too high to pass.

For BBs, there is much more trade-off to consider between cruisers and DDs. Personally, I tend to prioritize shooting aggressive cruisers. They are bigger threat to your team's DD than enemy DDs.

For DD themselves, self-safety is the most important thing. You need good situational awareness to make these decisions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×