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ARCNA442

Torpedo Tips?

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I haven't been able to make torpedoes work for me. Are there any basic rules of thumb about when and how to use them?

Long range or short range?

Wide spread or narrow?

Fire one mount at a time or fire all of them at once?

Something else I haven't even thought of?

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The most important thing about making torpedoes work is predicting where enemies will be.  They have long travel times, so it's better to aim them where you think the enemy will go rather than where the indicator shows them currently going.

 

If the enemy is in open water or holding at low speed to keep their armor angled toward an enemy battleship, then maybe the indicator is right and you should just aim at that.  But more often you'll want to aim down channels where you expect the enemy to turn, or at the edges of islands or into smoke screens where you suspect undetected enemies are lurking.  I get most of my torpedo hits by aiming at empty water where I think an enemy might be.

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13 minutes ago, ARCNA442 said:

Something else I haven't even thought of?

Torp range.

And consider target vector.  A ship in range, but headed away often won't be in range by the time the torps run out.  A ship out of range, but headed toward you can sometimes enter range before torps run out.

 

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For me, as a rule I don't use my trops unless a BB traps my CA in a dark scary corner alone with a visable white van in the background. 

:Smile_hiding:

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Always fire narrow spread, and remember that targets moving away from you might be out of range by the time your torpedoes catch up.

Try to launch from as close as you can get without being spotted.

Most players will try to turn when they the torpedoes, so adjust your aim slightly.

If you have multiple launchers, "fan" the aim points slightly to create an overlapping torpedo zone that allows for slight changes in target course or speed.

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"Wall of Skill"

This describes a common tactic for DDs that typically can launch 8 or more torps at once. If using the aiming indicator as reference, fire one launcher on the front half of the indicator and the other on the back half, spreading the torps across a very wide area. (Usually used with narrow spread.)

I pretty much never use wide spread unless in knife fighting range (<4km) against a fast or highly maneuverable target, such as an enemy DD or some cruisers. Otherwise, it's too easy for most ships to only take one torp or dodge them completely.

Try to avoid firing torpedoes at head-on targets. Unless using Royal Navy ships, even a narrow spread will cause most of the torps to miss wide. RN ships can launch single torps, so they are much better against these targets.

Since you're still at low tier, you really need to pay additional attention to torpedo range, especially with US or Soviet ships. They have short ranges and normally cannot be launched outside of detection range. IJN DDs can usually fire torps from just outside of detection range, aka "stealth torping".  Low tier US and Soviet DDs usually only use torpedoes from ambush or as a last resort Ranges get better with higher tiers, allowing US DDs to stealth torp. Soviet DDs with their higher detection ranges usually can't.

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47 minutes ago, ARCNA442 said:

I haven't been able to make torpedoes work for me. Are there any basic rules of thumb about when and how to use them?

Books could be written.  Seriously.  The plain & simple, generic, basic rules include:

  1. If you're in a cruiser with torpedoes, just forget that you have torpedoes for at least your first 500 matches.  Overall, I mean, not in one ship.  Your guns are your primary weapon, and I would own WarGaming by now if I had a dollar for every time I've seen a cruiser lose a fight or let a low-health opponent escape because they were screwing around with their torpedoes instead of shooting.
  2. Pay attention to the green ships before you launch, as well as the red ships.  While the green ones are generally easier to hit and don't shoot back as much, most of them get quite offended when you torpedo them and after awhile your name turns pink.
  3. If you're in a battleship with torpedoes, just forget that you have torpedoes...you know the rest of this.
  4. Know the range of your torpedoes.  I'd own Russia by now if I had a dollar for every time I saw someone launch 4km torpedoes at a target 12km away.
  5. Don't get into the habit of making high speed YOLO runs against battleships over open water.  With many low tier destroyers this will work, but once you get past tier 4 you are going to get wrecked every single time you try it.
  6. Never fire a torpedo at a target that you can kill with less than 3 gun salvos.  This ties in with #1, but is also true when you're in a destroyer yourself.
56 minutes ago, ARCNA442 said:

Long range or short range?

It's a balancing act.  The shorter the range, the more likely you are to hit your opponent with multiple torpedoes.  The longer the range, the less likely you are to take damage in the process.  In the most general terms as a new player, you want to get as close as you can before launching, while still remaining undetected.  Note that many low tier destroyers do not appear to have the ability to attack with torpedoes while remaining in concealment...this is where terrain and smoke come into play.

1 hour ago, ARCNA442 said:

Wide spread or narrow?

99.9% of the time a narrow spread is better.  Wide spreads are mostly only useful when launching massive torpedo salvos to cover an area of ocean, rather than directly aimed at a ship...and low tier destroyers do not have the ability to launch that many torpedoes at once, or at least not at a distance where you won't have detected all enemy ships already.

1 hour ago, ARCNA442 said:

Fire one mount at a time or fire all of them at once?

This can be situational, but in general you want to fire all of them at once to ensure the highest hit percentage.  There are times when holding a set in reserve is a good move, for example when an enemy ship is about to round an island within spitting distance of you but you're also spotted and are afraid he'll make a last-minute turn or speed change...but for the most part if you need to ask the question, you're better off letting them all go at once.

1 hour ago, ARCNA442 said:

Something else I haven't even thought of?

Tons.  What targets you should prioritize with your torpedoes, what angles you should attack from, how to adjust your aim when your target is turning, how to read the minimap in order to project course changes your target might make between when you launch and when the torpedoes arrive...this is where that book comes into play.  The best advice I can give to any new destroyer player is to hop into the tier II Japanese DD "Umikaze" and play it until you can consistently land multiple torpedo salvos per game.  I recommend that particular ship because once you've upgraded the base torpedoes (which should only take 1 game to unlock) you'll have the ability to launch torpedoes from well outside your detection range, and said torpedoes reload extremely quickly (so more opportunities to practice per game).

As you play more games and develop more questions, you can stop back here (or on the Destroyers sub-forum), spend some time on YouTube watching replay analyses or tips & tricks videos, or start digging through the WoWs wiki.

Good luck! :Smile_honoring:

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A rule of thumb that I follow for narrow/wide spread:

Narrow always, with some exceptions. Exceptions are as follows:

1) Covering a cap early game to possibly strike at a DD.

2) Torping into a cluster of ships. You'll sometimes want a wide spread, or depending on the number of tubes/launchers you have, vary between narrow and wide. This increases your chances of getting a hit on a target. Someone is bound to not be paying attention and will eat a torp, and even one torpedo can be devastating to any ship other than maybe a BB.

3) Launching against cruisers. Cruisers are faster and more maneuverable than battleships. In my experience, I've found that sometimes you can more reliably score hits with a wide spread as it covers a larger area, so any evasive maneuvers the cruiser makes may not necessarily throw off the salvo. A narrow spread is easier to throw off completely with course and speed adjustments.*

4) Launching on a spotted DD. Much like firing at a cruiser, DDs being more maneuverable and erratic in their evasive maneuvers makes them more difficult to predict exactly where they'll be. Using a wide spread can increase your chances of catching the DD off guard and getting a torp hit.*

5) Saturating a smoke cloud at medium/close range. If you know or think that a ship may be in smoke, and you're at a relatively close range, or medium range, you can use a wide spread to ensure you cover the entire cloud. Just in case any ship inside has moved to the very edge of the smoke(RN CLs tend to do this from my observation, they lay smoke, then sit at the front or back edge, inside just far enough to prevent LoS on them from targets).

6) Launching on a low HP BB(typically one that only needs one torpedo hit to be sunk or left on less than a few hundred HP). This isn't necessarily an exception, but sometimes it's a good idea to use a wide spread on at least one launcher against low HP BBs, just in case they're not running full ahead or decide to angle in/away. It increases your chances of striking one torpedo since you'll cover a wider area. It can be better than the whole salvo going to waste because the target preemptively dodged or made a course adjustment you didn't/can't account for(such as a full 180).

*Note that there are situations that call for narrow spreads for both of these examples. It takes practice to learn these, and even then you'll come across opponents that do something unexpected, or react just in time to avoid the torpedoes.

 

There's probably one or two more, but I can't think of them at the moment. All in all, it comes down to experience. The more you play torpedo-centric DDs, the more you'll get a feel for when to use a wide spread vs a narrow spread and the more chances you'll have to experiment yourself to see what could work best in certain situations.

Edited by GhostSwordsman

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Range: 

You want to be as close as possible whilst still in stealth.     You also need to avoid radar and hydro at higher tiers so you need to be very cautious until you know where radar and hydro ships are, and of course what range their radar/hydro is.

Torping:

With torp salvos I have found this basic tactic to work well particularly in lower tiers.  Assuming you have two sets of torps send the first set behind the target with a 40-50% overlap of the grey indicator. Send the second set send ahead of the target with a 50-60% overlap of the indicator. 

4mVtfA5.png

 

The idea here is that you are trying to corral them into your second set of torps. Typical reaction when seeing torps is to judge where they are heading and to turn &/or alter speed to avoid them.

You want them to react to the first set by increasing speed and not turning as they will believe they can outrun them. If they do you will have a fair chance that they will run into the full spread of your second set. If they slow down or turn your first set has a better chance of hitting.   It’s all about learning to judge how your target will react and adapting accordingly. For instance if they slammed on the brakes and turned in when you sent the first salvos on the next attack you would send the first set as before but send the second set well behind the first. If they try the same tactic they eat the second set.

As you play more you will get better at predicting how switched on they are. At high tiers it gets very hard to hit a good player!

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If you're in smoke with someone driving straight at you, launch one narrow set when they get close; they'll turn to dodge it and present perfect broadside for you to slam a full narrow spread into their side.

 

Same principle when you're playing ring around the rosy with someone.  One narrow salvo where you think they'll round the corner; chances are the expect torps and will slam the breaks to dodge the first spread them barrel around thinking you already blew your load and are helpless.

 

Against targets angled in towards you, expect them to decrease their bearing to you when they see torps; put one narrow spread right on their track so they turn in... have your second spread waiting for when they slide by you at close range.

 

Use wide spreads to saturate smoke clouds unless you're sure of where the enemy is due to terrain restricting them.  Also think of where they expect torps to come from.  Dds that smoke in caps typically will be bow on towards your span so they can dodge torps, try to hit smoke clouds from unexpected angles.

 

At long ranges against bow campers, use wide spread from odd angles, the objective isn't to actually hit (tho that's not unwelcome) it's to get the target to turn and expose their citadel to your teammates guns.

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Try this:

There are a lot of good threads in the guides forum.

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Never shot them at BB that sail in a straight line, they get salty and call you a cheater.

Never shot them into smoke because a DD sit there, he will call you a hacker.

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I was convinced that this thread was about tornadoes, I think I have occasional dyslesxia

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Remember that the aim indicator tells you where to shoot if they maintain their current course and speed.

It also tells you, by the direction it moves, whether this is changing. If the change is too fast, you will likely miss with torpedoes whatever you do. If it's changing more slowly, you can lead your torpedo spreads ahead of the direction it's swinging (the same way you would with guns) and try to anticipate the change.

Ships that are proximity detected (behind islands or in smoke < 2km away) or spotted by your allies or by hydroacoustic search (depending on your ship's options0 can still be targeted, and seeing that indicator move can tell you which side of the island they will appear around. If your ship has torps to spare, you can leave a surprise in the water for them and if your timing is right, sometimes they will blunder into it. Bots cheat; the AI knows where your torpedoes are at all times, and is less likely to fall for this trick. However, I'm told you can fool it by disengaging the aim indicator (hit X) just before you pull the trigger on the torps.

If at first you don't succeed, go back down the tiers until you find a ship with lots of launchers, lots of torpedoes and a fast reload (the Clemson and Wickes work well for this) and practise, practise, practise.

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Pay attention to the direction a BBs guns are pointing.  If you catch them looking the other way, you can sometimes drive right up next to them...and Ka-boom...like...you can't miss.

Also recognize that once you are close enough, most DDs (and CAs for that matter, but CAs often get spotted too soon) can move faster than most BB turrets can traverse.  Unless a lucky secondary det occurs, you will be surprised how easy it is to waltz around a BB at close range... take your time....and line up a kill  shot.

In the early stages of the DD experience, there is this feeling that BBs are big beast with big guns that can really put the hurt on a DD.  While this is true...IF they get a bead on you, quite often those turrets don't turn fast enough.  So getting in knife fight close to a BB in a DD is often quite safe in the low to mid tiers...and even in the high tiers (but with less margin for error, or requiring more cunning tactics as spotted DDs die quickly in the top tiers). 

Aside:  This is one reason why lone BBs are somewhat easy targets for DDs and why mutual support is often so critical.  A supporting CA or DD goes a long way to preventing this tactic.  But if you find a lone one...then it makes the aiming easy...and you get LOTS of hits, and often a Devastating Strike.

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10 hours ago, ARCNA442 said:

I haven't been able to make torpedoes work for me. Are there any basic rules of thumb about when and how to use them?

Long range or short range?

Wide spread or narrow?

Fire one mount at a time or fire all of them at once?

Something else I haven't even thought of?

My 1 tip would be to fire your torpedoes as close as possible, try to approach a target as close as possible without being detected. Fire at the indicator , i usually do 1 torp rack half on half left and 1 rack half on half right. 

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10 hours ago, ARCNA442 said:

I haven't been able to make torpedoes work for me. Are there any basic rules of thumb about when and how to use them?

Long range or short range?

Wide spread or narrow?

Fire one mount at a time or fire all of them at once?

Something else I haven't even thought of?

I see that you don't really play Destroyers....remember that the low tier cruisers you are currently playing usually have weaker short range torps that are meant for close in engagements. Just how are they not working for you?

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3 hours ago, SgtSpud said:

I see that you don't really play Destroyers....remember that the low tier cruisers you are currently playing usually have weaker short range torps that are meant for close in engagements. Just how are they not working for you?

My main problem is just hitting anything - although reading this thread I think part of my issue was that I was mostly using wide spreads. I sort of stopped playing destroyers mainly because I couldn't achieve much with the torpedoes without getting so close that I was quickly sunk. With cruisers it's a rare battle that I even hit the 3 key.

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14 hours ago, ARCNA442 said:

I haven't been able to make torpedoes work for me. Are there any basic rules of thumb about when and how to use them?

Long range or short range?

Wide spread or narrow?

Fire one mount at a time or fire all of them at once?

Something else I haven't even thought of?

Imagine the torps as super slow shells.

Wrote the following for something else, but it applies here (with some edits):

Quote

 

2. Maximizing Camo Value:

Self explanatory, in order to maximize effective torpedo runs, the run time of the torpedoes in water must be reduced to as little as possible. Get in as close as possible to your target then launch the torpedoes. This also means keeping a very comprehensive awareness of the match. Knowing where the enemy DDs are, avoiding possible planes that can spot you, as well as exploit any holes left  open in the enemy's fleet. Avoiding planes including avoiding route of planes launching and retrieving from a CV.

3. Effective Torpedo Salvos:

DO NOT chase a ship, or launch torpedoes from the stern of an enemy, unless you are point blank. It increases the actual distance you and your torpedoes have to travel and drastically increase time to impact giving your prey more time to evade.

The white line only helps you gauging enemy course changes and accelerations. Try to not rely on them to find the lead for your torpedoes. Imagine you are your target and how the target would react in its position at that moment in the match. Will it turn to engage? Slow down to fire more salvos? Or U turn to change position? The lead depends on captain's experience.

Whenever possible, get in dead close to your target and unleash your entire payload. Time your turn in accordance to your torpedo tubes' firing angles. 

Don't bother with loose spread, tight spread only. If you want to increase chance to hit at long range, offset the tubes slightly with each other in the direction of target's travel. So that torpedoes together will cover a larger area. A loose spread leaves too big of a gap and gives the enemy easy holes to evade. Think of it as a casting a net with small holes not large ones.

4. The Approach:

NEVER CHASE. Approach head on so the enemy is approaching you as you approach them, cutting time of interception drastically. Need to identify types of shells a BB has loaded, more times than not giving a BB loaded with AP your broadside can give you the slight edge to survive and use the BB's reloading time to further close the distance for a decisive torpedo strike.

Combine all points above to make an effective approach.

5. Point Elimination:

Identify a target that can be approached, usually one that's somewhat isolated or going around an obstacle. Target should not be in CV's plane launching and retrieving lines. If target has spotter planes in air, try to time it so you can approach when the spotter plane moves away, giving you more time until spotted.

 

 

Edited by NeutralState

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2 minutes ago, ARCNA442 said:

My main problem is just hitting anything - although reading this thread I think part of my issue was that I was mostly using wide spreads. I sort of stopped playing destroyers mainly because I couldn't achieve much with the torpedoes without getting so close that I was quickly sunk. With cruisers it's a rare battle that I even hit the 3 key.

Yeah, I went and looked at your stats & saw that you're just playing cruisers now, but most of what I typed above still applies to cruiser play--especially "rule" #1. :Smile-_tongue:

The American DDs you tried out aren't really meant as torpedo boats, which is why you had so many issues with them.  They instead play as gunboats, with their specialties being hunting down other destroyers and using smoke/terrain to rain down HE on larger ships from long range.  Trying out the low-tier Japanese DDs will allow you to truly experience ships which rely on their torpedoes above all else, and should help your torpedo skills with any ship.

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Approach target at 90 degree angle. Fire torps at 45 degree angle. I try to get as close as possible but out of detection range Fire and turn away. Use 5% captain skill for torp speed. Use narrow torp spread one on target 1/2 in front 1/2 behind. GL

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When Aiming Torpedoes best way of visualizing spread patterns is by imagining the fingers on your hand (provided you have a full set) or a glove. 

Take your Pointer, Middle, and Ring fingers and squeeze them together pointing straight; Thumb holding your Pinkie down.

As you spread your fingers apart in similar to how Torpedo Spreads react. For a Triple Launcher your physical fingers are your Torpedo spread. For a Quad Launcher the spaces between your 3 fingers is your rough Torpedo spread.  

Basically 2 torps will Always head down the edges of your aiming indicator. Everything else will be Equally Spaced between the outer 2. 

Hence the "odd valued" launchers will tend to feel more accurate than the "even valued" because 1 Torpedo will always head down the center of the indicator. 

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On 2/6/2018 at 12:01 AM, Soshi_Sone said:

Torp range.

And consider target vector.  A ship in range, but headed away often won't be in range by the time the torps run out.  A ship out of range, but headed toward you can sometimes enter range before torps run out.

 

Basically, it's virtually always best to fire from the side and from in front of the target -  as Soshi said, that way you can "extend" the effective range of your torps.  It also has the benefit of  a faster closing speed, meaning less time to react.

You always need to consider the situation, put yourself in the mindset of your target.  Where is the target's attention going to be, is the player going to be preoccupied?  Players are far more likely to see torps early if they are coming in from the direction of their targets (IE, you are between the red and green BB's).  But, if their guns are facing port, and you launch from starboard, there's a good chance they won't know what's coming until after the torp warning has gone off.  If they are focused in a brawl or knife fight, and you have an angle that won't sink your buddy, it's a good time to launch.

Wide or narrow?  Depends, really.  Is it more important to try for all or nothing spreads,  or is just getting a torp hit going to do the job?  I tend to switch up, because a player will start to take for granted your attacks, a wide spread with a narrow spread nestled just behind it can be incredibly hard to avoid getting hit by.

I also tend to stagger launches, the later one taking advantage of the expected dodge. 

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