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Xero_Snake

In response to Kronshtadt & Stalingrad outrage - people still don't get the reasons why Soviet CLs came before British CLs

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Observing from the outrage from a portion of community on the reveal of Kronshtadt & Stalingrad.... Even now, people still don't get the reason why the Soviet/Russian light cruisers came out before the British light cruisers. They never understood the fact that incomplete ships & paper ships are much easier & more flexible to tweak its in-game parameters while loosely based on the draft specs - be it design study, preliminary or final. On the other hand, real completed ships have little rooms for changing its parameters.

Let's say if incomplete/paper ship is OP, devs can easily make changes whenever it suits the gaming balance. But never mind CV gameplay as it's still somewhat broken. However, if real ship is turn out OP, they will surely have hard time to make up its power creep. This is why majority of top tier ships are either paper or incomplete ships.

Still, why not rather have Russian guinea pigs to test the water & take the bullets than having their precious British ships that could potentially become broken upon first release?

Look, you guys can have no love about WG or Russia, but mind you, they too want to have a room of compassion to enjoy what they are doing. Not because of appeasing Russian audiences just to give you a negative impressions about Russians being a rabid nationalists, that's false.

Also, I'm maybe not a reputable person in here like Lert & LWM, you can disagree with me or don't like me whenever you wish, but I don't care. I just enjoy doing what I like.

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7 minutes ago, Xero_Snake said:

Observing from the outrage from a portion of community on the reveal of Kronshtadt & Stalingrad.... Even now, people still don't get the reason why the Soviet/Russian light cruisers came out before the British light cruisers. They never understood the fact that incomplete ships & paper ships are much easier & more flexible to tweak its in-game parameters while loosely based on the draft specs - be it design study, preliminary or final. On the other hand, real completed ships have little rooms for changing its parameters.

Let's say if incomplete/paper ship is OP, devs can easily make changes whenever it suits the gaming balance. But never mind CV gameplay as it's still somewhat broken. However, if real ship is turn out OP, they will surely have hard time to make up its power creep. This is why majority of top tier ships are either paper or incomplete ships.

Still, why not rather have Russian guinea pigs to test the water & take the bullets than having their precious British ships that could potentially become broken upon first release?

Look, you guys can have no love about WG or Russia, but mind you, they too want to have a room of compassion to enjoy what they are doing. Not because of appeasing Russian audiences just to give you a negative impressions about Russians being a rabid nationalists, that's false.

Also, I'm maybe not a reputable person in here like Lert & LWM, you can disagree with me or don't like me whenever you wish, but I don't care. I just enjoy doing what I like.

Its a Russian company, their first and most important clientele is the European server because that's where most of the players are. They have their own preferences, which are quite different from those of the players on the NA server. For example, most Russian players don't give a damn about Alaska - while Americans are crazy about it. Therefore WG will likely address concerns of European community before the American community because that's where they get most of their players.

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Just now, Ulthwey said:

Its a Russian company, their first and most important clientele is the European server because that's where most of the players are. They have their own preferences, which are quite different from those of the players on the NA server. For example, most Russian players don't give a damn about Alaska - while Americans are crazy about it. Therefore WG will likely address concerns of European community before the American community because that's where they get most of their players.

Uh huh, I'll keep that in mind

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14 minutes ago, Xero_Snake said:

Observing from the outrage from a portion of community on the reveal of Kronshtadt & Stalingrad.... Even now, people still don't get the reason why the Soviet/Russian light cruisers came out before the British light cruisers. They never understood the fact that incomplete ships & paper ships are much easier & more flexible to tweak its in-game parameters while loosely based on the draft specs - be it design study, preliminary or final. On the other hand, real completed ships have little rooms for changing its parameters.

Let's say if incomplete/paper ship is OP, devs can easily make changes whenever it suits the gaming balance. But never mind CV gameplay as it's still somewhat broken. However, if real ship is turn out OP, they will surely have hard time to make up its power creep. This is why majority of top tier ships are either paper or incomplete ships.

Still, why not rather have Russian guinea pigs to test the water & take the bullets than having their precious British ships that could potentially become broken upon first release?

Look, you guys can have no love about WG or Russia, but mind you, they too want to have a room of compassion to enjoy what they are doing. Not because of appeasing Russian audiences just to give you a negative impressions about Russians being a rabid nationalists, that's false.

Also, I'm maybe not a reputable person in here like Lert & LWM, you can disagree with me or don't like me whenever you wish, but I don't care. I just enjoy doing what I like.

I don't care that they are going in game.  I care that they are being classified as cruisers, and lined up against 203mm armed ships as equals.

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1 minute ago, crzyhawk said:

I don't care that they are going in game.  I care that they are being classified as cruisers, and lined up against 203mm armed ships as equals.

Until when Henri IV & Graf Spee came, things has changed.

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4 minutes ago, Xero_Snake said:

Uh huh, I'll keep that in mind

Yea look at the Enterprise, and the Alabama drama. They put EU first and NA last.

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Graf spee has wonky dispersion and only six guns.  Personally I thought that she should have been T7, but I may be a minority on that.  We'll see how much the crummy sigma on the Krondstadt hurts; it doesnt seem to hurt BBs or Scharnhorst much though.

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4 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

Graf spee has wonky dispersion and only six guns.  Personally I thought that she should have been T7, but I may be a minority on that.  We'll see how much the crummy sigma on the Krondstadt hurts; it doesnt seem to hurt BBs or Scharnhorst much though.

Unless if get down to less than 7.0km, Kronshtadt's & Stalingrad's 305mm guns can actually penetrate BB belt armors. Like Scharnhorst's 28 cm guns, but overall more powerful.

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40 minutes ago, Xero_Snake said:

 

Your misunderstanding what the rage is actually about, it's not as much the whole "papership" concept again. It is the fact that this battlecruiser is being classified as a cruiser and as a result completely upending the matchmaking at higher tiers and doing a serious diservice to Hood who is a true real life battlecruiser that is classified as a battleship. Nevermind the fact that Kronshtadt will have 12 inch guns and more health then an IOWA an actual tier IX battleship. It is a completely broken, idiotic and unnecessary idea that should be sent the way of Akagi, gone and forgotten. @Lert you agree with me on this?

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2 minutes ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

Your misunderstanding what the rage is actually about, it's not as much the whole "papership" concept again. It is the fact that this battlecruiser is being classified as a cruiser and as a result completely upending the matchmaking at higher tiers and doing a serious diservice to Hood who is a true real life battlecruiser that is classified as a battleship. Nevermind the fact that Kronshtadt will have 12 inch guns and more health then an IOWA an actual tier IX battleship. It is a completely broken, idiotic and unnecessary idea that should be sent the way of Akagi, gone and forgotten. @Lert you agree with me on this?

Hood is properly categorized in WoWS.

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8 minutes ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

Your misunderstanding what the rage is actually about, it's not as much the whole "papership" concept again. It is the fact that this battlecruiser is being classified as a cruiser and as a result completely upending the matchmaking at higher tiers and doing a serious diservice to Hood who is a true real life battlecruiser that is classified as a battleship. Nevermind the fact that Kronshtadt will have 12 inch guns and more health then an IOWA an actual tier IX battleship. It is a completely broken, idiotic and unnecessary idea that should be sent the way of Akagi, gone and forgotten. @Lert you agree with me on this?

Given the fragile nature of a cruiser, I don't see the problem giving much more health pool than Moskva. If the ship so big with fragile armor & probably with mediocre maneuverability, what's the point playing it with low survivalibility? Especially Stalingrad that has an armor much thinner than Kronshtadt.

And mind you, the Soviets have a different naval terminology in mind than the West. Something people did not understood well. While Moskva was the medium cruiser, Kronshtadt & Stalingrad were large cruisers. Despite the look of a battlecruiser, the speed, armor & probably their naval roles align with the cruiser category. The same can be said to the modern German counterparts like the O-klasse.

Edited by Xero_Snake
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Just now, Helstrem said:

Hood is properly categorized in WoWS.

Yes but that is the point, why is Hood a BB while the Kronshtadt being made a cruiser? As a cruiser the Kronshtadt will completely wreak the matchmaker, it is a cruiser with 12 inch guns, more health then an Iowa, defensive AA and this is assumed to be equal to the Baltimore and Ibuki.....Yah no. This tier IX battleship should be classified as such and not be put in the game as is at all. Either make it a battleship or get rid of it like Akagi.

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41 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

I don't care that they are going in game.  I care that they are being classified as cruisers, and lined up against 203mm armed ships as equals.

Take a look at the numbers and you might find that the 305mm armament, with current stats, are horrendous compared to the 203mm armed cruisers. Kronshtadt has a whopping 113k HE DPM and no overmatch capabilities on her AP, combined with absolutely horrible dispersion. The only thing the ship has going for it is the stupid HP pool.

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3 minutes ago, Xero_Snake said:

Given the fragile nature of a cruiser, I don't see the problem giving much more health pool than Moskva. If the ship so big with fragile armor & probably with mediocre maneuverability, what's the point playing it with low survivalibility? Especially Stalingrad that has an armor much thinner than Kronshtadt.

Does not [edited]matter, by the matchmaker Wargaming is saying that this ship is equal to the Baltimore and Ibuki......With 12 inch guns, more health then an Iowa, and defensive AA. No this ship completely wreaks the matchmaker and should not come into the game as a cruiser, as a Battleship? Yes. As a cruiser, [edited] no. It is a completely ludicrous idea that should be deeply reevaluated. 

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we'll see.  That horrible dispersion doesnt hurt battleships much.

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1 minute ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

Does not [edited]matter, by the matchmaker Wargaming is saying that this ship is equal to the Baltimore and Ibuki......With 12 inch guns, more health then an Iowa, and defensive AA. No this ship completely wreaks the matchmaker and should not come into the game as a cruiser, as a Battleship? Yes. As a cruiser, [edited] no. It is a completely ludicrous idea that should be deeply reevaluated. 

Did you even see the naval terminology part about large cruiser? I think you should tell that to their ancestors.

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9 minutes ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

Nevermind the fact that Kronshtadt will have 12 inch guns and more health then an IOWA an actual tier IX battleship.

Allow me to speak on this. She has so much HP because she is using the cruiser HP formula. Alaska with such weighs in around 74k HP, nearly as much as Iowa as well.

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Most of all, you should also first understand the design concept behind Kronshtadt. WG placed both Kronshtadt & Stalingrad under the cruiser category for a reason. I dare you to do a bit of homework.

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9 minutes ago, Xero_Snake said:

Most of all, you should also first understand the design concept behind Kronshtadt. WG placed both Kronshtadt & Stalingrad under the cruiser category for a reason. I dare you to do a bit of homework.

Then why not Alaska? Checks all the boxes and will get loads more cash for being so anticipated.

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21 minutes ago, Xero_Snake said:

And mind you, the Soviets have a different naval terminology in mind than the West. Something people did not understood well. While Moskva was the medium cruiser, Kronshtadt & Stalingrad were large cruisers. Despite the look of a battlecruiser, the speed, armor & probably their naval roles align with the cruiser category. The same can be said to the modern German counterparts like the O-klasse.

Since when do real-life characterizations of ships matter in an arcade game? 

If WG followed the intentions of the real-life designers and navies, please explain how RN CLs have a gimmicky smoke discharger and lack of HE shells as their main "flavors". 

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22 minutes ago, Xero_Snake said:

Did you even see the naval terminology part about large cruiser? I think you should tell that to their ancestors.

Large cruiser or not she can't be be put in the game as one she is far too superior to any competition. She breaks the MM that is the whole point. Papership or not is not the issue I'm angry about or the terminology, I'm angry about the affect she is going to have on the Matchmaker. 

22 minutes ago, Doomlock said:

Allow me to speak on this. She has so much HP because she is using the cruiser HP formula. Alaska with such weighs in around 74k HP, nearly as much as Iowa as well.

Yes Doomlock I know that, but the Matchmaker has her as a cruiser, so she is considered equal to the Baltimore and the Ibuki. That is not fair in any way at all. She completely breaks the MM. The health pool is upsetting but not my real point of anger, it is the horrible effect she is going to have on the MM that upsets me so much about this.

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45 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

we'll see.  That horrible dispersion doesnt hurt battleships much.

Currently it's about as accurate as the GK. For a ship that seems like it will be sitting bow-on like a Moskva would, it doesn't sound that appealing to me.

I can understand the gripes about not implementing real ships over paper ones, but if Alaska was released like this there would be uproar of a different kind. Let the Soviets take the hit first.

Edited by Flashtirade
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1 hour ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

Large cruiser or not she can't be be put in the game as one she is far too superior to any competition. She breaks the MM that is the whole point. Papership or not is not the issue I'm angry about or the terminology, I'm angry about the affect she is going to have on the Matchmaker. 

Stop goddamn assuming that a ship, which we know nothing about how it plays, is going to cause any kind of upset on the MM. You have no basis for this.

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Just now, Akeno017 said:

Stop goddamn assuming that a ship, which we know nothing about how it plays, is going to cause any kind of upset on the MM. You have no basis for this.

12 inch guns, defensive AA and, more health then an Iowa. And MM says that it is even to a Baltimore and an Ibuki. Yah no, if it was put in as a Battleship,  I have no problem. As a cruiser though it is completely overpowered and should not be put in the game.

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1 minute ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

12 inch guns, defensive AA and, more health then an Iowa. And MM says that it is even to a Baltimore and an Ibuki. Yah no, if it was put in as a Battleship,  I have no problem. As a cruiser though it is completely overpowered and should not be put in the game.

It has 1.8sigma,, and those guns are tiny for a T9, when your seeing 16 and 18inch guns of battleships.

This ship is a 1st off and so its bound to have some teething problems in terms of balance, but that doest mean it isn't going to come out stupidly overpowered. You been playing long enough to know this.

We already have proven that hybrids can work, Graf Spee is a love or hate ship, and DoYs first iteration was enjoyed by most CCs who tested it.

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